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Today's Daf Yomi

July 21, 2015 | ה׳ באב תשע״ה

  • This month's learning is sponsored by the Hadran Women of Silver Spring in memory of Nicki Toys, Nechama bat Shmuel Tzadok.

  • Masechet Nedarim is sponsored by Aviva and Benny Adler in honor of our mother Lorraine Kahane and in loving memory of our parents Joseph Kahane z"l, Miriam and Ari Adler z"l.

  • This month’s learning is sponsored by Shlomo and Amalia Klapper in honor of the birth of Chiyenna Yochana, named after her great-great-grandmother, Chiyenna Kossovsky.

Nedarim 58

כל דבר שיש לו מתירין כגון טבל ומעשר שני והקדש וחדש לא נתנו בהן חכמים שיעור וכל דבר שאין לו מתירין כגון תרומה ותרומת מעשר וחלה וערלה וכלאי הכרם נתנו בהם חכמים שיעור

For any item that can become permitted, i.e., a forbidden object whose prohibition can or will lapse, for example, untithed produce that can be permitted through tithing, and second tithe that is permitted through redemption or bringing it to Jerusalem (Deuteronomy 14:24–26), and consecrated items that are also permitted through redemption, and produce of the new crop that is permitted after the sacrifice of the omer offering (Leviticus 23:14), the Sages did not determine a measure for their neutralization, and no mixture with any quantity of permitted items neutralizes their prohibition. And for any item that cannot become permitted, for example, teruma, and teruma of the tithe, and ḥalla (Numbers 15:20–21); fruit of a tree during the first three years after its planting [orla]; and forbidden food crops in a vineyard (Deuteronomy 22:9), the Sages determined a measure for their neutralization.

אמרו לו והלא שביעית אין לה מתירין ולא נתנו בה חכמים שיעור דתנן השביעית אוסרת כל שהוא במינה אמר להן אף אני לא אמרתי אלא לביעור

The Rabbis said to Rabbi Shimon: But isn’t Sabbatical-Year produce an item that cannot become permitted, and nevertheless, the Sages did not determine a measure for its neutralization, as we learned in a mishna (Shevi’it 7:7): The Sabbatical-Year produce prohibits permitted produce of its own species with which it is mixed in any amount. Rabbi Shimon said to them: I too said that Sabbatical-Year produce prohibits permitted produce in a mixture and permitted growths that develop from it only with regard to the removal of the produce. Sabbatical-Year produce may be eaten only as long as produce of that species remains in the field, after which it must be removed from one’s possession. Since it is permitted to eat the produce before that time, its legal status during this period is that of an item that can become permitted.

אבל לאכילה בנותן טעם ודלמא הא נמי לחומרא שאני

However, with regard to the permissibility of eating Sabbatical-Year produce after the time of removal has passed, when eating that produce is prohibited, the Sages determined a measure for their neutralization. The mixture is forbidden only if the measure of that produce is enough to impart flavor to the mixture. Apparently, permitted growths can neutralize the prohibition of the original item. The Gemara rejects the proof: And perhaps here too, it is different when the ruling is a stringency. In this case, the stringency is that the original item is sacred with the sanctity of the Sabbatical Year. However, here too, there is no proof that the same would be true in cases where the result is a leniency.

אלא מן הדא פשטה דתנן בצלים שירדו עליהם גשמים וצמחו אם היו עלין שלהן שחורין אסורין הוריקו מותרין

Rather, Yishmael of Kefar Yamma resolved his dilemma from this source, as we learned in a mishna (Shevi’it 6:3): With regard to sixth-year onions upon which rain fell during the Sabbatical Year, and they sprouted, if their leaves were black [sheḥorin], i.e., dark green, an indication of fresh, recent growth, the onions are forbidden as Sabbatical-Year growth. If their leaves turned green [horiku], i.e., lighter and yellower, and appeared withered, the onions are permitted, as they are considered a product of the sixth year.

רבי חנניא בן אנטיגנוס אומר אם יכולין ליתלש בעלין שלהן אסורין וכנגדן למוצאי שביעית מותרין למימרא דגידולי היתר מעלין את האיסור ודלמא במדוכנין

Rabbi Ḥanina ben Antigonus says: There is a different indicator; if the plants can be uprooted by their leaves, clearly the leaves are fresh and recent, and they are forbidden. And in the parallel situation, if that indicator was discovered in a Sabbatical-Year onion that sprouted at the conclusion of the Sabbatical Year, i.e., during the eighth year, the onions are permitted. The Gemara asks: Is this to say that one may conclude from here that permitted growth neutralizes the prohibition of the original plant? The Gemara rejects this conclusion: And perhaps the halakha is with regard to crushed [medukhanin], pounded onions, and the reason that the prohibition of the original plant is neutralized is not that the permitted growth neutralizes the prohibition, but that it is no longer fit for consumption.

אלא מן הדא דתניא

Rather, the dilemma can be resolved from this source; as it is taught in a baraita:

המנכש עם הכותי בחסיות אוכל מהן אכילת עראי ומעשרן ודאי

One who weeds ḥasayot with a Samaritan may eat a casual meal from them without tithing, as any untithed produce may be eaten in the framework of a casual meal. And when he completes the labor on the ḥasayot, places them into a pile, and they require tithing, he tithes them as produce that is definitely obligated in tithing, not as doubtfully tithed produce, as the assumption is that the Samaritan did not tithe the ḥasayot.

רבי שמעון בן אלעזר אומר אם ישראל חשוד על השביעית למוצאי שביעית מותר למימרא דגידולי היתר מעלין את האיסור ודלמא בדבר שזרעו כלה הא תניא אלו הן חסיות כגון הלוף השום והבצלים

Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: If the ḥasayot belong to a Jew who is suspect about observance of the Sabbatical Year, at the conclusion of the Sabbatical Year it is permitted to weed with him, as there is no concern that there might be Sabbatical-Year sanctity. The Gemara asks: Is this to say that the permitted growths of the eighth year neutralize the prohibition, and that is why there is no concern about Sabbatical-Year sanctity? The Gemara rejects that inference: And perhaps the tanna is speaking with regard to an item whose seeds cease after it is sown, whose growths neutralize the original prohibition? The Gemara rejects that possibility: Isn’t it taught in a baraita: These are ḥasayot, for example, arum, garlic, and onions, whose seeds do not cease?

ודלמא במדוכנין חשוד על השביעית קתני ודלמא בתערובת המנכש קתני

The Gemara asks: And perhaps the tanna is speaking with regard to plants that were crushed before they sprouted growths? The Gemara answers: It is the case of one who is suspect about observance of the Sabbatical Year, that is taught in the baraita, and one who is suspect would not bother to eliminate the prohibition by crushing it. The Gemara asks: And perhaps the tanna is speaking with regard to a mixture of forbidden ḥasayot and permitted ones, and the reason that it is permitted is that the prohibition was neutralized by the majority of permitted ḥasayot? The Gemara answers: One who weeds, is taught in the baraita, indicating that he is eating the leaves as he weeds them, leaving no opportunity for the ḥasayot to be mixed with others.

לימא תיהוי תיובתיה דרבי יוחנן ודרבי יונתן אמר רבי יצחק שניא שביעית הואיל ואיסורה על ידי קרקע בטילתה נמי על ידי קרקע

The Gemara suggests: Let us say that this is a conclusive refutation of the opinions of Rabbi Yoḥanan and Rabbi Yonatan, who stated regarding orla and food crops in a vineyard that their permitted growth does not neutralize the prohibition of the original fruit or food crops respectively. Rabbi Yitzḥak said: The Sabbatical-Year produce is different. Since its prohibition is engendered by means of the ground, its nullification is effected by means of the ground as well. The prohibition can be neutralized by means of the growth that results from replanting the forbidden plant in a permitted manner.

הרי מעשר דאיסורו על ידי קרקע ואין בטילתו על ידי קרקע דתניא ליטרא מעשר טבל שזרעה בקרקע והשביחה והרי היא כעשר ליטרין חייבת במעשר ובשביעית ואותה ליטרא מעשר עליה ממקום אחר לפי חשבון

The Gemara asks: Isn’t there the case of tithe, whose prohibition is engendered by means of the ground, but its nullification is not effected by means of the ground? As it is taught in a baraita: With regard to a litra of untithed first tithe from which the teruma of the tithe was not taken, which one sowed in the ground, and it grew and it is now approximately ten litra, that additional growth is obligated to have tithe taken and is subject to the halakhot of Sabbatical-Year produce. And with regard to that original litra of untithed first tithe that he sowed, one tithes for it from produce in a different place, and not from the litra itself, based on a calculation of how much teruma of the tithe needed to be taken from that litra. Apparently, the growth that results from sowing the first tithe in the ground does not neutralize its prohibition.

  • This month's learning is sponsored by the Hadran Women of Silver Spring in memory of Nicki Toys, Nechama bat Shmuel Tzadok.

  • Masechet Nedarim is sponsored by Aviva and Benny Adler in honor of our mother Lorraine Kahane and in loving memory of our parents Joseph Kahane z"l, Miriam and Ari Adler z"l.

  • This month’s learning is sponsored by Shlomo and Amalia Klapper in honor of the birth of Chiyenna Yochana, named after her great-great-grandmother, Chiyenna Kossovsky.

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Nedarim 58

כל דבר שיש לו מתירין כגון טבל ומעשר שני והקדש וחדש לא נתנו בהן חכמים שיעור וכל דבר שאין לו מתירין כגון תרומה ותרומת מעשר וחלה וערלה וכלאי הכרם נתנו בהם חכמים שיעור

For any item that can become permitted, i.e., a forbidden object whose prohibition can or will lapse, for example, untithed produce that can be permitted through tithing, and second tithe that is permitted through redemption or bringing it to Jerusalem (Deuteronomy 14:24–26), and consecrated items that are also permitted through redemption, and produce of the new crop that is permitted after the sacrifice of the omer offering (Leviticus 23:14), the Sages did not determine a measure for their neutralization, and no mixture with any quantity of permitted items neutralizes their prohibition. And for any item that cannot become permitted, for example, teruma, and teruma of the tithe, and ḥalla (Numbers 15:20–21); fruit of a tree during the first three years after its planting [orla]; and forbidden food crops in a vineyard (Deuteronomy 22:9), the Sages determined a measure for their neutralization.

אמרו לו והלא שביעית אין לה מתירין ולא נתנו בה חכמים שיעור דתנן השביעית אוסרת כל שהוא במינה אמר להן אף אני לא אמרתי אלא לביעור

The Rabbis said to Rabbi Shimon: But isn’t Sabbatical-Year produce an item that cannot become permitted, and nevertheless, the Sages did not determine a measure for its neutralization, as we learned in a mishna (Shevi’it 7:7): The Sabbatical-Year produce prohibits permitted produce of its own species with which it is mixed in any amount. Rabbi Shimon said to them: I too said that Sabbatical-Year produce prohibits permitted produce in a mixture and permitted growths that develop from it only with regard to the removal of the produce. Sabbatical-Year produce may be eaten only as long as produce of that species remains in the field, after which it must be removed from one’s possession. Since it is permitted to eat the produce before that time, its legal status during this period is that of an item that can become permitted.

אבל לאכילה בנותן טעם ודלמא הא נמי לחומרא שאני

However, with regard to the permissibility of eating Sabbatical-Year produce after the time of removal has passed, when eating that produce is prohibited, the Sages determined a measure for their neutralization. The mixture is forbidden only if the measure of that produce is enough to impart flavor to the mixture. Apparently, permitted growths can neutralize the prohibition of the original item. The Gemara rejects the proof: And perhaps here too, it is different when the ruling is a stringency. In this case, the stringency is that the original item is sacred with the sanctity of the Sabbatical Year. However, here too, there is no proof that the same would be true in cases where the result is a leniency.

אלא מן הדא פשטה דתנן בצלים שירדו עליהם גשמים וצמחו אם היו עלין שלהן שחורין אסורין הוריקו מותרין

Rather, Yishmael of Kefar Yamma resolved his dilemma from this source, as we learned in a mishna (Shevi’it 6:3): With regard to sixth-year onions upon which rain fell during the Sabbatical Year, and they sprouted, if their leaves were black [sheḥorin], i.e., dark green, an indication of fresh, recent growth, the onions are forbidden as Sabbatical-Year growth. If their leaves turned green [horiku], i.e., lighter and yellower, and appeared withered, the onions are permitted, as they are considered a product of the sixth year.

רבי חנניא בן אנטיגנוס אומר אם יכולין ליתלש בעלין שלהן אסורין וכנגדן למוצאי שביעית מותרין למימרא דגידולי היתר מעלין את האיסור ודלמא במדוכנין

Rabbi Ḥanina ben Antigonus says: There is a different indicator; if the plants can be uprooted by their leaves, clearly the leaves are fresh and recent, and they are forbidden. And in the parallel situation, if that indicator was discovered in a Sabbatical-Year onion that sprouted at the conclusion of the Sabbatical Year, i.e., during the eighth year, the onions are permitted. The Gemara asks: Is this to say that one may conclude from here that permitted growth neutralizes the prohibition of the original plant? The Gemara rejects this conclusion: And perhaps the halakha is with regard to crushed [medukhanin], pounded onions, and the reason that the prohibition of the original plant is neutralized is not that the permitted growth neutralizes the prohibition, but that it is no longer fit for consumption.

אלא מן הדא דתניא

Rather, the dilemma can be resolved from this source; as it is taught in a baraita:

המנכש עם הכותי בחסיות אוכל מהן אכילת עראי ומעשרן ודאי

One who weeds ḥasayot with a Samaritan may eat a casual meal from them without tithing, as any untithed produce may be eaten in the framework of a casual meal. And when he completes the labor on the ḥasayot, places them into a pile, and they require tithing, he tithes them as produce that is definitely obligated in tithing, not as doubtfully tithed produce, as the assumption is that the Samaritan did not tithe the ḥasayot.

רבי שמעון בן אלעזר אומר אם ישראל חשוד על השביעית למוצאי שביעית מותר למימרא דגידולי היתר מעלין את האיסור ודלמא בדבר שזרעו כלה הא תניא אלו הן חסיות כגון הלוף השום והבצלים

Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: If the ḥasayot belong to a Jew who is suspect about observance of the Sabbatical Year, at the conclusion of the Sabbatical Year it is permitted to weed with him, as there is no concern that there might be Sabbatical-Year sanctity. The Gemara asks: Is this to say that the permitted growths of the eighth year neutralize the prohibition, and that is why there is no concern about Sabbatical-Year sanctity? The Gemara rejects that inference: And perhaps the tanna is speaking with regard to an item whose seeds cease after it is sown, whose growths neutralize the original prohibition? The Gemara rejects that possibility: Isn’t it taught in a baraita: These are ḥasayot, for example, arum, garlic, and onions, whose seeds do not cease?

ודלמא במדוכנין חשוד על השביעית קתני ודלמא בתערובת המנכש קתני

The Gemara asks: And perhaps the tanna is speaking with regard to plants that were crushed before they sprouted growths? The Gemara answers: It is the case of one who is suspect about observance of the Sabbatical Year, that is taught in the baraita, and one who is suspect would not bother to eliminate the prohibition by crushing it. The Gemara asks: And perhaps the tanna is speaking with regard to a mixture of forbidden ḥasayot and permitted ones, and the reason that it is permitted is that the prohibition was neutralized by the majority of permitted ḥasayot? The Gemara answers: One who weeds, is taught in the baraita, indicating that he is eating the leaves as he weeds them, leaving no opportunity for the ḥasayot to be mixed with others.

לימא תיהוי תיובתיה דרבי יוחנן ודרבי יונתן אמר רבי יצחק שניא שביעית הואיל ואיסורה על ידי קרקע בטילתה נמי על ידי קרקע

The Gemara suggests: Let us say that this is a conclusive refutation of the opinions of Rabbi Yoḥanan and Rabbi Yonatan, who stated regarding orla and food crops in a vineyard that their permitted growth does not neutralize the prohibition of the original fruit or food crops respectively. Rabbi Yitzḥak said: The Sabbatical-Year produce is different. Since its prohibition is engendered by means of the ground, its nullification is effected by means of the ground as well. The prohibition can be neutralized by means of the growth that results from replanting the forbidden plant in a permitted manner.

הרי מעשר דאיסורו על ידי קרקע ואין בטילתו על ידי קרקע דתניא ליטרא מעשר טבל שזרעה בקרקע והשביחה והרי היא כעשר ליטרין חייבת במעשר ובשביעית ואותה ליטרא מעשר עליה ממקום אחר לפי חשבון

The Gemara asks: Isn’t there the case of tithe, whose prohibition is engendered by means of the ground, but its nullification is not effected by means of the ground? As it is taught in a baraita: With regard to a litra of untithed first tithe from which the teruma of the tithe was not taken, which one sowed in the ground, and it grew and it is now approximately ten litra, that additional growth is obligated to have tithe taken and is subject to the halakhot of Sabbatical-Year produce. And with regard to that original litra of untithed first tithe that he sowed, one tithes for it from produce in a different place, and not from the litra itself, based on a calculation of how much teruma of the tithe needed to be taken from that litra. Apparently, the growth that results from sowing the first tithe in the ground does not neutralize its prohibition.

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