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Today's Daf Yomi

January 23, 2018 | ז׳ בשבט תשע״ח

  • This month's learning is sponsored by Sami Groff in honor of Shoshana Keats Jaskoll and Chochmat Nashim.

Avodah Zarah 8

The holidays on which one can’t do business with idol worshippers are specified and details relating to this are discussed.


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רבי יהושע סבר ילפינן ממשה ורבי אליעזר סבר לא ילפינן ממשה שאני משה דרב גובריה וחכמים אומרים לא כדברי זה ולא כדברי זה אלא שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה


Rabbi Yehoshua holds that we derive from the case of Moses that one should first praise God in prayer and only afterward issue personal requests. And Rabbi Eliezer holds that we do not derive from Moses how to act, since Moses is different, as his might is great, i.e., he knew how to pray to God in this order. And the Rabbis say: The halakha is not in accordance with the statement of this Sage, who says that one should issue personal requests before praying, nor is it in accordance with the statement of that Sage, who says that personal requests should follow prayer. Rather, a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer. Therefore, when Naḥum the Mede stated that this is the halakha, he was merely concurring with the opinion of the Rabbis.


אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אמר רב יהודה בריה דרב שמואל בר שילת משמיה דרב אף על פי שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אבל אם בא לומר בסוף כל ברכה וברכה מעין כל ברכה וברכה אומר


With regard to the halakhic ruling, Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: The halakha is that a person requests his own needs during the Amida prayer in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer. Rav Yehuda, son of Rav Shmuel bar Sheilat, says in the name of Rav: Although the Sages said that a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer, that is not the only option. Rather, if he wishes to recite at the conclusion of each and every blessing personal requests that reflect the nature of each and every blessing, he may recite them.


אמר רב חייא בר אשי אמר רב אף על פי שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אם יש לו חולה בתוך ביתו אומר בברכת חולים ואם צריך לפרנסה אומר בברכת השנים


Similarly, Rav Ḥiyya bar Ashi says that Rav says: Although the Sages said that a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer, if he has a sick person in his house he recites a special prayer for him during the blessing of the sick. And if he is in need of sustenance, he recites a request during the blessing of the years.


אמר רבי יהושע בן לוי אף על פי שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אבל אם בא לומר אחר תפלתו אפילו כסדר יום הכפורים אומר


Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi says: Although the Sages said that a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer; but if one wishes to recite prayers and supplications after finishing his Amida prayer, even if his personal requests are as long as the order of the confession of Yom Kippur, he may recite them.


מתני׳ ואלו אידיהן של גוים קלנדא וסטרנורא וקרטיסים ויום גנוסיא של מלכיהם ויום הלידה ויום המיתה דברי רבי מאיר וחכמים אומרים כל מיתה שיש בה שריפה יש בה עבודה זרה ושאין בה שריפה אין בה עבודה זרה אבל יום תגלחת זקנו ובלוריתו ויום שעלה בו מן הים ויום שיצא מבית האסורין וגוי שעשה משתה לבנו אינו אסור אלא אותו היום ואותו האיש בלבד


MISHNA: And these are the festivals of gentiles: Kalenda, Saturnalia, and Kratesis, and the day of the festival of their kings, and the birthday of the king, and the anniversary of the day of the death of the king. This is the statement of Rabbi Meir. And the Rabbis say: Every death that includes public burning is a festival that includes idol worship, and any death that does not include public burning is not a festival that includes idol worship. But in the case of the day of shaving his, i.e., a gentile’s, beard and his locks, and the day of his ascent from the sea, and the day that he left prison, and also in the case of a gentile who prepared a wedding feast for his son and celebrates on that day, engaging in business is prohibited only on that day and with that man.


גמ׳ אמר רב חנן בר רבא קלנדא שמונה ימים אחר תקופה סטרנורא שמונה ימים לפני תקופה וסימנך אחור וקדם צרתני וגו׳


GEMARA: Rav Ḥanan bar Rava says: When are these festivals celebrated? Kalenda is celebrated during the eight days after the winter solstice, and Saturnalia is celebrated during the eight days before the winter solstice. And your mnemonic to remember which festival is that the one that occurs after the solstice is mentioned first in the mishna, and the festival that takes place before the solstice is mentioned after, as in the verse: “You have hemmed me in behind and before, and laid Your Hand upon me” (Psalms 139:5), where the word “before” appears after the term “behind.”


תנו רבנן לפי שראה אדם הראשון יום שמתמעט והולך אמר אוי לי שמא בשביל שסרחתי עולם חשוך בעדי וחוזר לתוהו ובוהו וזו היא מיתה שנקנסה עלי מן השמים עמד וישב שמונה ימים בתענית [ובתפלה]


With regard to the dates of these festivals, the Sages taught: When Adam the first man saw that the day was progressively diminishing, as the days become shorter from the autumnal equinox until the winter solstice, he did not yet know that this is a normal phenomenon, and therefore he said: Woe is me; perhaps because I sinned the world is becoming dark around me and will ultimately return to the primordial state of chaos and disorder. And this is the death that was sentenced upon me from Heaven, as it is written: “And to dust shall you return” (Genesis 3:19). He arose and spent eight days in fasting and in prayer.


כיון שראה תקופת טבת וראה יום שמאריך והולך אמר מנהגו של עולם הוא הלך ועשה שמונה ימים טובים לשנה האחרת עשאן לאלו ולאלו ימים טובים הוא קבעם לשם שמים והם קבעום לשם עבודה זרה


Once he saw that the season of Tevet, i.e., the winter solstice, had arrived, and saw that the day was progressively lengthening after the solstice, he said: Clearly, the days become shorter and then longer, and this is the order of the world. He went and observed a festival for eight days. Upon the next year, he observed both these eight days on which he had fasted on the previous year, and these eight days of his celebration, as days of festivities. He, Adam, established these festivals for the sake of Heaven, but they, the gentiles of later generations, established them for the sake of idol worship.


בשלמא למאן דאמר בתשרי נברא העולם יומי זוטי חזא יומי אריכי אכתי לא חזא אלא למאן דאמר בניסן נברא העולם הא חזא ליה יומי זוטי ויומי אריכי דהוי זוטי כולי האי לא חזא


The Gemara raises a difficulty: Granted, according to the one who says that the world was created in the month of Tishrei, one can understand why Adam believed that the days were becoming shorter as part of his punishment, as he saw the short days of the winter and had not yet seen the long days of summer. But according to the one who says that the world was created in the month of Nisan, he had already seen the difference between the short days and the long days, as the days in the month of Nisan become progressively longer with the passage of time. The Gemara answers: Although Adam had experienced short days, he had not seen days that were this short, as in the days before the winter solstice.


תנו רבנן יום שנברא בו אדם הראשון כיון ששקעה עליו חמה אמר אוי לי שבשביל שסרחתי עולם חשוך בעדי ויחזור עולם לתוהו ובוהו וזו היא מיתה שנקנסה עלי מן השמים היה יושב בתענית ובוכה כל הלילה וחוה בוכה כנגדו כיון שעלה עמוד השחר אמר מנהגו של עולם הוא עמד והקריב שור שקרניו קודמין לפרסותיו שנאמר ותיטב לה׳ משור פר מקרן מפריס


The Sages taught: On the day that Adam the first man was created, when the sun set upon him he said: Woe is me, as because I sinned, the world is becoming dark around me, and the world will return to the primordial state of chaos and disorder. And this is the death that was sentenced upon me from Heaven. He spent all night fasting and crying, and Eve was crying opposite him. Once dawn broke, he said: Evidently, the sun sets and night arrives, and this is the order of the world. He arose and sacrificed a bull whose horns preceded its hoofs in the order that they were created, as it is stated: “And it shall please the Lord better than a bullock that has horns and hoofs” (Psalms 69:32). This verse is referring to the one particular bull whose horns preceded its hoofs.


ואמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל שור שהקריב אדם הראשון קרן אחת היתה לו במצחו שנאמר ותיטב לה׳ משור פר מקרן מפריס מקרין תרתי משמע אמר רב נחמן בר יצחק מקרן כתיב


And Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: The bull that Adam the first man sacrificed had one horn in its forehead, as it is stated: “And it shall please the Lord better than a bullock that has horns [makrin] and hooves.” The Gemara raises a difficulty: Isn’t makrin plural, which indicates two horns? Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak says: Mikkeren is written, i.e., the letter yod is missing from the word, indicating that there was only one horn.


אמר רב מתנה רומי שעשתה קלנדא וכל העיירות הסמוכות לה משתעבדות לה אותן עיירות אסורות או מותרות רבי יהושע בן לוי אמר קלנדא אסורה לכל היא רבי יוחנן אמר אין אסורה אלא לעובדיה בלבד


§ Rav Mattana says: Since Rome established the festival of Kalenda on a specific date, and all of the nearby towns are ruled by Rome, i.e., they pay their tax to Rome and provide its needs but do not themselves celebrate the festival, is it prohibited or permitted to engage in business transactions with the gentile residents of those towns? Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi says: It is prohibited to engage in business during the time of the Kalenda with everyone. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: It is prohibited to engage in business only with its worshippers, whereas it is permitted to engage in business transactions with gentiles who do not celebrate the festival.


תנא כוותיה דרבי יוחנן אף על פי שאמרו רומי עשתה קלנדא וכל עיירות הסמוכות לה משתעבדות לה היא עצמה אינה אסורה אלא לעובדיה בלבד


The Sage taught in a baraita in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan: Although they said that Rome has established the festival of Kalenda and all of the nearby towns are ruled by Rome, it is prohibited to engage in business only with its worshippers.


סטרנליא וקרטסים ויום גנוסיא של מלכיהם ויום שהומלך בו מלך לפניו אסור אחריו מותר וגוי שעשה (בו) משתה לבנו אין אסור אלא אותו היום ואותו האיש


The baraita continues: With regard to the festivals Saturnalia and Kratesis, and the day of the festival of their kings, and the day on which the king was crowned, the halakha is that before the festival it is prohibited to engage in business transactions, whereas after the festival it is permitted. But in the case of a gentile who prepared a feast for his son and celebrates on that day, engaging in business is prohibited only on that day itself and with that man.


אמר רב אשי אף אנן נמי תנינא דקתני יום תגלחת זקנו ובלוריתו ויום שעלה בו מן הים ויום שיצא בו מבית האסורין אין אסור אלא אותו היום בלבד ואותו האיש


Rav Ashi said: We learn in the mishna as well in accordance with Rabbi Yoḥanan’s statement that the prohibition applies only to gentiles who celebrate the festival, not to people who are ruled by them. As the mishna teaches: With regard to the day of shaving his beard and his locks, and the day of his ascent from the sea, and the day that he left prison, engaging in business is prohibited only on that day and with that man.


בשלמא אותו היום לאפוקי לפניו ולאחריו אלא אותו האיש לאפוקי מאי לאו לאפוקי משעבדיו שמע מינה


Rav Ashi explains the proof: Granted, the mishna specifies that the prohibition is limited to that day alone, in order to exclude the days before and after it. But when it states that the prohibition applies only to that man, what does the mishna exclude? Obviously the prohibition does not extend to all gentiles, as it is a personal festival. Doesn’t the mishna’s ruling serve to exclude those who are ruled by him? Therefore, conclude from the language of the mishna that a prohibition extends only to gentiles who celebrate the festival, not to those who are ruled by them.


תניא רבי ישמעאל אומר ישראל שבחוצה לארץ עובדי עבודה זרה בטהרה הן כיצד גוי שעשה משתה לבנו וזימן כל היהודים שבעירו אף על פי שאוכלין משלהן ושותין משלהן ושמש שלהן עומד לפניהם מעלה עליהם הכתוב כאילו אכלו מזבחי מתים שנאמר וקרא לך ואכלת מזבחו


It is taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yishmael says: Jews who are outside of Eretz Yisrael are considered to engage in idol worship in purity, i.e., unwittingly. How does this occur? In the case of a gentile who prepared a feast for the marriage of his son, and invited all of the Jews in his town, even though they eat of their own kosher food and drink of their own kosher beverages, and their own attendant stands before them, the verse ascribes guilt to them as though they ate of the offerings to the dead, i.e., idols, as it is stated: “And sacrifice to their gods, and they call you, and you eat of their sacrifice” (Exodus 34:15). Since Jews participate in a feast in which the gentile sacrifices offerings to his idol, it is as though they partook of the offering themselves.


ואימא עד דאכיל אמר רבא אם כן נימא קרא ואכלת מזבחו מאי וקרא לך משעת קריאה הלכך


The Gemara asks: But why not say that the verse is criticizing the Jews only once they eat from the sacrifice? Rava said: If that is what is meant, let the verse say only: And you eat of their sacrifice. What is meant by the additional phrase: “And they call you”? This indicates that the prohibition occurs from the time of the call. Therefore,


כל תלתין יומין בין אמר ליה מחמת הלולא ובין לא אמר ליה מחמת הלולא אסור מכאן ואילך אי אמר ליה מחמת הלולא אסור ואי לא אמר ליה מחמת הלולא שרי


during all the thirty days that follow the wedding celebration, if the gentile invites a Jew to a feast, whether he said to the Jew that the feast is due to the wedding celebration or whether he did not say to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, it is prohibited to attend, as it is assumed the festivity is part of the wedding celebration. From this point forward, if he said to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, it is prohibited to participate, but if he did not say to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, it is permitted to do so.


וכי אמר ליה מחמת הלולא עד אימת אמר רב פפא עד תריסר ירחי שתא ומעיקרא מאימת אסור אמר רב פפא משמיה דרבא מכי רמו שערי באסינתי


The Gemara asks: And in a case where he said to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, until when is the feast assumed to be connected to idol worship? Rav Pappa said: Until twelve months of the year have passed since the wedding. The Gemara asks: And initially, before the wedding, from when is it prohibited? Rav Pappa said in the name of Rava: From the time when they cast barley into the mortars [ba’asintei] to prepare beer for the wedding.


ולבתר תריסר ירחי שתא שרי והא רב יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא איקלע לבי ההוא גוי לבתר תריסר ירחי שתא ושמעיה דאודי ופירש ולא אכל שאני רב יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא דאדם חשוב הוא


The Gemara asks: And after the twelve months of the year have passed since the wedding, is it always permitted to participate in a feast? But Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Mesharshiyya, happened to come to the house of a certain gentile after twelve months of the year had passed since his son’s wedding, and he heard the gentile giving thanks to his idol for the marriage of his son, and he withdrew from the feast and did not eat there. The Gemara answers: Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Mesharshiyya, is different, as he is an important person and therefore his presence caused the gentile to rejoice.


וקרטסים וכו׳ מאי קרטסים אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל יום שתפסה בו רומי מלכות והתניא קרטסים ויום שתפסה בו רומי מלכות אמר רב יוסף שתי תפיסות תפסה רומי אחת בימי קלפטרא מלכתא ואחת שתפסה בימי יונים


§ The mishna teaches: And Kratesis, and the day of the festival of their kings. The Gemara asks: What is the festival of Kratesis? Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: It commemorates the day when Rome seized control of an empire. The Gemara asks: But isn’t it taught in a baraita: Two festivals are Kratesis and the day when Rome seized control of an empire? This indi-cates that Kratesis and the day when Rome seized control of an empire are two separate festivals. Rav Yosef said: On two separate occasions Rome seized control of an empire. One occurred in the days of Queen Cleopatra, when they conquered Egypt, and one happened much earlier, when Rome seized control in the days of the Greeks.


דכי אתא רב דימי אמר תלתין ותרין קרבי עבדו רומאי בהדי יונאי ולא יכלו להו עד דשתפינהו לישראל בהדייהו והכי אתנו בהדייהו אי מינן מלכי מנייכו הפרכי אי מנייכו מלכי מינן הפרכי


The Gemara elaborates: As when Rav Dimi came from Eretz Yisrael he said: The Romans waged thirty-two battles with the Greeks but were unable to defeat them, until they formed a partnership with the Jewish people and finally vanquished the Greeks. And this is the condition that they stipulated with the Jewish people: If the kings come from among us, the governors [hiparkhei] will come from among you; and if the kings come from among you, the governors will come from among us.


ושלחו להו רומאי ליונאי עד האידנא עבידנא בקרבא השתא נעביד בדינא מרגלית ואבן טובה איזו מהן יעשה בסיס לחבירו שלחו להו מרגלית לאבן טובה


And the Romans sent the following message to the Greeks: Until now, we attempted to resolve our conflict through fighting battles; now, let us settle the matter by means of judgment. In the case of a pearl and a precious stone, which one of them should serve as a base for the other? The Greeks sent them in response: The pearl should serve as the base for the precious stone, which has a greater value.


אבן טובה ואינך איזו מהן יעשה בסיס לחבירו אבן טובה לאינך אינך וספר תורה איזו מהן יעשה בסיס לחבירו אינך לספר תורה


The Romans further inquired: If there was a precious stone and an onyx [innakh], a particularly valuable precious stone, which one of them should serve as a base for the other? The Greeks answered: The precious stone should serve as the base for the onyx. Once again, the Romans asked: In the case of an onyx and a Torah scroll, which one of them should be serve as a base for the other? The Greeks responded: The onyx should serve as the base for the Torah scroll.


שלחו להו [אם כן] אנן ספר תורה גבן וישראל בהדן כפו להו עשרין ושית שנין קמו להו בהימנותייהו בהדי ישראל מכאן ואילך אישתעבדו בהו


The Romans sent this response to them: If that is so, then you should submit to us, as we have the Torah scroll with us, and the Jewish people are with us. The Romans are akin to the precious stone, and they are allied with the Jewish people who are akin to the onyx, and they possess the Torah scroll. The Romans therefore forced the Greeks to surrender and took over their world dominance. For twenty-six years the Romans stood faithfully with the Jewish people; from that point forward, they subjugated them.


מעיקרא מאי דרוש ולבסוף מאי דרוש מעיקרא דרוש נסעה ונלכה ואלכה לנגדך ולבסוף דרוש יעבר נא אדני לפני עבדו


The Gemara asks: Initially, when the Romans acted faithfully, what verse did they interpret, and ultimately, when they subjugated the Jews, what verse did they interpret? Initially, they interpreted the verse where Esau said to Jacob upon their meeting: “Let us take our journey, and let us go, and I will go before you” (Genesis 33:12). In this verse, Esau equates himself to Jacob, prefiguring the initial Roman treatment of the Jews. And ultimately, they interpreted the verse that recites Jacob’s response to Esau: “Let my lord, I pray you, pass over before his servant” (Genesis 33:14), demonstrating Jacob’s subjugation to Esau, and by extension that of the Jews to Rome.


עשרין ושית שנין דקמו בהימנותייהו בהדי ישראל מנא לן דאמר רב כהנא כשחלה רבי ישמעאל בר יוסי שלחו ליה רבי אמור לנו שנים ושלשה דברים שאמרת לנו משום אביך


The Gemara asks: With regard to the twenty-six years during which the Romans stood faithfully with the Jewish people, from where do we know that this was the case? The Gemara cites a proof. As Rav Kahana says: When Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, fell ill, the Sages sent the following message to him: Our teacher, tell us two or three statements that you once told us in the name of your father, Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta, as we do not remember the statements precisely.


אמר להו מאה ושמנים שנה קודם שנחרב הבית פשטה מלכות הרשעה על ישראל שמונים שנה עד לא חרב הבית גזרו טומאה על ארץ העמים ועל כלי זכוכית ארבעים שנה עד לא חרב הבית גלתה סנהדרין וישבה לה בחנות


Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, said to them the following statements that were passed down to him by his father: One hundred and eighty years before the Second Temple was destroyed, the evil Roman Empire stretched forth over Israel and ruled over them. Eighty years before the Temple was destroyed, the Sages decreed impurity on the land of the nations and on glass vessels. Forty years before the Temple was destroyed, the Sanhedrin was exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone and sat in the store near the Temple Mount.


למאי הלכתא אמר רבי יצחק בר אבדימי לומר שלא דנו דיני קנסות דיני קנסות סלקא דעתך והאמר רב יהודה אמר רב ברם זכור אותו האיש לטוב ורבי יהודה בן בבא שמו שאלמלא הוא נשתכחו דיני קנסות מישראל נשתכחו לגרסינהו


The Gemara asks: With regard to what halakha is it necessary to know where the Sanhedrin would convene? Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Avdimi said: It is necessary in order to say that they no longer judged cases of fines. The Gemara asks: Does it enter your mind that at this point the Sanhedrin no longer judged cases of fines? But doesn’t Rav Yehuda say that Rav says: Indeed [beram], that man will be remembered favorably, and Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava is his name, as had it not been for him the laws of fines would have been forgotten from among the Jewish people. The Gemara challenges that assertion: Would the laws of fines actually have been forgotten? Let the scholars study them, so they will not be forgotten.


אלא בטלו דיני קנסות מישראל שגזרה מלכות הרשעה שמד על ישראל כל הסומך יהרג וכל הנסמך יהרג ועיר שסומכין בה תחרב ותחום שסומכין בו יעקר


Rather, his intention was to say that the laws of fines would have ceased to be implemented from among the Jewish people, as they would not have been able to adjudicate cases involving these halakhot due to a lack of ordained judges. This is because at one time the wicked kingdom of Rome issued decrees of religious persecution against the Jewish people with the aim of abolishing the chain of ordination and the authority of the Sages. They said that anyone who ordains judges will be killed, and anyone who is ordained will be killed, and the city in which they ordain the judges will be destroyed, and the areas around the boundary of the city in which they ordain judges will be uprooted. These measures were intended to discourage the Sages from performing or receiving ordination due to fear for the welfare of the local population.


מה עשה רבי יהודה בן בבא הלך וישב בין שני הרים גדולים ובין שתי עיירות גדולות בין שני תחומי שבת בין אושא לשפרעם וסמך שם חמשה זקנים רבי מאיר ורבי יהודה ורבי יוסי ורבי שמעון ורבי אלעזר בן שמוע ורב אויא מוסיף אף רבי נחמיה


What did Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava do? He went and sat between two large mountains, and between two large cities, and between two Shabbat boundaries: Between Usha and Shefaram, i.e., in a desolate place that was not associated with any particular city so that he would not endanger anyone not directly involved, and there he ordained five Elders, namely: Rabbi Meir, and Rabbi Yehuda, and Rabbi Shimon, and Rabbi Yosei, and Rabbi Elazar ben Shammua. And Rav Avya adds that Rabbi Neḥemya was also among those ordained.


כיון שהכירו בהם אויבים אמר להם בני רוצו אמרו לו רבי ואתה מה תהא עליך אמר להם הריני מוטל לפניהם כאבן שאין לה הופכין אמרו לא זזו משם עד שנעצו לגופו שלש מאות לולניאות של ברזל ועשאוהו לגופו ככברה


When their enemies discovered them, Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava said to the newly ordained rabbis: My sons, run for your lives. They said to him: Our teacher, and what will be with you? Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava was elderly and unable to run. He said to them: In any case, I am cast before them like a stone that cannot be overturned; even if you attempt to assist me I will not be able to escape due to my frailty, but if you do not escape without me you will also be killed. People said about this incident: The Roman soldiers did not move from there until they had inserted three hundred iron spears [lulniot] into his body, making his body appear like a sieve pierced with many holes. It can be inferred from this episode that there were ordained judges who could hear cases of fines for many years after the destruction of the Temple, in contrast to Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Avdimi’s statement.


אמר רב נחמן בר יצחק לא תימא דיני קנסות אלא שלא דנו דיני נפשות


Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak says in explanation: Do not say that after the Sanhedrin was exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone they no longer judged cases of fines; rather, emend the statement to say that they no longer judged cases of capital law, as a court does not have the authority to hear capital cases when the Sanhedrin is not sitting in the Chamber of Hewn Stone.


מאי טעמא כיון דחזו דנפישי להו רוצחין ולא יכלי למידן אמרו מוטב נגלי ממקום למקום כי היכי דלא ליחייבו


The Gemara explains: What is the reason that the members of the Sanhedrin ceased to meet in their proper place and thereby ended the adjudication of capital cases? Once they saw that the murderers were so numerous and they were not able to judge them and punish them with death, they said: It is better that we should be exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone and move from place to place, so that offenders will not be deemed liable to receive the death penalty in a time period when the court does not carry out their sentences.


דכתיב ועשית על פי הדבר אשר יגידו לך מן המקום ההוא מלמד שהמקום גורם


The Gemara explains why a court may not adjudicate capital cases once the Sanhedrin has left the Chamber of Hewn Stone. As it is written: “And you shall do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare to you from that place” (Deuteronomy 17:10). This verse teaches that it is the place where the Sanhedrin resides that causes the judgment to take place. In other words, if the Sanhedrin has abandoned its proper place, the Chamber of Hewn Stone, all courts must cease judging capital cases.


מאה ושמנים ותו לא והתני רבי יוסי ברבי


The Gemara returns to the earlier comment of Rabbi Yishmael in the name of his father Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta, that the Roman Empire ruled over Israel one hundred and eighty years before the second Temple was destroyed. The Gemara asks: Did Rome rule over Israel for one hundred and eighty years before the destruction of the Temple and no more? But didn’t Rabbi Yosei the Great, i.e., Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta himself, teach:


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Avodah Zarah 8

The William Davidson Talmud | Powered by Sefaria

Avodah Zarah 8

רבי יהושע סבר ילפינן ממשה ורבי אליעזר סבר לא ילפינן ממשה שאני משה דרב גובריה וחכמים אומרים לא כדברי זה ולא כדברי זה אלא שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה


Rabbi Yehoshua holds that we derive from the case of Moses that one should first praise God in prayer and only afterward issue personal requests. And Rabbi Eliezer holds that we do not derive from Moses how to act, since Moses is different, as his might is great, i.e., he knew how to pray to God in this order. And the Rabbis say: The halakha is not in accordance with the statement of this Sage, who says that one should issue personal requests before praying, nor is it in accordance with the statement of that Sage, who says that personal requests should follow prayer. Rather, a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer. Therefore, when Naḥum the Mede stated that this is the halakha, he was merely concurring with the opinion of the Rabbis.


אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אמר רב יהודה בריה דרב שמואל בר שילת משמיה דרב אף על פי שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אבל אם בא לומר בסוף כל ברכה וברכה מעין כל ברכה וברכה אומר


With regard to the halakhic ruling, Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: The halakha is that a person requests his own needs during the Amida prayer in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer. Rav Yehuda, son of Rav Shmuel bar Sheilat, says in the name of Rav: Although the Sages said that a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer, that is not the only option. Rather, if he wishes to recite at the conclusion of each and every blessing personal requests that reflect the nature of each and every blessing, he may recite them.


אמר רב חייא בר אשי אמר רב אף על פי שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אם יש לו חולה בתוך ביתו אומר בברכת חולים ואם צריך לפרנסה אומר בברכת השנים


Similarly, Rav Ḥiyya bar Ashi says that Rav says: Although the Sages said that a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer, if he has a sick person in his house he recites a special prayer for him during the blessing of the sick. And if he is in need of sustenance, he recites a request during the blessing of the years.


אמר רבי יהושע בן לוי אף על פי שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אבל אם בא לומר אחר תפלתו אפילו כסדר יום הכפורים אומר


Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi says: Although the Sages said that a person requests his own needs in the blessing ending: Who listens to prayer; but if one wishes to recite prayers and supplications after finishing his Amida prayer, even if his personal requests are as long as the order of the confession of Yom Kippur, he may recite them.


מתני׳ ואלו אידיהן של גוים קלנדא וסטרנורא וקרטיסים ויום גנוסיא של מלכיהם ויום הלידה ויום המיתה דברי רבי מאיר וחכמים אומרים כל מיתה שיש בה שריפה יש בה עבודה זרה ושאין בה שריפה אין בה עבודה זרה אבל יום תגלחת זקנו ובלוריתו ויום שעלה בו מן הים ויום שיצא מבית האסורין וגוי שעשה משתה לבנו אינו אסור אלא אותו היום ואותו האיש בלבד


MISHNA: And these are the festivals of gentiles: Kalenda, Saturnalia, and Kratesis, and the day of the festival of their kings, and the birthday of the king, and the anniversary of the day of the death of the king. This is the statement of Rabbi Meir. And the Rabbis say: Every death that includes public burning is a festival that includes idol worship, and any death that does not include public burning is not a festival that includes idol worship. But in the case of the day of shaving his, i.e., a gentile’s, beard and his locks, and the day of his ascent from the sea, and the day that he left prison, and also in the case of a gentile who prepared a wedding feast for his son and celebrates on that day, engaging in business is prohibited only on that day and with that man.


גמ׳ אמר רב חנן בר רבא קלנדא שמונה ימים אחר תקופה סטרנורא שמונה ימים לפני תקופה וסימנך אחור וקדם צרתני וגו׳


GEMARA: Rav Ḥanan bar Rava says: When are these festivals celebrated? Kalenda is celebrated during the eight days after the winter solstice, and Saturnalia is celebrated during the eight days before the winter solstice. And your mnemonic to remember which festival is that the one that occurs after the solstice is mentioned first in the mishna, and the festival that takes place before the solstice is mentioned after, as in the verse: “You have hemmed me in behind and before, and laid Your Hand upon me” (Psalms 139:5), where the word “before” appears after the term “behind.”


תנו רבנן לפי שראה אדם הראשון יום שמתמעט והולך אמר אוי לי שמא בשביל שסרחתי עולם חשוך בעדי וחוזר לתוהו ובוהו וזו היא מיתה שנקנסה עלי מן השמים עמד וישב שמונה ימים בתענית [ובתפלה]


With regard to the dates of these festivals, the Sages taught: When Adam the first man saw that the day was progressively diminishing, as the days become shorter from the autumnal equinox until the winter solstice, he did not yet know that this is a normal phenomenon, and therefore he said: Woe is me; perhaps because I sinned the world is becoming dark around me and will ultimately return to the primordial state of chaos and disorder. And this is the death that was sentenced upon me from Heaven, as it is written: “And to dust shall you return” (Genesis 3:19). He arose and spent eight days in fasting and in prayer.


כיון שראה תקופת טבת וראה יום שמאריך והולך אמר מנהגו של עולם הוא הלך ועשה שמונה ימים טובים לשנה האחרת עשאן לאלו ולאלו ימים טובים הוא קבעם לשם שמים והם קבעום לשם עבודה זרה


Once he saw that the season of Tevet, i.e., the winter solstice, had arrived, and saw that the day was progressively lengthening after the solstice, he said: Clearly, the days become shorter and then longer, and this is the order of the world. He went and observed a festival for eight days. Upon the next year, he observed both these eight days on which he had fasted on the previous year, and these eight days of his celebration, as days of festivities. He, Adam, established these festivals for the sake of Heaven, but they, the gentiles of later generations, established them for the sake of idol worship.


בשלמא למאן דאמר בתשרי נברא העולם יומי זוטי חזא יומי אריכי אכתי לא חזא אלא למאן דאמר בניסן נברא העולם הא חזא ליה יומי זוטי ויומי אריכי דהוי זוטי כולי האי לא חזא


The Gemara raises a difficulty: Granted, according to the one who says that the world was created in the month of Tishrei, one can understand why Adam believed that the days were becoming shorter as part of his punishment, as he saw the short days of the winter and had not yet seen the long days of summer. But according to the one who says that the world was created in the month of Nisan, he had already seen the difference between the short days and the long days, as the days in the month of Nisan become progressively longer with the passage of time. The Gemara answers: Although Adam had experienced short days, he had not seen days that were this short, as in the days before the winter solstice.


תנו רבנן יום שנברא בו אדם הראשון כיון ששקעה עליו חמה אמר אוי לי שבשביל שסרחתי עולם חשוך בעדי ויחזור עולם לתוהו ובוהו וזו היא מיתה שנקנסה עלי מן השמים היה יושב בתענית ובוכה כל הלילה וחוה בוכה כנגדו כיון שעלה עמוד השחר אמר מנהגו של עולם הוא עמד והקריב שור שקרניו קודמין לפרסותיו שנאמר ותיטב לה׳ משור פר מקרן מפריס


The Sages taught: On the day that Adam the first man was created, when the sun set upon him he said: Woe is me, as because I sinned, the world is becoming dark around me, and the world will return to the primordial state of chaos and disorder. And this is the death that was sentenced upon me from Heaven. He spent all night fasting and crying, and Eve was crying opposite him. Once dawn broke, he said: Evidently, the sun sets and night arrives, and this is the order of the world. He arose and sacrificed a bull whose horns preceded its hoofs in the order that they were created, as it is stated: “And it shall please the Lord better than a bullock that has horns and hoofs” (Psalms 69:32). This verse is referring to the one particular bull whose horns preceded its hoofs.


ואמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל שור שהקריב אדם הראשון קרן אחת היתה לו במצחו שנאמר ותיטב לה׳ משור פר מקרן מפריס מקרין תרתי משמע אמר רב נחמן בר יצחק מקרן כתיב


And Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: The bull that Adam the first man sacrificed had one horn in its forehead, as it is stated: “And it shall please the Lord better than a bullock that has horns [makrin] and hooves.” The Gemara raises a difficulty: Isn’t makrin plural, which indicates two horns? Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak says: Mikkeren is written, i.e., the letter yod is missing from the word, indicating that there was only one horn.


אמר רב מתנה רומי שעשתה קלנדא וכל העיירות הסמוכות לה משתעבדות לה אותן עיירות אסורות או מותרות רבי יהושע בן לוי אמר קלנדא אסורה לכל היא רבי יוחנן אמר אין אסורה אלא לעובדיה בלבד


§ Rav Mattana says: Since Rome established the festival of Kalenda on a specific date, and all of the nearby towns are ruled by Rome, i.e., they pay their tax to Rome and provide its needs but do not themselves celebrate the festival, is it prohibited or permitted to engage in business transactions with the gentile residents of those towns? Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi says: It is prohibited to engage in business during the time of the Kalenda with everyone. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: It is prohibited to engage in business only with its worshippers, whereas it is permitted to engage in business transactions with gentiles who do not celebrate the festival.


תנא כוותיה דרבי יוחנן אף על פי שאמרו רומי עשתה קלנדא וכל עיירות הסמוכות לה משתעבדות לה היא עצמה אינה אסורה אלא לעובדיה בלבד


The Sage taught in a baraita in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan: Although they said that Rome has established the festival of Kalenda and all of the nearby towns are ruled by Rome, it is prohibited to engage in business only with its worshippers.


סטרנליא וקרטסים ויום גנוסיא של מלכיהם ויום שהומלך בו מלך לפניו אסור אחריו מותר וגוי שעשה (בו) משתה לבנו אין אסור אלא אותו היום ואותו האיש


The baraita continues: With regard to the festivals Saturnalia and Kratesis, and the day of the festival of their kings, and the day on which the king was crowned, the halakha is that before the festival it is prohibited to engage in business transactions, whereas after the festival it is permitted. But in the case of a gentile who prepared a feast for his son and celebrates on that day, engaging in business is prohibited only on that day itself and with that man.


אמר רב אשי אף אנן נמי תנינא דקתני יום תגלחת זקנו ובלוריתו ויום שעלה בו מן הים ויום שיצא בו מבית האסורין אין אסור אלא אותו היום בלבד ואותו האיש


Rav Ashi said: We learn in the mishna as well in accordance with Rabbi Yoḥanan’s statement that the prohibition applies only to gentiles who celebrate the festival, not to people who are ruled by them. As the mishna teaches: With regard to the day of shaving his beard and his locks, and the day of his ascent from the sea, and the day that he left prison, engaging in business is prohibited only on that day and with that man.


בשלמא אותו היום לאפוקי לפניו ולאחריו אלא אותו האיש לאפוקי מאי לאו לאפוקי משעבדיו שמע מינה


Rav Ashi explains the proof: Granted, the mishna specifies that the prohibition is limited to that day alone, in order to exclude the days before and after it. But when it states that the prohibition applies only to that man, what does the mishna exclude? Obviously the prohibition does not extend to all gentiles, as it is a personal festival. Doesn’t the mishna’s ruling serve to exclude those who are ruled by him? Therefore, conclude from the language of the mishna that a prohibition extends only to gentiles who celebrate the festival, not to those who are ruled by them.


תניא רבי ישמעאל אומר ישראל שבחוצה לארץ עובדי עבודה זרה בטהרה הן כיצד גוי שעשה משתה לבנו וזימן כל היהודים שבעירו אף על פי שאוכלין משלהן ושותין משלהן ושמש שלהן עומד לפניהם מעלה עליהם הכתוב כאילו אכלו מזבחי מתים שנאמר וקרא לך ואכלת מזבחו


It is taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yishmael says: Jews who are outside of Eretz Yisrael are considered to engage in idol worship in purity, i.e., unwittingly. How does this occur? In the case of a gentile who prepared a feast for the marriage of his son, and invited all of the Jews in his town, even though they eat of their own kosher food and drink of their own kosher beverages, and their own attendant stands before them, the verse ascribes guilt to them as though they ate of the offerings to the dead, i.e., idols, as it is stated: “And sacrifice to their gods, and they call you, and you eat of their sacrifice” (Exodus 34:15). Since Jews participate in a feast in which the gentile sacrifices offerings to his idol, it is as though they partook of the offering themselves.


ואימא עד דאכיל אמר רבא אם כן נימא קרא ואכלת מזבחו מאי וקרא לך משעת קריאה הלכך


The Gemara asks: But why not say that the verse is criticizing the Jews only once they eat from the sacrifice? Rava said: If that is what is meant, let the verse say only: And you eat of their sacrifice. What is meant by the additional phrase: “And they call you”? This indicates that the prohibition occurs from the time of the call. Therefore,


כל תלתין יומין בין אמר ליה מחמת הלולא ובין לא אמר ליה מחמת הלולא אסור מכאן ואילך אי אמר ליה מחמת הלולא אסור ואי לא אמר ליה מחמת הלולא שרי


during all the thirty days that follow the wedding celebration, if the gentile invites a Jew to a feast, whether he said to the Jew that the feast is due to the wedding celebration or whether he did not say to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, it is prohibited to attend, as it is assumed the festivity is part of the wedding celebration. From this point forward, if he said to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, it is prohibited to participate, but if he did not say to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, it is permitted to do so.


וכי אמר ליה מחמת הלולא עד אימת אמר רב פפא עד תריסר ירחי שתא ומעיקרא מאימת אסור אמר רב פפא משמיה דרבא מכי רמו שערי באסינתי


The Gemara asks: And in a case where he said to him that the feast is due to the wedding celebration, until when is the feast assumed to be connected to idol worship? Rav Pappa said: Until twelve months of the year have passed since the wedding. The Gemara asks: And initially, before the wedding, from when is it prohibited? Rav Pappa said in the name of Rava: From the time when they cast barley into the mortars [ba’asintei] to prepare beer for the wedding.


ולבתר תריסר ירחי שתא שרי והא רב יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא איקלע לבי ההוא גוי לבתר תריסר ירחי שתא ושמעיה דאודי ופירש ולא אכל שאני רב יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא דאדם חשוב הוא


The Gemara asks: And after the twelve months of the year have passed since the wedding, is it always permitted to participate in a feast? But Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Mesharshiyya, happened to come to the house of a certain gentile after twelve months of the year had passed since his son’s wedding, and he heard the gentile giving thanks to his idol for the marriage of his son, and he withdrew from the feast and did not eat there. The Gemara answers: Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Mesharshiyya, is different, as he is an important person and therefore his presence caused the gentile to rejoice.


וקרטסים וכו׳ מאי קרטסים אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל יום שתפסה בו רומי מלכות והתניא קרטסים ויום שתפסה בו רומי מלכות אמר רב יוסף שתי תפיסות תפסה רומי אחת בימי קלפטרא מלכתא ואחת שתפסה בימי יונים


§ The mishna teaches: And Kratesis, and the day of the festival of their kings. The Gemara asks: What is the festival of Kratesis? Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: It commemorates the day when Rome seized control of an empire. The Gemara asks: But isn’t it taught in a baraita: Two festivals are Kratesis and the day when Rome seized control of an empire? This indi-cates that Kratesis and the day when Rome seized control of an empire are two separate festivals. Rav Yosef said: On two separate occasions Rome seized control of an empire. One occurred in the days of Queen Cleopatra, when they conquered Egypt, and one happened much earlier, when Rome seized control in the days of the Greeks.


דכי אתא רב דימי אמר תלתין ותרין קרבי עבדו רומאי בהדי יונאי ולא יכלו להו עד דשתפינהו לישראל בהדייהו והכי אתנו בהדייהו אי מינן מלכי מנייכו הפרכי אי מנייכו מלכי מינן הפרכי


The Gemara elaborates: As when Rav Dimi came from Eretz Yisrael he said: The Romans waged thirty-two battles with the Greeks but were unable to defeat them, until they formed a partnership with the Jewish people and finally vanquished the Greeks. And this is the condition that they stipulated with the Jewish people: If the kings come from among us, the governors [hiparkhei] will come from among you; and if the kings come from among you, the governors will come from among us.


ושלחו להו רומאי ליונאי עד האידנא עבידנא בקרבא השתא נעביד בדינא מרגלית ואבן טובה איזו מהן יעשה בסיס לחבירו שלחו להו מרגלית לאבן טובה


And the Romans sent the following message to the Greeks: Until now, we attempted to resolve our conflict through fighting battles; now, let us settle the matter by means of judgment. In the case of a pearl and a precious stone, which one of them should serve as a base for the other? The Greeks sent them in response: The pearl should serve as the base for the precious stone, which has a greater value.


אבן טובה ואינך איזו מהן יעשה בסיס לחבירו אבן טובה לאינך אינך וספר תורה איזו מהן יעשה בסיס לחבירו אינך לספר תורה


The Romans further inquired: If there was a precious stone and an onyx [innakh], a particularly valuable precious stone, which one of them should serve as a base for the other? The Greeks answered: The precious stone should serve as the base for the onyx. Once again, the Romans asked: In the case of an onyx and a Torah scroll, which one of them should be serve as a base for the other? The Greeks responded: The onyx should serve as the base for the Torah scroll.


שלחו להו [אם כן] אנן ספר תורה גבן וישראל בהדן כפו להו עשרין ושית שנין קמו להו בהימנותייהו בהדי ישראל מכאן ואילך אישתעבדו בהו


The Romans sent this response to them: If that is so, then you should submit to us, as we have the Torah scroll with us, and the Jewish people are with us. The Romans are akin to the precious stone, and they are allied with the Jewish people who are akin to the onyx, and they possess the Torah scroll. The Romans therefore forced the Greeks to surrender and took over their world dominance. For twenty-six years the Romans stood faithfully with the Jewish people; from that point forward, they subjugated them.


מעיקרא מאי דרוש ולבסוף מאי דרוש מעיקרא דרוש נסעה ונלכה ואלכה לנגדך ולבסוף דרוש יעבר נא אדני לפני עבדו


The Gemara asks: Initially, when the Romans acted faithfully, what verse did they interpret, and ultimately, when they subjugated the Jews, what verse did they interpret? Initially, they interpreted the verse where Esau said to Jacob upon their meeting: “Let us take our journey, and let us go, and I will go before you” (Genesis 33:12). In this verse, Esau equates himself to Jacob, prefiguring the initial Roman treatment of the Jews. And ultimately, they interpreted the verse that recites Jacob’s response to Esau: “Let my lord, I pray you, pass over before his servant” (Genesis 33:14), demonstrating Jacob’s subjugation to Esau, and by extension that of the Jews to Rome.


עשרין ושית שנין דקמו בהימנותייהו בהדי ישראל מנא לן דאמר רב כהנא כשחלה רבי ישמעאל בר יוסי שלחו ליה רבי אמור לנו שנים ושלשה דברים שאמרת לנו משום אביך


The Gemara asks: With regard to the twenty-six years during which the Romans stood faithfully with the Jewish people, from where do we know that this was the case? The Gemara cites a proof. As Rav Kahana says: When Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, fell ill, the Sages sent the following message to him: Our teacher, tell us two or three statements that you once told us in the name of your father, Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta, as we do not remember the statements precisely.


אמר להו מאה ושמנים שנה קודם שנחרב הבית פשטה מלכות הרשעה על ישראל שמונים שנה עד לא חרב הבית גזרו טומאה על ארץ העמים ועל כלי זכוכית ארבעים שנה עד לא חרב הבית גלתה סנהדרין וישבה לה בחנות


Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, said to them the following statements that were passed down to him by his father: One hundred and eighty years before the Second Temple was destroyed, the evil Roman Empire stretched forth over Israel and ruled over them. Eighty years before the Temple was destroyed, the Sages decreed impurity on the land of the nations and on glass vessels. Forty years before the Temple was destroyed, the Sanhedrin was exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone and sat in the store near the Temple Mount.


למאי הלכתא אמר רבי יצחק בר אבדימי לומר שלא דנו דיני קנסות דיני קנסות סלקא דעתך והאמר רב יהודה אמר רב ברם זכור אותו האיש לטוב ורבי יהודה בן בבא שמו שאלמלא הוא נשתכחו דיני קנסות מישראל נשתכחו לגרסינהו


The Gemara asks: With regard to what halakha is it necessary to know where the Sanhedrin would convene? Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Avdimi said: It is necessary in order to say that they no longer judged cases of fines. The Gemara asks: Does it enter your mind that at this point the Sanhedrin no longer judged cases of fines? But doesn’t Rav Yehuda say that Rav says: Indeed [beram], that man will be remembered favorably, and Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava is his name, as had it not been for him the laws of fines would have been forgotten from among the Jewish people. The Gemara challenges that assertion: Would the laws of fines actually have been forgotten? Let the scholars study them, so they will not be forgotten.


אלא בטלו דיני קנסות מישראל שגזרה מלכות הרשעה שמד על ישראל כל הסומך יהרג וכל הנסמך יהרג ועיר שסומכין בה תחרב ותחום שסומכין בו יעקר


Rather, his intention was to say that the laws of fines would have ceased to be implemented from among the Jewish people, as they would not have been able to adjudicate cases involving these halakhot due to a lack of ordained judges. This is because at one time the wicked kingdom of Rome issued decrees of religious persecution against the Jewish people with the aim of abolishing the chain of ordination and the authority of the Sages. They said that anyone who ordains judges will be killed, and anyone who is ordained will be killed, and the city in which they ordain the judges will be destroyed, and the areas around the boundary of the city in which they ordain judges will be uprooted. These measures were intended to discourage the Sages from performing or receiving ordination due to fear for the welfare of the local population.


מה עשה רבי יהודה בן בבא הלך וישב בין שני הרים גדולים ובין שתי עיירות גדולות בין שני תחומי שבת בין אושא לשפרעם וסמך שם חמשה זקנים רבי מאיר ורבי יהודה ורבי יוסי ורבי שמעון ורבי אלעזר בן שמוע ורב אויא מוסיף אף רבי נחמיה


What did Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava do? He went and sat between two large mountains, and between two large cities, and between two Shabbat boundaries: Between Usha and Shefaram, i.e., in a desolate place that was not associated with any particular city so that he would not endanger anyone not directly involved, and there he ordained five Elders, namely: Rabbi Meir, and Rabbi Yehuda, and Rabbi Shimon, and Rabbi Yosei, and Rabbi Elazar ben Shammua. And Rav Avya adds that Rabbi Neḥemya was also among those ordained.


כיון שהכירו בהם אויבים אמר להם בני רוצו אמרו לו רבי ואתה מה תהא עליך אמר להם הריני מוטל לפניהם כאבן שאין לה הופכין אמרו לא זזו משם עד שנעצו לגופו שלש מאות לולניאות של ברזל ועשאוהו לגופו ככברה


When their enemies discovered them, Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava said to the newly ordained rabbis: My sons, run for your lives. They said to him: Our teacher, and what will be with you? Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava was elderly and unable to run. He said to them: In any case, I am cast before them like a stone that cannot be overturned; even if you attempt to assist me I will not be able to escape due to my frailty, but if you do not escape without me you will also be killed. People said about this incident: The Roman soldiers did not move from there until they had inserted three hundred iron spears [lulniot] into his body, making his body appear like a sieve pierced with many holes. It can be inferred from this episode that there were ordained judges who could hear cases of fines for many years after the destruction of the Temple, in contrast to Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Avdimi’s statement.


אמר רב נחמן בר יצחק לא תימא דיני קנסות אלא שלא דנו דיני נפשות


Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak says in explanation: Do not say that after the Sanhedrin was exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone they no longer judged cases of fines; rather, emend the statement to say that they no longer judged cases of capital law, as a court does not have the authority to hear capital cases when the Sanhedrin is not sitting in the Chamber of Hewn Stone.


מאי טעמא כיון דחזו דנפישי להו רוצחין ולא יכלי למידן אמרו מוטב נגלי ממקום למקום כי היכי דלא ליחייבו


The Gemara explains: What is the reason that the members of the Sanhedrin ceased to meet in their proper place and thereby ended the adjudication of capital cases? Once they saw that the murderers were so numerous and they were not able to judge them and punish them with death, they said: It is better that we should be exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone and move from place to place, so that offenders will not be deemed liable to receive the death penalty in a time period when the court does not carry out their sentences.


דכתיב ועשית על פי הדבר אשר יגידו לך מן המקום ההוא מלמד שהמקום גורם


The Gemara explains why a court may not adjudicate capital cases once the Sanhedrin has left the Chamber of Hewn Stone. As it is written: “And you shall do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare to you from that place” (Deuteronomy 17:10). This verse teaches that it is the place where the Sanhedrin resides that causes the judgment to take place. In other words, if the Sanhedrin has abandoned its proper place, the Chamber of Hewn Stone, all courts must cease judging capital cases.


מאה ושמנים ותו לא והתני רבי יוסי ברבי


The Gemara returns to the earlier comment of Rabbi Yishmael in the name of his father Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta, that the Roman Empire ruled over Israel one hundred and eighty years before the second Temple was destroyed. The Gemara asks: Did Rome rule over Israel for one hundred and eighty years before the destruction of the Temple and no more? But didn’t Rabbi Yosei the Great, i.e., Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta himself, teach:


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