Search

Bava Batra 163

Want to dedicate learning? Get started here:

podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




Summary

A braita established that one can leave one blank line in a document before the signatures, but not two. Several issues are raised regarding the lines discussed. Is it two lines with a space above and below and if so, how much? What size font – the size of a scribe or the size of witnesses?

Rav and Rabbi Yochanan disagree about whether one can leave a space between the witnesses’ signatures and the judges’ ratification. Rav says more space can be left than before the witnesses’s signature and Rabbi Yochanan says no space can be left. The Gemara is concerned according to each interpretation for possible forgeries and discusses why there is no concern and if there is, how it can be detected.

Today’s daily daf tools:

Bava Batra 163

הֵן וַאֲוִירָן, אוֹ דִלְמָא הֵן וְלֹא אֲוִירָן?

does this refer to the size of lines with the space between lines added? Or is it perhaps referring to lines of writing themselves, without their spaces?

אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: מִסְתַּבְּרָא דְּהֵן וַאֲוִירָן, דְּאִי סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ הֵן וְלֹא אֲוִירָן – שִׁיטָה אַחַת בְּלֹא אֲוִירָהּ, לְמַאי חַזְיָא? אֶלָּא שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ – הֵן וַאֲוִירָן! שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ.

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: It stands to reason that it is referring to the lines with their spaces. As, if it were to enter your mind that it is referring to the lines without their spaces, for what is one line without its space fit? The baraita did not have to state that a document with a single blank line after the text, measured without counting spaces, is not forgeable; this is obvious. Rather, one may conclude from this claim that the reference is to two lines with their spaces. The Gemara affirms: Conclude from this claim that it is so.

רַבִּי שַׁבְּתַי אָמַר מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּחִזְקִיָּה: שְׁנֵי שִׁיטִין שֶׁאָמְרוּ – בִּכְתַב יְדֵי עֵדִים, וְלֹא כְּתַב יְדֵי סוֹפֵר. מַאי טַעְמָא? דְּכׇל הַמְזַיֵּיף, לָאו לְגַבֵּי סָפְרָא אָזֵיל וּמְזַיֵּיף.

Rabbi Shabbtai says in the name of Ḥizkiyya: With regard to the gap of two blank lines between the text and the signatures, which the Sages said invalidates the document, the lines are measured by the handwriting of witnesses, and not by the handwriting of a scribe, who is presumably skilled enough to write in a smaller script. What is the reason for this? Anyone who forges a document, adding additional lines to the document, would not go to a scribe and ask him to forge it; he would execute the forgery himself, or have another unscrupulous person who is not a professional scribe forge it. Therefore, in order to present a concern for possible forgery, a document must have two blank lines that are measured by the handwriting of an ordinary person, such as one of the witnesses.

וְכַמָּה? אָמַר רַב יִצְחָק בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר: כְּגוֹן ״לְךָ–לְךָ״ זֶה עַל גַּבֵּי זֶה. אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנֵי שִׁיטִין, וְאַרְבָּעָה אֲוִירִין.

The Gemara has established that the width of the gap required to invalidate the document is two lines with interlinear space. The Gemara clarifies: And how much interlinear space is necessary to invalidate the document? Rav Yitzḥak ben Elazar says: For example, enough to write the Hebrew word lekha, and then the Hebrew word lekha, this word on top of that one. These two words each consist of the two letters lamed and final khaf; the former has a projection that fully occupies the interlinear space above it, and the latter has a projection that fully occupies the interlinear space below it. Writing these words one under the other, then, would require an additional interlinear space above and below both lines. The Gemara concludes: Apparently, Rav Yitzḥak ben Elazar maintains that the empty space required to invalidate the document is the width of two written lines with four interlinear spaces.

רַב חִיָּיא בַּר אַמֵּי מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּעוּלָּא אָמַר: כְּגוֹן לָמֶד מִלְּמַעְלָה וְכָף מִלְּמַטָּה. אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנֵי שִׁיטִין וּשְׁלֹשָׁה אֲוִירִין.

Rav Ḥiyya bar Ami states a different opinion in the name of Ulla: For example, enough to write a lamed on the upper line and a final khaf on the lower line. The Gemara concludes: Apparently, Ulla maintains that the empty space required to invalidate the document is the width of two written lines with three interlinear spaces, one above the first line, one between the two lines, and one beneath the second line.

רַבִּי אֲבָהוּ אָמַר: כְּגוֹן: ״בָּרוּךְ בֶּן לֵוִי״ בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת. קָא סָבַר: שִׁיטָה אַחַת וּשְׁנֵי אֲוִירִין.

Rabbi Abbahu states a different opinion: For example, enough to write the name Barukh ben Levi on one line. Barukh contains a final khaf, and Levi contains a lamed. The Gemara concludes: Apparently, Rabbi Abbahu maintains that the empty space required to invalidate the document is the width of one written line with two interlinear spaces, one above the line and one beneath the line.

אָמַר רַב: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא בֵּין עֵדִים לַכְּתָב, אֲבָל בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא – אֲפִילּוּ טוּבָא נָמֵי כָּשֵׁר.

§ Rav says: They taught in the baraita that a gap of two lines invalidates the document only if that space is between the witnesses’ signatures and the text of the document. But if there is a gap between the witnesses’ signatures and a court’s ratification of the document, which follows the witnesses’ signatures, then even if there is more space than this, the document is valid.

מַאי שְׁנָא בֵּין עֵדִים לַכְּתָב – דִּלְמָא מְזַיֵּיף וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וַחֲתִימִי סָהֲדִי; בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא נָמֵי, מְזַיֵּיף וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וַחֲתִימִי סָהֲדִי!

The Gemara asks: What is different about the case where the gap is between the witnesses and the text, that it invalidates the document? There is a concern that perhaps the holder of the document may forge additional lines and write whatever he wants, and the witnesses have already signed at the bottom, giving the appearance that they attest to the added lines as well. But the same concern can be raised concerning a gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification as well: There, too, he can forge additional lines and write whatever he wants, and have witnesses sign it, with the court’s ratification giving the appearance that it attests to the added lines and signatures as well. Why is this document valid?

דִּמְטַיֵּיט לֵיהּ. אִי הָכִי, בֵּין עֵדִים לַשְּׁטָר נָמֵי מְטַיֵּיט לֵיהּ!

The Gemara explains: When is a gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification not problematic, according to Rav? Only when someone inks in the blank space with lines or dots, to prevent information from being added there. The Gemara asks: If so, the gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the text of the document should also be made irrelevant in this manner: Let the scribe ink in [metayyet] the blank space. Why, then, was it taught categorically that the witnesses must sign within two lines of the text?

אָמְרִי: סָהֲדֵי אַטְּיוּטָא הוּא דַּחֲתִימִי. בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא נָמֵי, אָמְרִי: בֵּי דִינָא אַטְּיוּטָא הוּא דַּחֲתִימִי! בֵּי דִינָא אַטְּיוּטָא לָא חֲתִימִי.

The Gemara answers: Inking in the gap between the text and the signatures of the witnesses will not help, as people might say, i.e., the concern might be raised: The witnesses are signed only on the inking in. It is possible that the witnesses’ signatures were affixed only to attest that the inking was done in their presence and that the inking in is not a sign of duplicity, and their signatures do not relate to the actual text of the document. The Gemara asks: If so, raise the same concern when the gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification is inked in; there too, people might say: The court’s ratification is signed only for the inking in, and not for the actual text of the document. The Gemara answers: A court does not sign on mere inking in; their ratification is always in reference to the entire document.

וְלֵיחוּשׁ דִּלְמָא גָּיֵיז לֵיהּ לְעֵילָּא, וּמָחֵיק לֵיהּ לִטְיוּטָא, וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וּמַחְתִּים סָהֲדֵי; וְאָמַר רַב: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא וְעֵדָיו עַל הַמְּחָק – כָּשֵׁר!

The Gemara raises another issue: And let there be a concern that perhaps the holder of the document will excise the entire text that appears above the signatures, and then erase the inked-in part and write whatever he wants in that erased area, and have unscrupulous witnesses sign it. And this would be a valid document, as Rav says: A document that comes before the court for ratification in which its content and the signatures of its witnesses are both written over an erasure is valid. The court ratification would then be assumed to be referring to this new, forged document.

הָנִיחָא לְרַב כָּהֲנָא – דְּמַתְנֵי לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל, שַׁפִּיר; אֶלָּא לְרַב טָבְיוֹמֵי – דְּמַתְנֵי לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַב, מַאי אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר?

This works out well, i.e., this concern does not apply, according to Rav Kahana, who teaches in the name of Shmuel that a document in which its content and its witnesses’ signatures are both written over an erasure is valid; according to him, all is well. It is Rav who says that an inked-in gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification is acceptable, and it is Shmuel who says that a document that is written and signed over an erasure is acceptable. But according to Rav Tavyumei, who teaches this latter statement in the name of Rav, what can be said? According to him, Rav said both statements, and taken together they pose a difficulty: The inked-in gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the ratification can easily be erased and a new document with signatures can be written over the erasure.

קָסָבַר: כׇּל כִּי הַאי גַוְונָא, אֵין מְקַיְּימִין אוֹתוֹ מִן הָאַשַּׁרְתָּא שֶׁבּוֹ, אֶלָּא מִן הָעֵדִים שֶׁבּוֹ.

The Gemara answers: Rav maintains that in all cases like this, where a document and its witnesses’ signatures are written over an erasure and there is a court ratification on a non-erased part of the paper, the later court ratifies the document not on the basis of the previous court’s ratification that is on it, but only on the basis of the signatures of the witnesses that are on it. Therefore, the forging of a document in this manner is impossible, as the prior ratification of the court is disregarded, and the witnesses will attest to what they signed upon.

וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא בֵּין הָעֵדִים לַכְּתָב, אֲבָל בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא – אֲפִילּוּ שִׁיטָה אַחַת פָּסוּל.

The Gemara cites another opinion: And Rabbi Yoḥanan says: They taught in the baraita that a gap of one line does not invalidate the document only in the case where that space is between the witnesses’ signatures and the text of the document. But if the gap is between the witnesses’ signatures and a court’s ratification of the document, then a space of even one line renders the document not valid.

מַאי שְׁנָא בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא – דִּלְמָא גָּיֵיז לְעִילַּאי, וְכָתֵב הוּא וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת, וְקָסָבַר: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת – כָּשֵׁר;

The Gemara asks: What is different about the case where there is a one-line gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification that you say it is not valid? The Gemara answers: There is a concern that perhaps the holder of the document will excise the entire text of the document at the top of the paper and then write a new, brief document, with its text and the signatures of its witnesses on one line. The court’s ratification will appear to verify the new, forged document. And Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that a document that comes before the court with its text and the signatures of its witnesses appearing on one line is valid.

אִי הָכִי, בֵּין עֵדִים לַכְּתָב נָמֵי – דִּלְמָא גָּיֵיז לֵיהּ לְעִילַּאי, וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וַחֲתִימִי סָהֲדֵי! קָא סָבַר: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת, וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחֶרֶת – פָּסוּל.

The Gemara suggests: If so, the same problem also exists when there is a one-line gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the text: There should be a concern that perhaps he will excise the entire text of the document at the top of the paper and then write whatever he wants in a brief, one-line document. And the witnesses’ signatures on the next line, which are there from the old document, will still be signed there, appearing to attest to the veracity of the new, one-line document. The Gemara answers: Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that a document that comes before the court with its text on one line and the signatures of its witnesses appearing on another line, i.e., on the following line, is not valid.

וְלֵיחוּשׁ דִּלְמָא כָּתֵב הוּא וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת, וְאָמַר: אֲנָא לְרַבּוֹת בְּעֵדִים הוּא דַּעֲבַדִי!

The Gemara suggests: And let there be a concern that perhaps the holder of the document will excise the entire document, leaving only the blank line and the signatures that follow it, and he will write a brief document in which its text and the signatures of its witnesses are on one line, followed by the original signatures that remained from the original document, and he will say: I did this in order to increase the number of witnesses, the more to publicize the matter written in the document. The document is therefore still forgeable.

קָסָבַר: כֹּל כִּי הַאי גַוְונָא – אֵין מְקַיְּימִין אוֹתוֹ מִן הָעֵדִים שֶׁלְּמַטָּה, אֶלָּא מִן הָעֵדִים שֶׁלְּמַעְלָה.

The Gemara answers: Rabbi Yoḥanan maintains that in all cases like this, where a document and its witnesses’ signatures are written on one line, followed by other signatures on subsequent lines, the court ratifies the document not on the basis of the signatures of the witnesses that are on the bottom, but on the basis of the signatures of the witnesses that are on top, on the same line as the text. Therefore, the forging of a document in this manner is impossible. The false signatures of the witnesses will be discovered when those witnesses attest to what they signed upon.

גּוּפָא – אָמַר רַב: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא וְעֵדָיו עַל הַמְּחָק – כָּשֵׁר.

§ Having cited Rav’s statement, the Gemara discusses the matter itself. Rav says: A document that comes before the court in which its content and the signatures of its witnesses are both written over an erasure is valid.

Today’s daily daf tools:

Delve Deeper

Broaden your understanding of the topics on this daf with classes and podcasts from top women Talmud scholars.

For the Beyond the Daf shiurim offered in Hebrew, see here.

New to Talmud?

Check out our resources designed to help you navigate a page of Talmud – and study at the pace, level and style that fits you. 

The Hadran Women’s Tapestry

Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories. 

My curiosity was peaked after seeing posts about the end of the last cycle. I am always looking for opportunities to increase my Jewish literacy & I am someone that is drawn to habit and consistency. Dinnertime includes a “Guess what I learned on the daf” segment for my husband and 18 year old twins. I also love the feelings of connection with my colleagues who are also learning.

Diana Bloom
Diana Bloom

Tampa, United States

I read Ilana Kurshan’s “If All the Seas Were Ink” which inspired me. Then the Women’s Siyum in Jerusalem in 2020 convinced me, I knew I had to join! I have loved it- it’s been a constant in my life daily, many of the sugiyot connect to our lives. My family and friends all are so supportive. It’s incredible being part of this community and love how diverse it is! I am so excited to learn more!

Shira Jacobowitz
Shira Jacobowitz

Jerusalem, Israel

Years ago, I attended the local Siyum HaShas with my high school class. It was inspiring! Through that cycle and the next one, I studied masekhtot on my own and then did “daf yomi practice.” The amazing Hadran Siyum HaShas event firmed my resolve to “really do” Daf Yomi this time. It has become a family goal. We’ve supported each other through challenges, and now we’re at the Siyum of Seder Moed!

Elisheva Brauner
Elisheva Brauner

Jerusalem, Israel

When I began learning Daf Yomi at the beginning of the current cycle, I was preparing for an upcoming surgery and thought that learning the Daf would be something positive I could do each day during my recovery, even if I accomplished nothing else. I had no idea what a lifeline learning the Daf would turn out to be in so many ways.

Laura Shechter
Laura Shechter

Lexington, MA, United States

3 years ago, I joined Rabbanit Michelle to organize the unprecedented Siyum HaShas event in Jerusalem for thousands of women. The whole experience was so inspiring that I decided then to start learning the daf and see how I would go…. and I’m still at it. I often listen to the Daf on my bike in mornings, surrounded by both the external & the internal beauty of Eretz Yisrael & Am Yisrael!

Lisa Kolodny
Lisa Kolodny

Raanana, Israel

See video

Susan Fisher
Susan Fisher

Raanana, Israel

It’s hard to believe it has been over two years. Daf yomi has changed my life in so many ways and has been sustaining during this global sea change. Each day means learning something new, digging a little deeper, adding another lens, seeing worlds with new eyes. Daf has also fostered new friendships and deepened childhood connections, as long time friends have unexpectedly become havruta.

Joanna Rom
Joanna Rom

Northwest Washington, United States

I started learning daf yomi at the beginning of this cycle. As the pandemic evolved, it’s been so helpful to me to have this discipline every morning to listen to the daf podcast after I’ve read the daf; learning about the relationships between the rabbis and the ways they were constructing our Jewish religion after the destruction of the Temple. I’m grateful to be on this journey!

Mona Fishbane
Mona Fishbane

Teaneck NJ, United States

I started learning on January 5, 2020. When I complete the 7+ year cycle I will be 70 years old. I had been intimidated by those who said that I needed to study Talmud in a traditional way with a chevruta, but I decided the learning was more important to me than the method. Thankful for Daf Yomi for Women helping me catch up when I fall behind, and also being able to celebrate with each Siyum!

Pamela Elisheva
Pamela Elisheva

Bakersfield, United States

I started learning Daf in Jan 2020 with Brachot b/c I had never seen the Jewish people united around something so positive, and I wanted to be a part of it. Also, I wanted to broaden my background in Torah Shebal Peh- Maayanot gave me a great gemara education, but I knew that I could hold a conversation in most parts of tanach but almost no TSB. I’m so thankful for Daf and have gained immensely.

Meira Shapiro
Meira Shapiro

NJ, United States

I saw an elderly man at the shul kiddush in early March 2020, celebrating the siyyum of masechet brachot which he had been learning with a young yeshiva student. I thought, if he can do it, I can do it! I began to learn masechet Shabbat the next day, Making up masechet brachot myself, which I had missed. I haven’t missed a day since, thanks to the ease of listening to Hadran’s podcast!
Judith Shapiro
Judith Shapiro

Minnesota, United States

I heard about the syium in January 2020 & I was excited to start learning then the pandemic started. Learning Daf became something to focus on but also something stressful. As the world changed around me & my family I had to adjust my expectations for myself & the world. Daf Yomi & the Hadran podcast has been something I look forward to every day. It gives me a moment of centering & Judaism daily.

Talia Haykin
Talia Haykin

Denver, United States

While vacationing in San Diego, Rabbi Leah Herz asked if I’d be interested in being in hevruta with her to learn Daf Yomi through Hadran. Why not? I had loved learning Gemara in college in 1971 but hadn’t returned. With the onset of covid, Daf Yomi and Rabbanit Michelle centered me each day. Thank-you for helping me grow and enter this amazing world of learning.
Meryll Page
Meryll Page

Minneapolis, MN, United States

I started at the beginning of this cycle. No 1 reason, but here’s 5.
In 2019 I read about the upcoming siyum hashas.
There was a sermon at shul about how anyone can learn Talmud.
Talmud references come up when I am studying. I wanted to know more.
Yentl was on telly. Not a great movie but it’s about studying Talmud.
I went to the Hadran website: A new cycle is starting. I’m gonna do this

Denise Neapolitan
Denise Neapolitan

Cambridge, United Kingdom

I learned daf more off than on 40 years ago. At the beginning of the current cycle, I decided to commit to learning daf regularly. Having Rabanit Michelle available as a learning partner has been amazing. Sometimes I learn with Hadran, sometimes with my husband, and sometimes on my own. It’s been fun to be part of an extended learning community.

Miriam Pollack
Miriam Pollack

Honolulu, Hawaii, United States

It happened without intent (so am I yotzei?!) – I watched the women’s siyum live and was so moved by it that the next morning, I tuned in to Rabbanit Michelle’s shiur, and here I am, still learning every day, over 2 years later. Some days it all goes over my head, but others I grasp onto an idea or a story, and I ‘get it’ and that’s the best feeling in the world. So proud to be a Hadran learner.

Jeanne Yael Klempner
Jeanne Yael Klempner

Zichron Yaakov, Israel

When we heard that R. Michelle was starting daf yomi, my 11-year-old suggested that I go. Little did she know that she would lose me every morning from then on. I remember standing at the Farbers’ door, almost too shy to enter. After that first class, I said that I would come the next day but couldn’t commit to more. A decade later, I still look forward to learning from R. Michelle every morning.

Ruth Leah Kahan
Ruth Leah Kahan

Ra’anana, Israel

I started learning daf yomi at the beginning of this cycle. As the pandemic evolved, it’s been so helpful to me to have this discipline every morning to listen to the daf podcast after I’ve read the daf; learning about the relationships between the rabbis and the ways they were constructing our Jewish religion after the destruction of the Temple. I’m grateful to be on this journey!

Mona Fishbane
Mona Fishbane

Teaneck NJ, United States

I learned Talmud as a student in Yeshivat Ramaz and felt at the time that Talmud wasn’t for me. After reading Ilana Kurshan’s book I was intrigued and after watching the great siyum in Yerushalayim it ignited the spark to begin this journey. It has been a transformative life experience for me as a wife, mother, Savta and member of Klal Yisrael.
Elana Storch
Elana Storch

Phoenix, Arizona, United States

When the new cycle began, I thought, If not now, when? I’d just turned 72. I feel like a tourist on a tour bus passing astonishing scenery each day. Rabbanit Michelle is my beloved tour guide. When the cycle ends, I’ll be 80. I pray that I’ll have strength and mind to continue the journey to glimpse a little more. My grandchildren think having a daf-learning savta is cool!

Wendy Dickstein
Wendy Dickstein

Jerusalem, Israel

Bava Batra 163

הֵן וַאֲוִירָן, אוֹ דִלְמָא הֵן וְלֹא אֲוִירָן?

does this refer to the size of lines with the space between lines added? Or is it perhaps referring to lines of writing themselves, without their spaces?

אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: מִסְתַּבְּרָא דְּהֵן וַאֲוִירָן, דְּאִי סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ הֵן וְלֹא אֲוִירָן – שִׁיטָה אַחַת בְּלֹא אֲוִירָהּ, לְמַאי חַזְיָא? אֶלָּא שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ – הֵן וַאֲוִירָן! שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ.

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: It stands to reason that it is referring to the lines with their spaces. As, if it were to enter your mind that it is referring to the lines without their spaces, for what is one line without its space fit? The baraita did not have to state that a document with a single blank line after the text, measured without counting spaces, is not forgeable; this is obvious. Rather, one may conclude from this claim that the reference is to two lines with their spaces. The Gemara affirms: Conclude from this claim that it is so.

רַבִּי שַׁבְּתַי אָמַר מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּחִזְקִיָּה: שְׁנֵי שִׁיטִין שֶׁאָמְרוּ – בִּכְתַב יְדֵי עֵדִים, וְלֹא כְּתַב יְדֵי סוֹפֵר. מַאי טַעְמָא? דְּכׇל הַמְזַיֵּיף, לָאו לְגַבֵּי סָפְרָא אָזֵיל וּמְזַיֵּיף.

Rabbi Shabbtai says in the name of Ḥizkiyya: With regard to the gap of two blank lines between the text and the signatures, which the Sages said invalidates the document, the lines are measured by the handwriting of witnesses, and not by the handwriting of a scribe, who is presumably skilled enough to write in a smaller script. What is the reason for this? Anyone who forges a document, adding additional lines to the document, would not go to a scribe and ask him to forge it; he would execute the forgery himself, or have another unscrupulous person who is not a professional scribe forge it. Therefore, in order to present a concern for possible forgery, a document must have two blank lines that are measured by the handwriting of an ordinary person, such as one of the witnesses.

וְכַמָּה? אָמַר רַב יִצְחָק בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר: כְּגוֹן ״לְךָ–לְךָ״ זֶה עַל גַּבֵּי זֶה. אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנֵי שִׁיטִין, וְאַרְבָּעָה אֲוִירִין.

The Gemara has established that the width of the gap required to invalidate the document is two lines with interlinear space. The Gemara clarifies: And how much interlinear space is necessary to invalidate the document? Rav Yitzḥak ben Elazar says: For example, enough to write the Hebrew word lekha, and then the Hebrew word lekha, this word on top of that one. These two words each consist of the two letters lamed and final khaf; the former has a projection that fully occupies the interlinear space above it, and the latter has a projection that fully occupies the interlinear space below it. Writing these words one under the other, then, would require an additional interlinear space above and below both lines. The Gemara concludes: Apparently, Rav Yitzḥak ben Elazar maintains that the empty space required to invalidate the document is the width of two written lines with four interlinear spaces.

רַב חִיָּיא בַּר אַמֵּי מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּעוּלָּא אָמַר: כְּגוֹן לָמֶד מִלְּמַעְלָה וְכָף מִלְּמַטָּה. אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנֵי שִׁיטִין וּשְׁלֹשָׁה אֲוִירִין.

Rav Ḥiyya bar Ami states a different opinion in the name of Ulla: For example, enough to write a lamed on the upper line and a final khaf on the lower line. The Gemara concludes: Apparently, Ulla maintains that the empty space required to invalidate the document is the width of two written lines with three interlinear spaces, one above the first line, one between the two lines, and one beneath the second line.

רַבִּי אֲבָהוּ אָמַר: כְּגוֹן: ״בָּרוּךְ בֶּן לֵוִי״ בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת. קָא סָבַר: שִׁיטָה אַחַת וּשְׁנֵי אֲוִירִין.

Rabbi Abbahu states a different opinion: For example, enough to write the name Barukh ben Levi on one line. Barukh contains a final khaf, and Levi contains a lamed. The Gemara concludes: Apparently, Rabbi Abbahu maintains that the empty space required to invalidate the document is the width of one written line with two interlinear spaces, one above the line and one beneath the line.

אָמַר רַב: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא בֵּין עֵדִים לַכְּתָב, אֲבָל בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא – אֲפִילּוּ טוּבָא נָמֵי כָּשֵׁר.

§ Rav says: They taught in the baraita that a gap of two lines invalidates the document only if that space is between the witnesses’ signatures and the text of the document. But if there is a gap between the witnesses’ signatures and a court’s ratification of the document, which follows the witnesses’ signatures, then even if there is more space than this, the document is valid.

מַאי שְׁנָא בֵּין עֵדִים לַכְּתָב – דִּלְמָא מְזַיֵּיף וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וַחֲתִימִי סָהֲדִי; בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא נָמֵי, מְזַיֵּיף וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וַחֲתִימִי סָהֲדִי!

The Gemara asks: What is different about the case where the gap is between the witnesses and the text, that it invalidates the document? There is a concern that perhaps the holder of the document may forge additional lines and write whatever he wants, and the witnesses have already signed at the bottom, giving the appearance that they attest to the added lines as well. But the same concern can be raised concerning a gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification as well: There, too, he can forge additional lines and write whatever he wants, and have witnesses sign it, with the court’s ratification giving the appearance that it attests to the added lines and signatures as well. Why is this document valid?

דִּמְטַיֵּיט לֵיהּ. אִי הָכִי, בֵּין עֵדִים לַשְּׁטָר נָמֵי מְטַיֵּיט לֵיהּ!

The Gemara explains: When is a gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification not problematic, according to Rav? Only when someone inks in the blank space with lines or dots, to prevent information from being added there. The Gemara asks: If so, the gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the text of the document should also be made irrelevant in this manner: Let the scribe ink in [metayyet] the blank space. Why, then, was it taught categorically that the witnesses must sign within two lines of the text?

אָמְרִי: סָהֲדֵי אַטְּיוּטָא הוּא דַּחֲתִימִי. בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא נָמֵי, אָמְרִי: בֵּי דִינָא אַטְּיוּטָא הוּא דַּחֲתִימִי! בֵּי דִינָא אַטְּיוּטָא לָא חֲתִימִי.

The Gemara answers: Inking in the gap between the text and the signatures of the witnesses will not help, as people might say, i.e., the concern might be raised: The witnesses are signed only on the inking in. It is possible that the witnesses’ signatures were affixed only to attest that the inking was done in their presence and that the inking in is not a sign of duplicity, and their signatures do not relate to the actual text of the document. The Gemara asks: If so, raise the same concern when the gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification is inked in; there too, people might say: The court’s ratification is signed only for the inking in, and not for the actual text of the document. The Gemara answers: A court does not sign on mere inking in; their ratification is always in reference to the entire document.

וְלֵיחוּשׁ דִּלְמָא גָּיֵיז לֵיהּ לְעֵילָּא, וּמָחֵיק לֵיהּ לִטְיוּטָא, וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וּמַחְתִּים סָהֲדֵי; וְאָמַר רַב: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא וְעֵדָיו עַל הַמְּחָק – כָּשֵׁר!

The Gemara raises another issue: And let there be a concern that perhaps the holder of the document will excise the entire text that appears above the signatures, and then erase the inked-in part and write whatever he wants in that erased area, and have unscrupulous witnesses sign it. And this would be a valid document, as Rav says: A document that comes before the court for ratification in which its content and the signatures of its witnesses are both written over an erasure is valid. The court ratification would then be assumed to be referring to this new, forged document.

הָנִיחָא לְרַב כָּהֲנָא – דְּמַתְנֵי לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל, שַׁפִּיר; אֶלָּא לְרַב טָבְיוֹמֵי – דְּמַתְנֵי לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַב, מַאי אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר?

This works out well, i.e., this concern does not apply, according to Rav Kahana, who teaches in the name of Shmuel that a document in which its content and its witnesses’ signatures are both written over an erasure is valid; according to him, all is well. It is Rav who says that an inked-in gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification is acceptable, and it is Shmuel who says that a document that is written and signed over an erasure is acceptable. But according to Rav Tavyumei, who teaches this latter statement in the name of Rav, what can be said? According to him, Rav said both statements, and taken together they pose a difficulty: The inked-in gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the ratification can easily be erased and a new document with signatures can be written over the erasure.

קָסָבַר: כׇּל כִּי הַאי גַוְונָא, אֵין מְקַיְּימִין אוֹתוֹ מִן הָאַשַּׁרְתָּא שֶׁבּוֹ, אֶלָּא מִן הָעֵדִים שֶׁבּוֹ.

The Gemara answers: Rav maintains that in all cases like this, where a document and its witnesses’ signatures are written over an erasure and there is a court ratification on a non-erased part of the paper, the later court ratifies the document not on the basis of the previous court’s ratification that is on it, but only on the basis of the signatures of the witnesses that are on it. Therefore, the forging of a document in this manner is impossible, as the prior ratification of the court is disregarded, and the witnesses will attest to what they signed upon.

וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא בֵּין הָעֵדִים לַכְּתָב, אֲבָל בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא – אֲפִילּוּ שִׁיטָה אַחַת פָּסוּל.

The Gemara cites another opinion: And Rabbi Yoḥanan says: They taught in the baraita that a gap of one line does not invalidate the document only in the case where that space is between the witnesses’ signatures and the text of the document. But if the gap is between the witnesses’ signatures and a court’s ratification of the document, then a space of even one line renders the document not valid.

מַאי שְׁנָא בֵּין עֵדִים לָאַשַּׁרְתָּא – דִּלְמָא גָּיֵיז לְעִילַּאי, וְכָתֵב הוּא וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת, וְקָסָבַר: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת – כָּשֵׁר;

The Gemara asks: What is different about the case where there is a one-line gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the court’s ratification that you say it is not valid? The Gemara answers: There is a concern that perhaps the holder of the document will excise the entire text of the document at the top of the paper and then write a new, brief document, with its text and the signatures of its witnesses on one line. The court’s ratification will appear to verify the new, forged document. And Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that a document that comes before the court with its text and the signatures of its witnesses appearing on one line is valid.

אִי הָכִי, בֵּין עֵדִים לַכְּתָב נָמֵי – דִּלְמָא גָּיֵיז לֵיהּ לְעִילַּאי, וְכָתֵב מַאי דְּבָעֵי, וַחֲתִימִי סָהֲדֵי! קָא סָבַר: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת, וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחֶרֶת – פָּסוּל.

The Gemara suggests: If so, the same problem also exists when there is a one-line gap between the witnesses’ signatures and the text: There should be a concern that perhaps he will excise the entire text of the document at the top of the paper and then write whatever he wants in a brief, one-line document. And the witnesses’ signatures on the next line, which are there from the old document, will still be signed there, appearing to attest to the veracity of the new, one-line document. The Gemara answers: Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that a document that comes before the court with its text on one line and the signatures of its witnesses appearing on another line, i.e., on the following line, is not valid.

וְלֵיחוּשׁ דִּלְמָא כָּתֵב הוּא וְעֵדָיו בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת, וְאָמַר: אֲנָא לְרַבּוֹת בְּעֵדִים הוּא דַּעֲבַדִי!

The Gemara suggests: And let there be a concern that perhaps the holder of the document will excise the entire document, leaving only the blank line and the signatures that follow it, and he will write a brief document in which its text and the signatures of its witnesses are on one line, followed by the original signatures that remained from the original document, and he will say: I did this in order to increase the number of witnesses, the more to publicize the matter written in the document. The document is therefore still forgeable.

קָסָבַר: כֹּל כִּי הַאי גַוְונָא – אֵין מְקַיְּימִין אוֹתוֹ מִן הָעֵדִים שֶׁלְּמַטָּה, אֶלָּא מִן הָעֵדִים שֶׁלְּמַעְלָה.

The Gemara answers: Rabbi Yoḥanan maintains that in all cases like this, where a document and its witnesses’ signatures are written on one line, followed by other signatures on subsequent lines, the court ratifies the document not on the basis of the signatures of the witnesses that are on the bottom, but on the basis of the signatures of the witnesses that are on top, on the same line as the text. Therefore, the forging of a document in this manner is impossible. The false signatures of the witnesses will be discovered when those witnesses attest to what they signed upon.

גּוּפָא – אָמַר רַב: שְׁטָר הַבָּא הוּא וְעֵדָיו עַל הַמְּחָק – כָּשֵׁר.

§ Having cited Rav’s statement, the Gemara discusses the matter itself. Rav says: A document that comes before the court in which its content and the signatures of its witnesses are both written over an erasure is valid.

Want to follow content and continue where you left off?

Create an account today to track your progress, mark what you’ve learned, and follow the shiurim that speak to you.

Clear all items from this list?

This will remove ALL the items in this section. You will lose any progress or history connected to them. This is irreversible.

Cancel
Yes, clear all

Are you sure you want to delete this item?

You will lose any progress or history connected to this item.

Cancel
Yes, delete