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Bava Batra 86

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Summary

Today’s daf is sponsored by Penina Lipskier in honor of her son’s wedding, Daniel to Ella and in loving memory of his friends, Yakir Hexter and David Schwartz HY”D who were killed during the war. “May we only know smachot!”

Today’s daf is sponsored by Beth Kissileff Perlman and Rabbi Jonathan Perlman in honor of the occasion of their daughter Yael Perlman and her new husband Matt Shapiro making aliyah to Jerusalem on Sunday! “We are so proud of their decision and look forward to sharing their experiences of their new life in our holy land!” 

Ravina suggests to Rav Ashi a fourth response to Rav Sheshet’s question, can an item can be acquired by the buyer when it is placed in the buyer’s vessels on the property of the seller? However, this too is rejected and the question is left unanswered.

The Mishna in Kiddushin Chapter 1, Mishna 5 established that moveable items can be acquired by pulling. However, it is limited by either Rav Chisda, Rav Kahana, or Rava to a case where the item cannot be lifted. When Abaye taught this qualification of the Mishna, Rav Ada bar Matna raised a difficulty against it from a tannaitic source. Three other sources are also brought to question this limitation, but all the difficulties are resolved.

Rav and Shmuel differentiate between a case where the seller says, “I am selling you a kor (30 se’ah) of wheat for 30 sela” and one where the seller says, “I am selling you a kor for 30 sela, each se’ah for a zuz.” In the former, the sale is final only when the measuring is complete, in the latter, the sale is final for each se’ah as it goes into the measuring cup. A difficulty is raised against the first case from a braita quoted previously where the sale is final even before filling up the cup, provided the cup used was the buyer’s. This difficulty is resolved by assuming the braita refers to a case more similar to the latter case of Rav and Shmuel.

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Bava Batra 86

פֵּירְקָן וְהִכְנִיסָן לְתוֹךְ בֵּיתוֹ; פָּסַק עַד שֶׁלֹּא מָדַד – אֵין שְׁנֵיהֶן יְכוֹלִין לַחֲזוֹר בָּהֶן, מָדַד עַד שֶׁלֹּא פָּסַק – שְׁנֵיהֶן יְכוֹלִין לַחֲזוֹר בָּהֶן. וּמִדְּכִלְיוֹ דְמוֹכֵר בִּרְשׁוּת לוֹקֵחַ – לֹא קָנָה, כִּלְיוֹ דְלוֹקֵחַ נָמֵי – בִּרְשׁוּת מוֹכֵר לֹא קָנָה!

But in a case where he unloaded the merchandise from them and brought it into his house, if he fixed a price before he measured the merchandise, both parties are no longer able to renege on the sale. If he measured the merchandise before fixing a price, both of them are able to renege on the sale. The Gemara comments: And from the fact that the vessels of the seller when in the domain of the buyer do not effect acquisition of the merchandise for the seller, i.e., they do not prevent the buyer from acquiring the merchandise, one can derive that the vessels of the buyer in the domain of the seller do not effect acquisition of the merchandise on his behalf as well.

אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: בְּשֶׁשְּׁפָכָן. אִיקְּפַד רָבָא – מִידֵּי ״שְׁפָכָן״ קָתָנֵי?! ״פֵּירְקָן״ קָתָנֵי! אֶלָּא אָמַר מָר בַּר רַב אָשֵׁי: בִּמְתַאכְּלֵי דְתוּמֵי.

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: The merchandise was not placed in the domain of the buyer in vessels belonging to the seller. Rather, the baraita is referring to a case where he emptied the vessels onto the ground. Conversely, if the merchandise remains in the seller’s vessels, the buyer does not acquire it. Rava became angry with Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak at his rejection of Rava’s proof, and retorted: Does the baraita teach: He emptied them? No; it teaches: He unloaded them, i.e., he kept the goods in vessels belonging to the seller. Rather, Mar bar Rav Ashi says: This proof can be rejected by means of a different interpretation, as the halakha of the baraita does not refer to vessels full of goods but is stated with regard to bundles of garlic that were tied together. Therefore, they are unloaded straight onto the floor in the buyer’s domain.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּמָר זוּטְרָא לְרָבִינָא: מִכְּדֵי ״פֵּירְקָן״ קָתָנֵי; מָה לִי פָּסַק וּמָה לִי לֹא פָּסַק? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: פָּסַק – סָמְכָא דַּעְתֵּיהּ, לֹא פָּסַק – לָא סָמְכָא דַּעְתֵּיהּ.

With regard to the matter itself, Huna, son of Mar Zutra, said to Ravina: Since the baraita teaches: He unloaded them, which indicates that unloading the merchandise constitutes the act of acquisition, what difference is there to me if he fixed a price, and what difference is there to me if he did not fix a price? Ravina said to him: If he fixed a price he has made up his mind to sell, and therefore the transaction can take place. If he did not fix a price, he has not made up his mind to sell and the transaction does not occur. In any event, no convincing proof has been found with regard to the halakha in a case where the vessels of the buyer are in the domain of the seller.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי: תָּא שְׁמַע, דְּרַב וּשְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ: כִּלְיוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם קוֹנֶה לוֹ בְּכׇל מָקוֹם. לְאֵתוֹיֵי מַאי? לָאו לְאֵתוֹיֵי רְשׁוּת מוֹכֵר? הָתָם, דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ: זִיל קְנִי.

Ravina said to Rav Ashi: Come and hear a resolution, as Rav and Shmuel both say: A person’s vessel effects acquisition for him of any item placed inside it, in any place that it is situated. What is added by the phrase: In any place? Does it not serve to add the domain of the seller? Rav Ashi answered: There, it is referring to a specific case, where the seller said to him: Go and acquire it. In that situation, the buyer does acquire the merchandise. This does not refer to a standard case where the buyer’s vessels are located in the domain of the seller.

תְּנַן הָתָם: נְכָסִים שֶׁיֵּשׁ לָהֶן אַחְרָיוּת – נִקְנִין בְּכֶסֶף וּבִשְׁטָר וּבַחֲזָקָה, וְשֶׁאֵין לָהֶן אַחְרָיוּת – אֵין נִקְנִין אֶלָּא בִּמְשִׁיכָה. בְּסוּרָא מַתְנוּ לַהּ לְהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַב חִסְדָּא; בְּפוּמְבְּדִיתָא מַתְנוּ לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַב כָּהֲנָא, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרָבָא: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא דְּבָרִים שֶׁאֵין דַּרְכָּן לְהַגְבִּיהַּ, אֲבָל דְּבָרִים שֶׁדַּרְכָּן לְהַגְבִּיהַּ – בְּהַגְבָּהָה אִין, בִּמְשִׁיכָה לָא.

§ We learned in a mishna elsewhere (Kiddushin 26a): Property that is guaranteed, i.e., land, is acquired by means of money, or by means of a bill, or by taking possession of it. And property that does not have a guarantee, i.e., movable property, can be acquired only by means of pulling. In Sura they taught this following halakha in the name of Rav Ḥisda, while in Pumbedita they taught it in the name of Rav Kahana, and some say in the name of Rava: They taught that movable property is acquired by means of pulling only with regard to items that are not typically lifted due to their weight or for some other reason. But in the case of items that are typically lifted, then yes, they are acquired by means of lifting, but they are not acquired by means of pulling.

יְתֵיב אַבָּיֵי וְקָאָמַר לְהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא; אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רַב אַדָּא בַּר מַתְנָה לְאַבָּיֵי: הַגּוֹנֵב כִּיס בְּשַׁבָּת – חַיָּיב, שֶׁכְּבָר נִתְחַיֵּיב בִּגְנֵיבָה קוֹדֶם שֶׁיָּבֹא לִידֵי אִיסּוּר שַׁבָּת.

Abaye sat and related this halakha. Rav Adda bar Mattana raised an objection to Abaye from a baraita: One who steals a purse on Shabbat is liable for theft. Based on the principle that one who is liable to receive two punishments receives only the greater of the two, in this case one might think that he should be exempt from paying for the theft, as the performance of a prohibited labor on Shabbat is punishable by death. The reason he is liable in this case, in apparent contradiction to that principle, is that he already became liable for the theft as soon as he lifted the purse. This occurred before he came to violate the prohibition of performing prohibited labor on Shabbat by carrying the purse into the public domain.

הָיָה מְגָרֵר וְיוֹצֵא מְגָרֵר וְיוֹצֵא – פָּטוּר, שֶׁהֲרֵי אִיסּוּר שַׁבָּת וּגְנֵיבָה בָּאִין כְּאֶחָד.

The baraita continues: If he did not lift the purse but was dragging it on the ground and exiting the private domain, continuously dragging and exiting, he is exempt, as the prohibition of performing labor on Shabbat and the prohibition of theft are violated simultaneously the moment he drags the purse out of the owner’s property into the public domain. Therefore, he receives only the greater punishment, death, for carrying on Shabbat.

וַהֲרֵי כִּיס – דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה הוּא, וַאֲפִילּוּ הָכִי קָנֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּמִיתְנָא. אֲנָא נָמֵי בְּמִיתְנָא קָא אָמֵינָא! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּמִידֵּי דְּבָעֵי מִיתְנָא.

Rav Adda bar Mattana explains his objection: But a purse is an item that can be lifted, and even so it is apparent from the baraita that one acquires it by means of pulling. How then can it be stated that items that are typically lifted are not acquired by pulling? Abaye said to him: The baraita is referring to a case where the thief pulled the purse with a rope. Rav Adda bar Mattana thought that Abaye meant that the thief happened to drag it with a rope, and he responded: I also state my question even in a case where he pulled the purse with a rope, as it is still evident that one can acquire the purse by means of pulling instead of lifting. Abaye said to him: I meant that the baraita is referring to an item that requires a rope. It is a purse that is so large that it cannot be lifted and must be pulled, therefore it is acquired by means of pulling.

תָּא שְׁמַע: בִּרְשׁוּת מוֹכֵר – לֹא קָנָה עַד שֶׁיַּגְבִּיהֶנָּה, אוֹ עַד שֶׁיּוֹצִיאֶנָּה מֵרְשׁוּתוֹ. אַלְמָא, מִידֵּי דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה – אִי בָּעֵי בְּהַגְבָּהָה קָנֵי לֵיהּ, וְאִי בָּעֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה קָנֵי לֵיהּ! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: לִצְדָדִין קָתָנֵי – מִידֵּי דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה, בְּהַגְבָּהָה; מִידֵּי דְּבַר מְשִׁיכָה, בִּמְשִׁיכָה.

The Gemara raises another objection. Come and hear: If the merchandise is in the domain of the seller, the buyer does not acquire the merchandise until he lifts it or until he removes it from the domain of the seller. Apparently, with regard to an item that can be lifted, if he so desires he acquires it by lifting, and if he so desires he acquires it by pulling. Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: This is not a proof, as it can be explained that the tanna teaches it disjunctively, i.e., the two options are referring to two different cases: In the case of an item that can be lifted, he acquires it by lifting, whereas with regard to regard to an item that can be pulled, he acquires it by pulling.

תָּא שְׁמַע: הַמּוֹכֵר פֵּירוֹת לַחֲבֵירוֹ, מָשַׁךְ וְלֹא מָדַד – קָנֵי. וְהָא פֵּירוֹת, דִּבְנֵי הַגְבָּהָה נִינְהוּ, וְקָתָנֵי דְּקָנֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה!

The Gemara suggests: Come and hear a proof from the mishna (84b) that even items that are usually lifted can be acquired by means of pulling: With regard to one who sells produce to another, if the buyer pulled the produce but did not measure it, he has acquired it. The Gemara explains the proof: But produce can be lifted, and yet the mishna teaches that it is acquired by means of pulling.

הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן – בִּשְׁלִיפֵי רַבְרְבֵי. אִי הָכִי, אֵימָא סֵיפָא: הַלּוֹקֵחַ פִּשְׁתָּן מֵחֲבֵירוֹ – לֹא קָנָה עַד שֶׁיְּטַלְטְלֶנּוּ מִמָּקוֹם זֶה לְמָקוֹם אַחֵר. אַטּוּ פִּשְׁתָּן בִּשְׁלִיפֵי רַבְרְבֵי מִי לָא עָבְדִי?! שָׁאנֵי פִּשְׁתָּן – דְּמִשְׁתְּמִיט.

The Gemara rejects this proof: With what are we dealing here? We are dealing with large bundles that are pulled from place to place and are not carried, due to their size. The Gemara asks: If that is so, say the latter clause of the mishna: One who buys flax from another has not acquired it until he carries it from this place to another place, i.e., it is acquired only though lifting and not through pulling. Is that to say that flax is not prepared in large bundles? The Gemara answers: Yes, flax is different. Unlike other produce, flax is not packed in large bundles, as it would slip from its place. Rather, it is packed in small bundles, and therefore flax is acquired specifically through lifting.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי, תָּא שְׁמַע: בְּהֵמָה גַּסָּה נִקְנֵית בִּמְסִירָה, וְהַדַּקָּה – בְּהַגְבָּהָה; דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר וְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים: בְּהֵמָה דַּקָּה – בִּמְשִׁיכָה. וְהָא בְּהֵמָה דַּקָּה, דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה הִיא, וְקָתָנֵי דְּקָנֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה! שָׁאנֵי בְּהֵמָה, דְּסָרְכָא.

Ravina said to Rav Ashi: Come and hear a proof from a mishna (Kiddushin 25b): Large domesticated animals are acquired through passing the animal’s leash to the buyer, and small domesticated animals are acquired through lifting; this is the statement of Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar. And the Rabbis say: Small domesticated animals are acquired through pulling. Ravina explains the proof: But small domesticated animals are creatures that can be lifted, and yet the mishna teaches that one acquires them through pulling. Rav Ashi rejected this proof: Domesticated animals are different, as they cling to the ground and it is difficult to lift them. Therefore, the usual manner of moving animals is to pull them.

רַב וּשְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ: ״כּוֹר בִּשְׁלֹשִׁים אֲנִי מוֹכֵר לָךְ״ – יָכוֹל לַחֲזוֹר בּוֹ, אֲפִילּוּ בִּסְאָה הָאַחֲרוֹנָה. ״כּוֹר בִּשְׁלֹשִׁים – סְאָה בְּסֶלַע אֲנִי מוֹכֵר לָךְ״ – רִאשׁוֹן רִאשׁוֹן קָנָה.

§ The Gemara cites another case with regard to sales. Rav and Shmuel both say: If a seller said to a buyer: I am selling you one kor, a measure equivalent to thirty se’a, of grain for the price of thirty sela, the seller can renege on the sale as long as the measuring vessel is not filled, even when only the last se’a has yet to be measured, because he had agreed to sell only a complete kor. By contrast, if the seller said: I am selling you one kor for thirty sela and each se’a is sold for one sela, he cannot completely renege on the sale in the middle of the transaction. This is because the buyer acquires each se’a one by one as it is measured, since the seller sold each se’a individually.

תָּא שְׁמַע: אִם הָיְתָה מִדָּה שֶׁל אֶחָד מֵהֶן – רִאשׁוֹן רִאשׁוֹן קָנָה. וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּלֹא נִתְמַלְּאָה הַמִּדָּה!

The Gemara raises a difficulty from the baraita cited on 85a. Come and hear: If the measuring vessel belonged to one of them, the buyer acquires the items of sale one by one. And since this halakha is stated in general terms, it indicates that the buyer acquires each item as it is placed in the measuring vessel, even though the measuring vessel was not filled.

כְּגוֹן דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ: ״הִין בִּשְׁנֵים עָשָׂר סְלָעִים – לוֹג בְּסֶלַע אֲנִי מוֹכֵר לָךְ״; וְכִדְאָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: שְׁנָתוֹת הָיוּ בַּהִין, הָכָא נָמֵי – שְׁנָתוֹת הָיוּ בַּמִּדּוֹת.

The Gemara answers: The baraita is referring to a case where the seller said to him: I am selling you one hin, a liquid measure equivalent to twelve log, for twelve sela, each log for one sela. And this is in accordance with an observation that Rav Kahana says: In the Temple there were markings on the vessel that measured hin, with which one could measure the different libations. Here too, there were markings on the measuring vessels, and since the measuring vessel indicates at which point each log had been filled, the buyer acquires it. This is comparable to the case of one who sells each se’a individually.

תָּא שְׁמַע: הַשּׂוֹכֵר אֶת הַפּוֹעֵל לַעֲשׂוֹת עִמּוֹ לַגּוֹרֶן הַיּוֹם בְּדִינָר,

The Gemara raises another difficulty. Come and hear: One who hires a laborer in the winter or the spring to work for him in the harvest, for one dinar a day,

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Rhona Fink

San Diego, United States

I started learning when my brother sent me the news clip of the celebration of the last Daf Yomi cycle. I was so floored to see so many women celebrating that I wanted to be a part of it. It has been an enriching experience studying a text in a language I don’t speak, using background knowledge that I don’t have. It is stretching my learning in unexpected ways, bringing me joy and satisfaction.

Jodi Gladstone
Jodi Gladstone

Warwick, Rhode Island, United States

I started my journey on the day I realized that the Siyum was happening in Yerushalayim and I was missing out. What? I told myself. How could I have not known about this? How can I have missed out on this opportunity? I decided that moment, I would start Daf Yomi and Nach Yomi the very next day. I am so grateful to Hadran. I am changed forever because I learn Gemara with women. Thank you.

Linda Brownstein
Linda Brownstein

Mitspe, Israel

I started learning Daf Yomi inspired by תָּפַסְתָּ מְרוּבֶּה לֹא תָּפַסְתָּ, תָּפַסְתָּ מוּעָט תָּפַסְתָּ. I thought I’d start the first page, and then see. I was swept up into the enthusiasm of the Hadran Siyum, and from there the momentum kept building. Rabbanit Michelle’s shiur gives me an anchor, a connection to an incredible virtual community, and an energy to face whatever the day brings.

Medinah Korn
Medinah Korn

בית שמש, Israel

Attending the Siyyum in Jerusalem 26 months ago inspired me to become part of this community of learners. So many aspects of Jewish life have been illuminated by what we have learned in Seder Moed. My day is not complete without daf Yomi. I am so grateful to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Community.

Nancy Kolodny
Nancy Kolodny

Newton, United States

In January 2020, my chevruta suggested that we “up our game. Let’s do Daf Yomi” – and she sent me the Hadran link. I lost my job (and went freelance), there was a pandemic, and I am still opening the podcast with my breakfast coffee, or after Shabbat with popcorn. My Aramaic is improving. I will need a new bookcase, though.

Rhondda May
Rhondda May

Atlanta, Georgia, United States

I LOVE learning the Daf. I started with Shabbat. I join the morning Zoom with Reb Michelle and it totally grounds my day. When Corona hit us in Israel, I decided that I would use the Daf to keep myself sane, especially during the days when we could not venture out more than 300 m from our home. Now my husband and I have so much new material to talk about! It really is the best part of my day!

Batsheva Pava
Batsheva Pava

Hashmonaim, Israel

Hearing and reading about the siyumim at the completion of the 13 th cycle Daf Yomi asked our shul rabbi about starting the Daf – he directed me to another shiur in town he thought would allow a woman to join, and so I did! Love seeing the sources for the Divrei Torah I’ve been hearing for the past decades of living an observant life and raising 5 children .

Jill Felder
Jill Felder

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States

Inspired by Hadran’s first Siyum ha Shas L’Nashim two years ago, I began daf yomi right after for the next cycle. As to this extraordinary journey together with Hadran..as TS Eliot wrote “We must not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we began and to know the place for the first time.

Susan Handelman
Susan Handelman

Jerusalem, Israel

I started learning daf in January, 2020, being inspired by watching the Siyyum Hashas in Binyanei Haumah. I wasn’t sure I would be able to keep up with the task. When I went to school, Gemara was not an option. Fast forward to March, 2022, and each day starts with the daf. The challenge is now learning the intricacies of delving into the actual learning. Hadran community, thank you!

Rochel Cheifetz
Rochel Cheifetz

Riverdale, NY, United States

I heard about the syium in January 2020 & I was excited to start learning then the pandemic started. Learning Daf became something to focus on but also something stressful. As the world changed around me & my family I had to adjust my expectations for myself & the world. Daf Yomi & the Hadran podcast has been something I look forward to every day. It gives me a moment of centering & Judaism daily.

Talia Haykin
Talia Haykin

Denver, United States

It has been a pleasure keeping pace with this wonderful and scholarly group of women.

Janice Block
Janice Block

Beit Shemesh, Israel

In July, 2012 I wrote for Tablet about the first all women’s siyum at Matan in Jerusalem, with 100 women. At the time, I thought, I would like to start with the next cycle – listening to a podcast at different times of day makes it possible. It is incredible that after 10 years, so many women are so engaged!

Beth Kissileff
Beth Kissileff

Pittsburgh, United States

About a year into learning more about Judaism on a path to potential conversion, I saw an article about the upcoming Siyum HaShas in January of 2020. My curiosity was piqued and I immediately started investigating what learning the Daf actually meant. Daily learning? Just what I wanted. Seven and a half years? I love a challenge! So I dove in head first and I’ve enjoyed every moment!!
Nickie Matthews
Nickie Matthews

Blacksburg, United States

I have joined the community of daf yomi learners at the start of this cycle. I have studied in different ways – by reading the page, translating the page, attending a local shiur and listening to Rabbanit Farber’s podcasts, depending on circumstances and where I was at the time. The reactions have been positive throughout – with no exception!

Silke Goldberg
Silke Goldberg

Guildford, United Kingdom

I started last year after completing the Pesach Sugiyot class. Masechet Yoma might seem like a difficult set of topics, but for me made Yom Kippur and the Beit HaMikdash come alive. Liturgy I’d always had trouble connecting with took on new meaning as I gained a sense of real people moving through specific spaces in particular ways. It was the perfect introduction; I am so grateful for Hadran!

Debbie Engelen-Eigles
Debbie Engelen-Eigles

Minnesota, United States

I LOVE learning the Daf. I started with Shabbat. I join the morning Zoom with Reb Michelle and it totally grounds my day. When Corona hit us in Israel, I decided that I would use the Daf to keep myself sane, especially during the days when we could not venture out more than 300 m from our home. Now my husband and I have so much new material to talk about! It really is the best part of my day!

Batsheva Pava
Batsheva Pava

Hashmonaim, Israel

Bava Batra 86

פֵּירְקָן וְהִכְנִיסָן לְתוֹךְ בֵּיתוֹ; פָּסַק עַד שֶׁלֹּא מָדַד – אֵין שְׁנֵיהֶן יְכוֹלִין לַחֲזוֹר בָּהֶן, מָדַד עַד שֶׁלֹּא פָּסַק – שְׁנֵיהֶן יְכוֹלִין לַחֲזוֹר בָּהֶן. וּמִדְּכִלְיוֹ דְמוֹכֵר בִּרְשׁוּת לוֹקֵחַ – לֹא קָנָה, כִּלְיוֹ דְלוֹקֵחַ נָמֵי – בִּרְשׁוּת מוֹכֵר לֹא קָנָה!

But in a case where he unloaded the merchandise from them and brought it into his house, if he fixed a price before he measured the merchandise, both parties are no longer able to renege on the sale. If he measured the merchandise before fixing a price, both of them are able to renege on the sale. The Gemara comments: And from the fact that the vessels of the seller when in the domain of the buyer do not effect acquisition of the merchandise for the seller, i.e., they do not prevent the buyer from acquiring the merchandise, one can derive that the vessels of the buyer in the domain of the seller do not effect acquisition of the merchandise on his behalf as well.

אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: בְּשֶׁשְּׁפָכָן. אִיקְּפַד רָבָא – מִידֵּי ״שְׁפָכָן״ קָתָנֵי?! ״פֵּירְקָן״ קָתָנֵי! אֶלָּא אָמַר מָר בַּר רַב אָשֵׁי: בִּמְתַאכְּלֵי דְתוּמֵי.

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: The merchandise was not placed in the domain of the buyer in vessels belonging to the seller. Rather, the baraita is referring to a case where he emptied the vessels onto the ground. Conversely, if the merchandise remains in the seller’s vessels, the buyer does not acquire it. Rava became angry with Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak at his rejection of Rava’s proof, and retorted: Does the baraita teach: He emptied them? No; it teaches: He unloaded them, i.e., he kept the goods in vessels belonging to the seller. Rather, Mar bar Rav Ashi says: This proof can be rejected by means of a different interpretation, as the halakha of the baraita does not refer to vessels full of goods but is stated with regard to bundles of garlic that were tied together. Therefore, they are unloaded straight onto the floor in the buyer’s domain.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּמָר זוּטְרָא לְרָבִינָא: מִכְּדֵי ״פֵּירְקָן״ קָתָנֵי; מָה לִי פָּסַק וּמָה לִי לֹא פָּסַק? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: פָּסַק – סָמְכָא דַּעְתֵּיהּ, לֹא פָּסַק – לָא סָמְכָא דַּעְתֵּיהּ.

With regard to the matter itself, Huna, son of Mar Zutra, said to Ravina: Since the baraita teaches: He unloaded them, which indicates that unloading the merchandise constitutes the act of acquisition, what difference is there to me if he fixed a price, and what difference is there to me if he did not fix a price? Ravina said to him: If he fixed a price he has made up his mind to sell, and therefore the transaction can take place. If he did not fix a price, he has not made up his mind to sell and the transaction does not occur. In any event, no convincing proof has been found with regard to the halakha in a case where the vessels of the buyer are in the domain of the seller.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי: תָּא שְׁמַע, דְּרַב וּשְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ: כִּלְיוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם קוֹנֶה לוֹ בְּכׇל מָקוֹם. לְאֵתוֹיֵי מַאי? לָאו לְאֵתוֹיֵי רְשׁוּת מוֹכֵר? הָתָם, דְּאָמַר לֵיהּ: זִיל קְנִי.

Ravina said to Rav Ashi: Come and hear a resolution, as Rav and Shmuel both say: A person’s vessel effects acquisition for him of any item placed inside it, in any place that it is situated. What is added by the phrase: In any place? Does it not serve to add the domain of the seller? Rav Ashi answered: There, it is referring to a specific case, where the seller said to him: Go and acquire it. In that situation, the buyer does acquire the merchandise. This does not refer to a standard case where the buyer’s vessels are located in the domain of the seller.

תְּנַן הָתָם: נְכָסִים שֶׁיֵּשׁ לָהֶן אַחְרָיוּת – נִקְנִין בְּכֶסֶף וּבִשְׁטָר וּבַחֲזָקָה, וְשֶׁאֵין לָהֶן אַחְרָיוּת – אֵין נִקְנִין אֶלָּא בִּמְשִׁיכָה. בְּסוּרָא מַתְנוּ לַהּ לְהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַב חִסְדָּא; בְּפוּמְבְּדִיתָא מַתְנוּ לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַב כָּהֲנָא, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרָבָא: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא דְּבָרִים שֶׁאֵין דַּרְכָּן לְהַגְבִּיהַּ, אֲבָל דְּבָרִים שֶׁדַּרְכָּן לְהַגְבִּיהַּ – בְּהַגְבָּהָה אִין, בִּמְשִׁיכָה לָא.

§ We learned in a mishna elsewhere (Kiddushin 26a): Property that is guaranteed, i.e., land, is acquired by means of money, or by means of a bill, or by taking possession of it. And property that does not have a guarantee, i.e., movable property, can be acquired only by means of pulling. In Sura they taught this following halakha in the name of Rav Ḥisda, while in Pumbedita they taught it in the name of Rav Kahana, and some say in the name of Rava: They taught that movable property is acquired by means of pulling only with regard to items that are not typically lifted due to their weight or for some other reason. But in the case of items that are typically lifted, then yes, they are acquired by means of lifting, but they are not acquired by means of pulling.

יְתֵיב אַבָּיֵי וְקָאָמַר לְהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא; אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רַב אַדָּא בַּר מַתְנָה לְאַבָּיֵי: הַגּוֹנֵב כִּיס בְּשַׁבָּת – חַיָּיב, שֶׁכְּבָר נִתְחַיֵּיב בִּגְנֵיבָה קוֹדֶם שֶׁיָּבֹא לִידֵי אִיסּוּר שַׁבָּת.

Abaye sat and related this halakha. Rav Adda bar Mattana raised an objection to Abaye from a baraita: One who steals a purse on Shabbat is liable for theft. Based on the principle that one who is liable to receive two punishments receives only the greater of the two, in this case one might think that he should be exempt from paying for the theft, as the performance of a prohibited labor on Shabbat is punishable by death. The reason he is liable in this case, in apparent contradiction to that principle, is that he already became liable for the theft as soon as he lifted the purse. This occurred before he came to violate the prohibition of performing prohibited labor on Shabbat by carrying the purse into the public domain.

הָיָה מְגָרֵר וְיוֹצֵא מְגָרֵר וְיוֹצֵא – פָּטוּר, שֶׁהֲרֵי אִיסּוּר שַׁבָּת וּגְנֵיבָה בָּאִין כְּאֶחָד.

The baraita continues: If he did not lift the purse but was dragging it on the ground and exiting the private domain, continuously dragging and exiting, he is exempt, as the prohibition of performing labor on Shabbat and the prohibition of theft are violated simultaneously the moment he drags the purse out of the owner’s property into the public domain. Therefore, he receives only the greater punishment, death, for carrying on Shabbat.

וַהֲרֵי כִּיס – דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה הוּא, וַאֲפִילּוּ הָכִי קָנֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּמִיתְנָא. אֲנָא נָמֵי בְּמִיתְנָא קָא אָמֵינָא! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּמִידֵּי דְּבָעֵי מִיתְנָא.

Rav Adda bar Mattana explains his objection: But a purse is an item that can be lifted, and even so it is apparent from the baraita that one acquires it by means of pulling. How then can it be stated that items that are typically lifted are not acquired by pulling? Abaye said to him: The baraita is referring to a case where the thief pulled the purse with a rope. Rav Adda bar Mattana thought that Abaye meant that the thief happened to drag it with a rope, and he responded: I also state my question even in a case where he pulled the purse with a rope, as it is still evident that one can acquire the purse by means of pulling instead of lifting. Abaye said to him: I meant that the baraita is referring to an item that requires a rope. It is a purse that is so large that it cannot be lifted and must be pulled, therefore it is acquired by means of pulling.

תָּא שְׁמַע: בִּרְשׁוּת מוֹכֵר – לֹא קָנָה עַד שֶׁיַּגְבִּיהֶנָּה, אוֹ עַד שֶׁיּוֹצִיאֶנָּה מֵרְשׁוּתוֹ. אַלְמָא, מִידֵּי דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה – אִי בָּעֵי בְּהַגְבָּהָה קָנֵי לֵיהּ, וְאִי בָּעֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה קָנֵי לֵיהּ! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: לִצְדָדִין קָתָנֵי – מִידֵּי דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה, בְּהַגְבָּהָה; מִידֵּי דְּבַר מְשִׁיכָה, בִּמְשִׁיכָה.

The Gemara raises another objection. Come and hear: If the merchandise is in the domain of the seller, the buyer does not acquire the merchandise until he lifts it or until he removes it from the domain of the seller. Apparently, with regard to an item that can be lifted, if he so desires he acquires it by lifting, and if he so desires he acquires it by pulling. Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: This is not a proof, as it can be explained that the tanna teaches it disjunctively, i.e., the two options are referring to two different cases: In the case of an item that can be lifted, he acquires it by lifting, whereas with regard to regard to an item that can be pulled, he acquires it by pulling.

תָּא שְׁמַע: הַמּוֹכֵר פֵּירוֹת לַחֲבֵירוֹ, מָשַׁךְ וְלֹא מָדַד – קָנֵי. וְהָא פֵּירוֹת, דִּבְנֵי הַגְבָּהָה נִינְהוּ, וְקָתָנֵי דְּקָנֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה!

The Gemara suggests: Come and hear a proof from the mishna (84b) that even items that are usually lifted can be acquired by means of pulling: With regard to one who sells produce to another, if the buyer pulled the produce but did not measure it, he has acquired it. The Gemara explains the proof: But produce can be lifted, and yet the mishna teaches that it is acquired by means of pulling.

הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן – בִּשְׁלִיפֵי רַבְרְבֵי. אִי הָכִי, אֵימָא סֵיפָא: הַלּוֹקֵחַ פִּשְׁתָּן מֵחֲבֵירוֹ – לֹא קָנָה עַד שֶׁיְּטַלְטְלֶנּוּ מִמָּקוֹם זֶה לְמָקוֹם אַחֵר. אַטּוּ פִּשְׁתָּן בִּשְׁלִיפֵי רַבְרְבֵי מִי לָא עָבְדִי?! שָׁאנֵי פִּשְׁתָּן – דְּמִשְׁתְּמִיט.

The Gemara rejects this proof: With what are we dealing here? We are dealing with large bundles that are pulled from place to place and are not carried, due to their size. The Gemara asks: If that is so, say the latter clause of the mishna: One who buys flax from another has not acquired it until he carries it from this place to another place, i.e., it is acquired only though lifting and not through pulling. Is that to say that flax is not prepared in large bundles? The Gemara answers: Yes, flax is different. Unlike other produce, flax is not packed in large bundles, as it would slip from its place. Rather, it is packed in small bundles, and therefore flax is acquired specifically through lifting.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי, תָּא שְׁמַע: בְּהֵמָה גַּסָּה נִקְנֵית בִּמְסִירָה, וְהַדַּקָּה – בְּהַגְבָּהָה; דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר וְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים: בְּהֵמָה דַּקָּה – בִּמְשִׁיכָה. וְהָא בְּהֵמָה דַּקָּה, דְּבַר הַגְבָּהָה הִיא, וְקָתָנֵי דְּקָנֵי בִּמְשִׁיכָה! שָׁאנֵי בְּהֵמָה, דְּסָרְכָא.

Ravina said to Rav Ashi: Come and hear a proof from a mishna (Kiddushin 25b): Large domesticated animals are acquired through passing the animal’s leash to the buyer, and small domesticated animals are acquired through lifting; this is the statement of Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar. And the Rabbis say: Small domesticated animals are acquired through pulling. Ravina explains the proof: But small domesticated animals are creatures that can be lifted, and yet the mishna teaches that one acquires them through pulling. Rav Ashi rejected this proof: Domesticated animals are different, as they cling to the ground and it is difficult to lift them. Therefore, the usual manner of moving animals is to pull them.

רַב וּשְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ: ״כּוֹר בִּשְׁלֹשִׁים אֲנִי מוֹכֵר לָךְ״ – יָכוֹל לַחֲזוֹר בּוֹ, אֲפִילּוּ בִּסְאָה הָאַחֲרוֹנָה. ״כּוֹר בִּשְׁלֹשִׁים – סְאָה בְּסֶלַע אֲנִי מוֹכֵר לָךְ״ – רִאשׁוֹן רִאשׁוֹן קָנָה.

§ The Gemara cites another case with regard to sales. Rav and Shmuel both say: If a seller said to a buyer: I am selling you one kor, a measure equivalent to thirty se’a, of grain for the price of thirty sela, the seller can renege on the sale as long as the measuring vessel is not filled, even when only the last se’a has yet to be measured, because he had agreed to sell only a complete kor. By contrast, if the seller said: I am selling you one kor for thirty sela and each se’a is sold for one sela, he cannot completely renege on the sale in the middle of the transaction. This is because the buyer acquires each se’a one by one as it is measured, since the seller sold each se’a individually.

תָּא שְׁמַע: אִם הָיְתָה מִדָּה שֶׁל אֶחָד מֵהֶן – רִאשׁוֹן רִאשׁוֹן קָנָה. וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּלֹא נִתְמַלְּאָה הַמִּדָּה!

The Gemara raises a difficulty from the baraita cited on 85a. Come and hear: If the measuring vessel belonged to one of them, the buyer acquires the items of sale one by one. And since this halakha is stated in general terms, it indicates that the buyer acquires each item as it is placed in the measuring vessel, even though the measuring vessel was not filled.

כְּגוֹן דַּאֲמַר לֵיהּ: ״הִין בִּשְׁנֵים עָשָׂר סְלָעִים – לוֹג בְּסֶלַע אֲנִי מוֹכֵר לָךְ״; וְכִדְאָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: שְׁנָתוֹת הָיוּ בַּהִין, הָכָא נָמֵי – שְׁנָתוֹת הָיוּ בַּמִּדּוֹת.

The Gemara answers: The baraita is referring to a case where the seller said to him: I am selling you one hin, a liquid measure equivalent to twelve log, for twelve sela, each log for one sela. And this is in accordance with an observation that Rav Kahana says: In the Temple there were markings on the vessel that measured hin, with which one could measure the different libations. Here too, there were markings on the measuring vessels, and since the measuring vessel indicates at which point each log had been filled, the buyer acquires it. This is comparable to the case of one who sells each se’a individually.

תָּא שְׁמַע: הַשּׂוֹכֵר אֶת הַפּוֹעֵל לַעֲשׂוֹת עִמּוֹ לַגּוֹרֶן הַיּוֹם בְּדִינָר,

The Gemara raises another difficulty. Come and hear: One who hires a laborer in the winter or the spring to work for him in the harvest, for one dinar a day,

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