Search

Bava Batra 30

Want to dedicate learning? Get started here:

podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




Summary

Today’s daf is sponsored by Rina Bar David in loving memory of Daniel Natan ben Yocheved and Binyamin.

A debate between Rav Nachman and Rava is brought to contradict their ruling in the previous case. However, distinctions are made between the two cases and they conclude that there are no inconsistencies in their positions. Rava rules that if the original owner did not protest within three years of possession because they were out of town, and even when they were in town, they were busy with their business, their claim is accepted and there is no presumption of ownership for the possessor. Four cases are brought where the possessor claims presumption of ownership as they purchased the land and then lived there for three years. In each case, the original owner claims the seller had stolen the land and wasn’t the rightful owner. Each case varies slightly from the previous one. Rava ruled in each of these cases, usually siding with the one who claimed it was stolen property.

 

Bava Batra 30

דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: כׇּל נִכְסֵי דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין – מְזַבֵּינָא לָךְ. הֲוַאי הָהִיא אַרְעָא דַּהֲוָה מִיקְּרֵי ״דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין״. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָא לָאו דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין הִיא, וְאִיקְּרוֹיֵי הוּא דְּמִיקַּרְיָא ״דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין״. אֲתוֹ לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב נַחְמָן, אוֹקְמָא בִּידָא דְלוֹקֵחַ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא: דִּינָא הָכִי?! הַמּוֹצִיא מֵחֲבֵירוֹ עָלָיו הָרְאָיָה!

who said to another: I am hereby selling to you all of the property that I own of the house of bar Sisin. There was a certain parcel of land that was called: Of the house of bar Sisin. The seller said to the buyer: This parcel of land that I own is not actually of the house of bar Sisin, and it is merely called: Of the house of bar Sisin, and it is not included in the sale. They came before Rav Naḥman for judgment, and he established the land in the possession of the buyer. Rava said to Rav Naḥman: Is this the halakha? Isn’t the halakha that the burden of proof rests upon the claimant, and the land should remain in the possession of the seller?

קַשְׁיָא דְּרָבָא אַדְּרָבָא, קַשְׁיָא דְּרַב נַחְמָן אַדְּרַב נַחְמָן.

The Gemara continues: There is a difficulty from one statement of Rava to another statement of Rava, and there is also a difficulty from one statement of Rav Naḥman to another statement of Rav Naḥman, as in the first case, where the claimant states that he had been in a distant location, Rav Naḥman ruled in favor of the claimant, and Rava ruled in favor of the possessor; while in the second case, that of the property of bar Sisin, their opinions were reversed.

דְּרָבָא אַדְּרָבָא לָא קַשְׁיָא – הָתָם מוֹכֵר קָאֵי בְּנִכְסֵיהּ, הָכָא לוֹקֵחַ קָאֵי בְּנִיכְסֵיהּ.

The Gemara answers: The contradiction between one statement of Rava and another statement of Rava is not difficult, because there, in the case of the property of bar Sisin, the seller had been established as having the land in his property, which is why Rava rules in his favor. But here, in the case where the claimant states that he had been in a distant location, the buyer is established as having the house in his property.

דְּרַב נַחְמָן אַדְּרַב נַחְמָן נָמֵי לָא קַשְׁיָא – כֵּיוָן דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ: דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין, וּמִיקַּרְיָא ״דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין״, עֲלֵיהּ דִּידֵיהּ רַמְיָא לְגַלּוֹיֵי דְּלָאו דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין הִיא; אֲבָל הָכָא, לֹא יְהֵא אֶלָּא דְּנָקֵיט שְׁטָרָא – מִי לָא אָמְרִינַן לֵיהּ: קַיֵּים שְׁטָרָךְ וְקוּם בְּנִיכְסֵי?

The contradiction between one statement of Rav Naḥman and the other statement of Rav Naḥman is not difficult as well, because there, since the seller said to him: I am hereby selling you all of the property that I own of the house of bar Sisin, and this parcel of land is called: Of the house of bar Sisin, it is incumbent on him to reveal that the parcel under dispute is not of the house of bar Sisin. But here, in the case where the claimant states that he had been in a distant location, it should not be any different from a case where the possessor is holding a document as evidence that he purchased the house. Wouldn’t we then say to him: First ratify your document, and only then be established in the property? In this case as well, since his presumptive ownership is in place of a document, he needs to clarify the matter by means of witnesses.

הָהוּא דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי בֵּיתָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִינָּךְ זְבֵנְתֵּיהּ, וַאֲכַלְתֵּיהּ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּשׁוּקֵי בָּרָאֵי הֲוַאי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא אִית לִי סָהֲדִי דְּכֹל שַׁתָּא הֲוָה אָתֵית תְּלָתִין יוֹמֵי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: תְּלָתִין יוֹמֵי – בְּשׁוּקַאי הֲוָה טְרִידְנָא. אָמַר רָבָא: עֲבִיד אִינִישׁ דְּכֹל תְּלָתִין יוֹמֵי טְרִיד בְּשׁוּקָא.

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this house of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from you and I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: I was in the outer marketplaces, and was unaware that you were residing in my house, and therefore did not lodge a protest, so your profiting does not establish the presumption of ownership. The possessor said to him: But I have witnesses that every year you would come here for thirty days and had an opportunity to know that I was residing in your house and to lodge a protest. The claimant said to him: I was occupied with my business in the marketplaces for those thirty days. Rava said: A person is apt to be occupied with business in the marketplace for all of thirty days, and accepted his claim.

הָהוּא דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, דְּאָמַר לִי דְּזַבְנַהּ מִינָּךְ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַתְּ לָאו קָא מוֹדֵית

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so, who told me that he purchased it from you. The claimant said to him: Don’t you concede

דְּהַאי אַרְעָא דִּידִי הִיא, וְאַתְּ לָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ מִינַּאי? זִיל, לָאו בַּעַל דְּבָרִים דִּידִי אַתְּ. אָמַר רָבָא: דִּינָא קָאָמַר לֵיהּ.

that this land is formerly mine, and that you did not purchase it from me? Go away; I am not legally answerable to you. Rava said: The claimant stated the halakha to the possessor, as this is a legitimate claim, and Rava accepted his claim.

הָהוּא דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, וַאֲכַלְתִּיהָ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: פְּלָנְיָא גַּזְלָנָא הוּא.

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so and then I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: So-and-so is a robber who robbed me of the field, and he did not have the authority to sell it to you.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא אִית לִי סָהֲדִי דַּאֲתַאי אִימְּלַכִי בָּךְ, וַאֲמַרְתְּ לִי: ״זִיל זְבֹין״! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הַשֵּׁנִי נוֹחַ לִי; הָרִאשׁוֹן קָשֶׁה הֵימֶנּוּ. אָמַר רָבָא: דִּינָא קָאָמַר לֵיהּ.

The possessor said to him: But I have witnesses that I came and consulted with you, and you said to me: Go purchase the land, indicating that you conceded that he had the authority to sell it. The claimant said to him: The reason that I advised you to purchase it was because the second person, i.e., you, the possessor, is amenable to me, while the first, i.e., the purported thief, is more difficult than he, i.e., I prefer to litigate with you rather than with him. Rava said: The claimant stated the halakha to the possessor, as this is a legitimate claim, and Rava accepted his claim.

כְּמַאן, כְּאַדְמוֹן? דִּתְנַן: הָעוֹרֵר עַל הַשָּׂדֶה וְחָתוּם עָלֶיהָ בְּעֵד – אַדְמוֹן אוֹמֵר: הַשֵּׁנִי נוֹחַ לִי; הָרִאשׁוֹן קָשֶׁה הֵימֶנּוּ. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים: אִיבֵּד אֶת זְכוּתוֹ.

The Gemara asks: In accordance with whose opinion is Rava’s statement? Is it in accordance with the opinion of Admon? As we learned in a mishna (Ketubot 109a): With regard to one who contests ownership of a field, claiming that a field possessed by someone else actually belongs to him, and the claimant himself is signed as a witness on the bill of sale of the field to that other person, Admon says: His signature does not disprove his claim of ownership of the property, as it is possible that the claimant said to himself: The second person is amenable to me to deal with, as I can reason with him, while the first owner, who sold the field to the current possessor, is more difficult to deal with than he. And the Rabbis say: He lost his right to contest, as he signed a bill of sale that states that the field belongs to the possessor. Rava’s ruling appears to be in accordance with the individual opinion of Admon, and not with the opinion of the Rabbis.

אֲפִילּוּ תֵּימָא רַבָּנַן – הָתָם עֲבַד לֵיהּ מַעֲשֶׂה; אֲבָל הָכָא דִּבּוּרָא – עֲבִיד אִינִישׁ דְּמִיקְּרֵי וְאָמַר.

The Gemara explains: You may even say that Rava’s ruling is in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis. There, in the case of the mishna in tractate Ketubot, by signing the bill of sale the claimant performed an action indicating that the field was not his for the benefit of the possessor of the field, but here, in Rava’s case, there was no action, only speech, and a person is apt to casually say statements, and he does not lose his right by virtue of this.

הָהוּא דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, וַאֲכַלְתִּיהָ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: פְּלָנְיָא גַּזְלָנָא הוּא! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא אִית לִי סָהֲדִי דַּאֲתֵית בְּאוּרְתָּא, וַאֲמַרְתְּ לִי: זַבְנַהּ נִיהֲלִי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אָמֵינָא אֶיזְבּוֹן דִּינַאי. אָמַר רָבָא: עֲבִיד אִינִישׁ דְּזָבֵין דִּינֵיהּ.

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so and then I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: So-and-so is a robber who robbed me of the field, and he did not have the authority to sell it to you. The possessor said to him: But I have witnesses that you came to me at night and you said to me: Sell it to me, indicating that it is not your land, as if it were yours, you would have demanded that I return it without your paying for it. The claimant said to him: I said to myself: Let me purchase the benefit of avoiding my litigation in order to reclaim my land. Rava said: A person is apt to pay money to purchase the benefit of avoiding his litigation.

הָהוּא דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, וַאֲכַלְתִּיהָ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא נְקִיטְנָא שְׁטָרָא דִּזְבַנִי לַיהּ מִינֵּיהּ הָא אַרְבְּעִי שְׁנֵי!

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so and then I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership, indicating that he possessed it for three years, as this is the minimum number of years required for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: But I am holding a document stating that I purchased it from that seller four years ago. Therefore, if it was sold to you three years ago, as you claim, he did not have the authority to sell it at that time.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִי סָבְרַתְּ ״שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה״ – תְּלָת שְׁנֵי קָא אָמֵינָא?! שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה טוּבָא קָא אָמֵינָא. אָמַר רָבָא: עֲבִידִי אִינָשֵׁי דְּקָרוּ לִשְׁנֵי טוּבָא ״שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה״.

The possessor said to him: Do you maintain that when I said: I profited from the land for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership, that I was saying I worked and profited from the land for precisely three years? What I actually was saying was that I worked and profited from the land for many years and thereby established the presumption of ownership. Since my purchase predated yours, it was effective. Rava said: It is common for people to refer to many years as: Years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership, and his claim is accepted.

וְהָנֵי מִילֵּי דְּאַכְלַהּ שְׁבַע – דִּקְדֵים חֲזָקָה דְהַאי לִשְׁטָרָא דְהָךְ;

The Gemara comments: And this matter applies only if he profited from the land for seven years, so that presumptive ownership of this possessor preceded the document of that claimant.

Delve Deeper

Broaden your understanding of the topics on this daf with classes and podcasts from top women Talmud scholars.

For the Beyond the Daf shiurim offered in Hebrew, see here.

New to Talmud?

Check out our resources designed to help you navigate a page of Talmud – and study at the pace, level and style that fits you. 

The Hadran Women’s Tapestry

Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories. 

My first Talmud class experience was a weekly group in 1971 studying Taanit. In 2007 I resumed Talmud study with a weekly group I continue learning with. January 2020, I was inspired to try learning Daf Yomi. A friend introduced me to Daf Yomi for Women and Rabbanit Michelle Farber, I have kept with this program and look forward, G- willing, to complete the entire Shas with Hadran.
Lorri Lewis
Lorri Lewis

Palo Alto, CA, United States

A beautiful world of Talmudic sages now fill my daily life with discussion and debate.
bringing alive our traditions and texts that has brought new meaning to my life.
I am a מגילת אסתר reader for women . the words in the Mishna of מסכת megillah 17a
הקורא את המגילה למפרע לא יצא were powerful to me.
I hope to have the zchut to complete the cycle for my 70th birthday.

Sheila Hauser
Sheila Hauser

Jerusalem, Israel

Having never learned Talmud before, I started Daf Yomi in hopes of connecting to the Rabbinic tradition, sharing a daily idea on Instagram (@dafyomiadventures). With Hadran and Sefaria, I slowly gained confidence in my skills and understanding. Now, part of the Pardes Jewish Educators Program, I can’t wait to bring this love of learning with me as I continue to pass it on to my future students.

Hannah-G-pic
Hannah Greenberg

Pennsylvania, United States

I started learning daf in January, 2020, being inspired by watching the Siyyum Hashas in Binyanei Haumah. I wasn’t sure I would be able to keep up with the task. When I went to school, Gemara was not an option. Fast forward to March, 2022, and each day starts with the daf. The challenge is now learning the intricacies of delving into the actual learning. Hadran community, thank you!

Rochel Cheifetz
Rochel Cheifetz

Riverdale, NY, United States

Years ago, I attended the local Siyum HaShas with my high school class. It was inspiring! Through that cycle and the next one, I studied masekhtot on my own and then did “daf yomi practice.” The amazing Hadran Siyum HaShas event firmed my resolve to “really do” Daf Yomi this time. It has become a family goal. We’ve supported each other through challenges, and now we’re at the Siyum of Seder Moed!

Elisheva Brauner
Elisheva Brauner

Jerusalem, Israel

At almost 70 I am just beginning my journey with Talmud and Hadran. I began not late, but right when I was called to learn. It is never too late to begin! The understanding patience of staff and participants with more experience and knowledge has been fabulous. The joy of learning never stops and for me. It is a new life, a new light, a new depth of love of The Holy One, Blessed be He.
Deborah Hoffman-Wade
Deborah Hoffman-Wade

Richmond, CA, United States

I was inspired to start learning after attending the 2020 siyum in Binyanei Hauma. It has been a great experience for me. It’s amazing to see the origins of stories I’ve heard and rituals I’ve participated in my whole life. Even when I don’t understand the daf itself, I believe that the commitment to learning every day is valuable and has multiple benefits. And there will be another daf tomorrow!

Khaya Eisenberg
Khaya Eisenberg

Jerusalem, Israel

When I began learning Daf Yomi at the beginning of the current cycle, I was preparing for an upcoming surgery and thought that learning the Daf would be something positive I could do each day during my recovery, even if I accomplished nothing else. I had no idea what a lifeline learning the Daf would turn out to be in so many ways.

Laura Shechter
Laura Shechter

Lexington, MA, United States

I started last year after completing the Pesach Sugiyot class. Masechet Yoma might seem like a difficult set of topics, but for me made Yom Kippur and the Beit HaMikdash come alive. Liturgy I’d always had trouble connecting with took on new meaning as I gained a sense of real people moving through specific spaces in particular ways. It was the perfect introduction; I am so grateful for Hadran!

Debbie Engelen-Eigles
Debbie Engelen-Eigles

Minnesota, United States

Robin Zeiger
Robin Zeiger

Tel Aviv, Israel

I started learning at the beginning of the cycle after a friend persuaded me that it would be right up my alley. I was lucky enough to learn at Rabbanit Michelle’s house before it started on zoom and it was quickly part of my daily routine. I find it so important to see for myself where halachot were derived, where stories were told and to get more insight into how the Rabbis interacted.

Deborah Dickson
Deborah Dickson

Ra’anana, Israel

I heard the new Daf Yomi cycle was starting and I was curious, so I searched online for a women’s class and was pleasently surprised to find Rabanit Michelle’s great class reviews in many online articles. It has been a splendid journey. It is a way to fill my days with Torah, learning so many amazing things I have never heard before during my Tanach learning at High School. Thanks so much .

Martha Tarazi
Martha Tarazi

Panama, Panama

I went to day school in Toronto but really began to learn when I attended Brovenders back in the early 1980’s. Last year after talking to my sister who was learning Daf Yomi, inspired, I looked on the computer and the Hadran site came up. I have been listening to each days shiur in the morning as I work. I emphasis listening since I am not sitting with a Gamara. I listen while I work in my studio.

Rachel Rotenberg
Rachel Rotenberg

Tekoa, Israel

A Gemara shiur previous to the Hadran Siyum, was the impetus to attend it.It was highly inspirational and I was smitten. The message for me was התלמוד בידינו. I had decided along with my Chahsmonaim group to to do the daf and take it one daf at time- without any expectations at all. There has been a wealth of information, insights and halachik ideas. It is truly exercise of the mind, heart & Soul

Phyllis Hecht.jpeg
Phyllis Hecht

Hashmonaim, Israel

Shortly after the death of my father, David Malik z”l, I made the commitment to Daf Yomi. While riding to Ben Gurion airport in January, Siyum HaShas was playing on the radio; that was the nudge I needed to get started. The “everyday-ness” of the Daf has been a meaningful spiritual practice, especial after COVID began & I was temporarily unable to say Kaddish at daily in-person minyanim.

Lisa S. Malik
Lisa S. Malik

Wynnewood, United States

I saw an elderly man at the shul kiddush in early March 2020, celebrating the siyyum of masechet brachot which he had been learning with a young yeshiva student. I thought, if he can do it, I can do it! I began to learn masechet Shabbat the next day, Making up masechet brachot myself, which I had missed. I haven’t missed a day since, thanks to the ease of listening to Hadran’s podcast!
Judith Shapiro
Judith Shapiro

Minnesota, United States

Hearing and reading about the siyumim at the completion of the 13 th cycle Daf Yomi asked our shul rabbi about starting the Daf – he directed me to another shiur in town he thought would allow a woman to join, and so I did! Love seeing the sources for the Divrei Torah I’ve been hearing for the past decades of living an observant life and raising 5 children .

Jill Felder
Jill Felder

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States

After enthusing to my friend Ruth Kahan about how much I had enjoyed remote Jewish learning during the earlier part of the pandemic, she challenged me to join her in learning the daf yomi cycle. I had always wanted to do daf yomi but now had no excuse. The beginning was particularly hard as I had never studied Talmud but has become easier, as I have gained some familiarity with it.

Susan-Vishner-Hadran-photo-scaled
Susan Vishner

Brookline, United States

About a year into learning more about Judaism on a path to potential conversion, I saw an article about the upcoming Siyum HaShas in January of 2020. My curiosity was piqued and I immediately started investigating what learning the Daf actually meant. Daily learning? Just what I wanted. Seven and a half years? I love a challenge! So I dove in head first and I’ve enjoyed every moment!!
Nickie Matthews
Nickie Matthews

Blacksburg, United States

When I began the previous cycle, I promised myself that if I stuck with it, I would reward myself with a trip to Israel. Little did I know that the trip would involve attending the first ever women’s siyum and being inspired by so many learners. I am now over 2 years into my second cycle and being part of this large, diverse, fascinating learning family has enhanced my learning exponentially.

Shira Krebs
Shira Krebs

Minnesota, United States

Bava Batra 30

דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: כׇּל נִכְסֵי דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין – מְזַבֵּינָא לָךְ. הֲוַאי הָהִיא אַרְעָא דַּהֲוָה מִיקְּרֵי ״דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין״. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָא לָאו דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין הִיא, וְאִיקְּרוֹיֵי הוּא דְּמִיקַּרְיָא ״דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין״. אֲתוֹ לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב נַחְמָן, אוֹקְמָא בִּידָא דְלוֹקֵחַ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא: דִּינָא הָכִי?! הַמּוֹצִיא מֵחֲבֵירוֹ עָלָיו הָרְאָיָה!

who said to another: I am hereby selling to you all of the property that I own of the house of bar Sisin. There was a certain parcel of land that was called: Of the house of bar Sisin. The seller said to the buyer: This parcel of land that I own is not actually of the house of bar Sisin, and it is merely called: Of the house of bar Sisin, and it is not included in the sale. They came before Rav Naḥman for judgment, and he established the land in the possession of the buyer. Rava said to Rav Naḥman: Is this the halakha? Isn’t the halakha that the burden of proof rests upon the claimant, and the land should remain in the possession of the seller?

קַשְׁיָא דְּרָבָא אַדְּרָבָא, קַשְׁיָא דְּרַב נַחְמָן אַדְּרַב נַחְמָן.

The Gemara continues: There is a difficulty from one statement of Rava to another statement of Rava, and there is also a difficulty from one statement of Rav Naḥman to another statement of Rav Naḥman, as in the first case, where the claimant states that he had been in a distant location, Rav Naḥman ruled in favor of the claimant, and Rava ruled in favor of the possessor; while in the second case, that of the property of bar Sisin, their opinions were reversed.

דְּרָבָא אַדְּרָבָא לָא קַשְׁיָא – הָתָם מוֹכֵר קָאֵי בְּנִכְסֵיהּ, הָכָא לוֹקֵחַ קָאֵי בְּנִיכְסֵיהּ.

The Gemara answers: The contradiction between one statement of Rava and another statement of Rava is not difficult, because there, in the case of the property of bar Sisin, the seller had been established as having the land in his property, which is why Rava rules in his favor. But here, in the case where the claimant states that he had been in a distant location, the buyer is established as having the house in his property.

דְּרַב נַחְמָן אַדְּרַב נַחְמָן נָמֵי לָא קַשְׁיָא – כֵּיוָן דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ: דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין, וּמִיקַּרְיָא ״דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין״, עֲלֵיהּ דִּידֵיהּ רַמְיָא לְגַלּוֹיֵי דְּלָאו דְּבֵי בַּר סִיסִין הִיא; אֲבָל הָכָא, לֹא יְהֵא אֶלָּא דְּנָקֵיט שְׁטָרָא – מִי לָא אָמְרִינַן לֵיהּ: קַיֵּים שְׁטָרָךְ וְקוּם בְּנִיכְסֵי?

The contradiction between one statement of Rav Naḥman and the other statement of Rav Naḥman is not difficult as well, because there, since the seller said to him: I am hereby selling you all of the property that I own of the house of bar Sisin, and this parcel of land is called: Of the house of bar Sisin, it is incumbent on him to reveal that the parcel under dispute is not of the house of bar Sisin. But here, in the case where the claimant states that he had been in a distant location, it should not be any different from a case where the possessor is holding a document as evidence that he purchased the house. Wouldn’t we then say to him: First ratify your document, and only then be established in the property? In this case as well, since his presumptive ownership is in place of a document, he needs to clarify the matter by means of witnesses.

הָהוּא דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי בֵּיתָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִינָּךְ זְבֵנְתֵּיהּ, וַאֲכַלְתֵּיהּ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּשׁוּקֵי בָּרָאֵי הֲוַאי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא אִית לִי סָהֲדִי דְּכֹל שַׁתָּא הֲוָה אָתֵית תְּלָתִין יוֹמֵי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: תְּלָתִין יוֹמֵי – בְּשׁוּקַאי הֲוָה טְרִידְנָא. אָמַר רָבָא: עֲבִיד אִינִישׁ דְּכֹל תְּלָתִין יוֹמֵי טְרִיד בְּשׁוּקָא.

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this house of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from you and I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: I was in the outer marketplaces, and was unaware that you were residing in my house, and therefore did not lodge a protest, so your profiting does not establish the presumption of ownership. The possessor said to him: But I have witnesses that every year you would come here for thirty days and had an opportunity to know that I was residing in your house and to lodge a protest. The claimant said to him: I was occupied with my business in the marketplaces for those thirty days. Rava said: A person is apt to be occupied with business in the marketplace for all of thirty days, and accepted his claim.

הָהוּא דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, דְּאָמַר לִי דְּזַבְנַהּ מִינָּךְ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַתְּ לָאו קָא מוֹדֵית

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so, who told me that he purchased it from you. The claimant said to him: Don’t you concede

דְּהַאי אַרְעָא דִּידִי הִיא, וְאַתְּ לָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ מִינַּאי? זִיל, לָאו בַּעַל דְּבָרִים דִּידִי אַתְּ. אָמַר רָבָא: דִּינָא קָאָמַר לֵיהּ.

that this land is formerly mine, and that you did not purchase it from me? Go away; I am not legally answerable to you. Rava said: The claimant stated the halakha to the possessor, as this is a legitimate claim, and Rava accepted his claim.

הָהוּא דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, וַאֲכַלְתִּיהָ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: פְּלָנְיָא גַּזְלָנָא הוּא.

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so and then I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: So-and-so is a robber who robbed me of the field, and he did not have the authority to sell it to you.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא אִית לִי סָהֲדִי דַּאֲתַאי אִימְּלַכִי בָּךְ, וַאֲמַרְתְּ לִי: ״זִיל זְבֹין״! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הַשֵּׁנִי נוֹחַ לִי; הָרִאשׁוֹן קָשֶׁה הֵימֶנּוּ. אָמַר רָבָא: דִּינָא קָאָמַר לֵיהּ.

The possessor said to him: But I have witnesses that I came and consulted with you, and you said to me: Go purchase the land, indicating that you conceded that he had the authority to sell it. The claimant said to him: The reason that I advised you to purchase it was because the second person, i.e., you, the possessor, is amenable to me, while the first, i.e., the purported thief, is more difficult than he, i.e., I prefer to litigate with you rather than with him. Rava said: The claimant stated the halakha to the possessor, as this is a legitimate claim, and Rava accepted his claim.

כְּמַאן, כְּאַדְמוֹן? דִּתְנַן: הָעוֹרֵר עַל הַשָּׂדֶה וְחָתוּם עָלֶיהָ בְּעֵד – אַדְמוֹן אוֹמֵר: הַשֵּׁנִי נוֹחַ לִי; הָרִאשׁוֹן קָשֶׁה הֵימֶנּוּ. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים: אִיבֵּד אֶת זְכוּתוֹ.

The Gemara asks: In accordance with whose opinion is Rava’s statement? Is it in accordance with the opinion of Admon? As we learned in a mishna (Ketubot 109a): With regard to one who contests ownership of a field, claiming that a field possessed by someone else actually belongs to him, and the claimant himself is signed as a witness on the bill of sale of the field to that other person, Admon says: His signature does not disprove his claim of ownership of the property, as it is possible that the claimant said to himself: The second person is amenable to me to deal with, as I can reason with him, while the first owner, who sold the field to the current possessor, is more difficult to deal with than he. And the Rabbis say: He lost his right to contest, as he signed a bill of sale that states that the field belongs to the possessor. Rava’s ruling appears to be in accordance with the individual opinion of Admon, and not with the opinion of the Rabbis.

אֲפִילּוּ תֵּימָא רַבָּנַן – הָתָם עֲבַד לֵיהּ מַעֲשֶׂה; אֲבָל הָכָא דִּבּוּרָא – עֲבִיד אִינִישׁ דְּמִיקְּרֵי וְאָמַר.

The Gemara explains: You may even say that Rava’s ruling is in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis. There, in the case of the mishna in tractate Ketubot, by signing the bill of sale the claimant performed an action indicating that the field was not his for the benefit of the possessor of the field, but here, in Rava’s case, there was no action, only speech, and a person is apt to casually say statements, and he does not lose his right by virtue of this.

הָהוּא דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, וַאֲכַלְתִּיהָ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: פְּלָנְיָא גַּזְלָנָא הוּא! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא אִית לִי סָהֲדִי דַּאֲתֵית בְּאוּרְתָּא, וַאֲמַרְתְּ לִי: זַבְנַהּ נִיהֲלִי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אָמֵינָא אֶיזְבּוֹן דִּינַאי. אָמַר רָבָא: עֲבִיד אִינִישׁ דְּזָבֵין דִּינֵיהּ.

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so and then I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: So-and-so is a robber who robbed me of the field, and he did not have the authority to sell it to you. The possessor said to him: But I have witnesses that you came to me at night and you said to me: Sell it to me, indicating that it is not your land, as if it were yours, you would have demanded that I return it without your paying for it. The claimant said to him: I said to myself: Let me purchase the benefit of avoiding my litigation in order to reclaim my land. Rava said: A person is apt to pay money to purchase the benefit of avoiding his litigation.

הָהוּא דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ לְחַבְרֵיהּ: מַאי בָּעֵית בְּהַאי אַרְעָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִפְּלָנְיָא זְבֵינְתַּהּ, וַאֲכַלְתִּיהָ שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְהָא נְקִיטְנָא שְׁטָרָא דִּזְבַנִי לַיהּ מִינֵּיהּ הָא אַרְבְּעִי שְׁנֵי!

There was a certain person who said to another: What do you want with this land of mine? The possessor said to him: I purchased it from so-and-so and then I worked and profited from it for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership, indicating that he possessed it for three years, as this is the minimum number of years required for establishing the presumption of ownership. The claimant said to him: But I am holding a document stating that I purchased it from that seller four years ago. Therefore, if it was sold to you three years ago, as you claim, he did not have the authority to sell it at that time.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִי סָבְרַתְּ ״שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה״ – תְּלָת שְׁנֵי קָא אָמֵינָא?! שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה טוּבָא קָא אָמֵינָא. אָמַר רָבָא: עֲבִידִי אִינָשֵׁי דְּקָרוּ לִשְׁנֵי טוּבָא ״שְׁנֵי חֲזָקָה״.

The possessor said to him: Do you maintain that when I said: I profited from the land for the years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership, that I was saying I worked and profited from the land for precisely three years? What I actually was saying was that I worked and profited from the land for many years and thereby established the presumption of ownership. Since my purchase predated yours, it was effective. Rava said: It is common for people to refer to many years as: Years necessary for establishing the presumption of ownership, and his claim is accepted.

וְהָנֵי מִילֵּי דְּאַכְלַהּ שְׁבַע – דִּקְדֵים חֲזָקָה דְהַאי לִשְׁטָרָא דְהָךְ;

The Gemara comments: And this matter applies only if he profited from the land for seven years, so that presumptive ownership of this possessor preceded the document of that claimant.

Want to follow content and continue where you left off?

Create an account today to track your progress, mark what you’ve learned, and follow the shiurim that speak to you.

Clear all items from this list?

This will remove ALL the items in this section. You will lose any progress or history connected to them. This is irreversible.

Cancel
Yes, clear all

Are you sure you want to delete this item?

You will lose any progress or history connected to this item.

Cancel
Yes, delete