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Today's Daf Yomi

August 28, 2020 | ח׳ באלול תש״פ

Masechet Eruvin is sponsored by Adina and Eric Hagege in honor of our parents, Rabbi Dov and Elayne Greenstone and Roger and Ketty Hagege who raised children, grandchildren and great grandchildren committed to Torah learning.

Eruvin 19

Today’s daf is sponsored by Adam Dicker and Caroline Hochstadter in commeration of the yahrzeit of Fred Hochstadter, Ephraim ben Baruch, z”l, an amazing father and Saba, as well as in celebration of the recent marriage of our son Shimshon Dicker to Zoe Abboudi. Saba would have been proud of you, Shim and Zoe, and he would have loved the learning at Hadran. Thank you all for providing a beautiful space and environment to learn the Daf! And by Gabi and Barry Gelman in honor of Amichai Shalom on becoming a bar mitzvah. 

We finish the last statements of Rabbi Yirmia ben Elazar and through that get into a discussion about Gehenom – Hell. The gemara discussed the differences between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda regarding the space in between posts. Abaye asks Raba several questions about the posts put up around a well.

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למטעי כרם

for planting vines” (Micah 1:6), which benefits all the surrounding inhabitants.

ואמר רבי ירמיה בן אלעזר בא וראה שלא כמדת הקדוש ברוך הוא מדת בשר ודם מדת בשר ודם מתחייב אדם הריגה למלכות מטילין לו חכה לתוך פיו כדי שלא יקלל את המלך

And Rabbi Yirmeya ben Elazar also said: Come and see that the attribute of flesh and blood is unlike the attribute of the Holy One, Blessed be He. For the attribute of flesh and blood is to place an iron or wooden hook in the mouth of a person who was sentenced to death by the government, so that he should not be able to curse the king when he is taken away for execution.

מדת הקדוש ברוך הוא אדם מתחייב הריגה למקום שותק שנאמר לך דומיה תהלה ולא עוד אלא שמשבח שנאמר תהלה ולא עוד אלא שדומה לו כאילו מקריב קרבן שנאמר ולך ישולם נדר

But the attribute of the Holy One, Blessed be He is that one is willingly silent when he is sentenced to death by the Omnipresent, as it is stated: “For You silence is praise, O God in Zion, and to You shall the vow be performed” (Psalms 65:2). And what is more, he praises God for his sufferings, as it is stated: “Praise.” And what is more, it appears to him as though he were offering a sacrifice in atonement for his sin, as it is stated: “And to You shall the vow be performed.”

היינו דאמר רבי יהושע בן לוי מאי דכתיב עוברי בעמק הבכא מעין ישיתוהו גם ברכות יעטה מורה

And this is what Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: What is the meaning of that which is written: “Those who pass through the valley of weeping turn it into a water spring; moreover, the early rain covers it with blessings” (Psalms 84:7)?

עוברי אלו בני אדם שעוברין על רצונו של הקדוש ברוך הוא עמק שמעמיקין להם גיהנם הבכא שבוכין ומורידין דמעות כמעיין של שיתין גם ברכות יעטה מורה שמצדיקין עליהם את הדין ואומרים לפניו רבונו של עולם יפה דנת יפה זכית יפה חייבת ויפה תקנת גיהנם לרשעים גן עדן לצדיקים

“Those who pass through [overei],” these are people who transgress [overin] the will of the Holy One, Blessed be He. “Valley [emek]” indicates that their punishment is that Gehenna is deepened [ma’amikin] for them. “Of weeping [bakha]” and “turn it into a water spring [ma’ayan yeshituhu],” indicates that they weep [bokhin] and make tears flow like a spring [ma’ayan] of the foundations [shitin], meaning like a spring that descends to the foundations of the earth. “Moreover, the early rain covers it with blessings,” indicates that they accept the justice of God’s judgment, and say before Him: Master of the Universe, You have judged properly, You have acquitted properly, You have condemned properly, and it is befitting that You have prepared Gehenna for the wicked and the Garden of Eden for the righteous.

איני והאמר רבי שמעון בן לקיש רשעים אפילו על פתחו של גיהנם אינם חוזרין בתשובה שנאמר ויצאו וראו בפגרי האנשים הפושעים בי וגו׳ שפשעו לא נאמר אלא הפושעים שפושעים והולכין לעולם

The Gemara raises a difficulty: Is that so? Didn’t Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish say: The wicked do not repent, even at the entrance to Gehenna, as it is stated: “And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men who rebel against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh” (Isaiah 66:24)? The verse does not say: Who rebelled, but rather: “Who rebel,” in the present tense, meaning they continue rebelling forever.

לא קשיא הא בפושעי ישראל הא בפושעי אומות העולם

The Gemara answers: This is not difficult; here, i.e., where it is said that they accept God’s judgment, it is referring to the sinners of the Jewish people; there, i.e., where it is said that they do not recant, it is referring to the rebels among the nations of the world.

הכי נמי מסתברא דאם כן קשיא דריש לקיש אדריש לקיש דאמר ריש לקיש פושעי ישראל אין אור גיהנם שולטת בהן קל וחומר ממזבח הזהב

So too, it is reasonable to say this, for if you do not say so, there would be a contradiction between one statement of Reish Lakish and another statement of Reish Lakish. As Reish Lakish said: With regard to the sinners of the Jewish people, the fire of Gehenna has no power over them, as may be learned by a fortiori reasoning from the golden altar.

מה מזבח הזהב שאין עליו אלא כעובי דינר זהב עמד כמה שנים ולא שלטה בו האור פושעי ישראל שמליאין מצות כרמון שנאמר כפלח הרמון רקתך ואמר רבי שמעון בן לקיש אל תיקרי רקתך אלא ריקתיך שאפילו ריקנין שבך מליאין מצות כרמון על אחת כמה וכמה

If the golden altar in the Temple, which was only covered by gold the thickness of a golden dinar, stood for many years and the fire did not burn it, for its gold did not melt, so too the sinners of the Jewish people, who are filled with good deeds like a pomegranate, as it is stated: “Your temples [rakatekh] are like a split pomegranate behind your veil” (Song of Songs 6:7), will not be affected by the fire of Gehenna. And Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said about this: Do not read: Your temples [rakatekh], but rather: Your empty ones [reikateikh], meaning that even the sinners among you are full of mitzvot like a pomegranate; how much more so should the fire of Gehenna have no power over them.

אלא הא דכתיב עוברי בעמק הבכא ההוא דמחייבי ההיא שעתא בגיהנם ואתי אברהם אבינו ומסיק להו ומקבל להו בר מישראל שבא על הגויה דמשכה ערלתו ולא מבשקר ליה

However, that which is written: “Those who pass through the valley of weeping” (Psalms 84:7), which implies that the sinners nonetheless descend to Gehenna, should be explained as follows: There it speaks of those who are liable at that time for punishment in Gehenna, but our father Abraham comes and raises them up and receives them. He does not leave the circumcised behind and allow them to enter Gehenna, except for a Jew who had relations with a gentile woman, in punishment for which his foreskin is drawn, and our father Abraham does not recognize him as one of his descendants.

מתקיף לה רב כהנא השתא דאמרת הפושעים דפשעי ואזלי אלא מעתה דכתיב המוציא והמעלה דמסיק ודמפיק הוא אלא דאסיק ואפיק הכי נמי דפשעי הוא

Rav Kahana strongly objected to this: Now that you have said that the words those who rebel are referring to those who go on rebelling, if so, in those verses in which it is written of Him: “He Who brings out” (see Exodus 6:7) and “He Who raises up” Israel from Egypt (see Leviticus 11:45), do these expressions mean: He Who is currently raising them up and bringing them out? Rather, you must understand these terms to mean: He Who already raised them up and brought them out; here too then, the phrase those who rebel means those who already rebelled.

ואמר רבי ירמיה (בר) אלעזר שלשה פתחים יש לגיהנם אחד במדבר ואחד בים ואחד בירושלים במדבר דכתיב וירדו הם וכל אשר להם חיים שאולה

And Rabbi Yirmeya ben Elazar also said: There are three entrances to Gehenna, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem. There is one entrance in the wilderness, as it is written with regard to Korah and his company: “And they, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit [She’ol], and the earth closed upon them, and they perished from among the congregation” (Numbers 16:33).

בים דכתיב מבטן שאול שועתי שמעת קולי

In the sea there is a second entrance to Gehenna, as it is written about Jonah in the fish’s belly: “Out of the belly of the netherworld [She’ol] I cried, and You did hear my voice” (Jonah 2:3).

בירושלים דכתיב נאם ה׳ אשר אור לו בציון ותנור לו בירושלים ותנא דבי רבי ישמעאל אשר אור לו בציון זו גיהנם ותנור לו בירושלים זו פתחה של גיהנם

And there is a third entrance to Gehenna in Jerusalem, as it is written: “Says the Lord, Whose fire is in Zion, and Whose furnace is in Jerusalem” (Isaiah 31:9). And it was taught in the school of Rabbi Yishmael: “Whose fire is in Zion,” this is Gehenna; and “Whose furnace is in Jerusalem,” this is an entrance to Gehenna.

ותו ליכא והאמר רבי מריון אמר רבי יהושע בן לוי ואמרי לה תנא רבה בר מריון בדבי רבי יוחנן בן זכאי שתי תמרות יש בגי בן הנום ועולה עשן מביניהן וזו היא ששנינו ציני הר הברזל כשירות וזו היא פתחה של גיהנם דילמא היינו דירושלים

The Gemara asks: Are there no more entrances? Didn’t Rabbi Maryon say in the name of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi, and some say it was Rabba bar Maryon who taught in the name of the school of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Zakkai: There are two date trees in the valley of ben Hinnom, and smoke rises from between them, and with regard to this statement about date trees that differ from other palms we learned: The palms of Har HaBarzel are fit for the mitzva of palm branches [lulav], and this is the entrance to Gehenna. The Gemara answers: This is not difficult, for perhaps this is the entrance in Jerusalem.

אמר רבי יהושע בן לוי שבעה שמות יש לגיהנם ואלו הן שאול ואבדון ובאר שחת ובור שאון וטיט היון וצלמות וארץ התחתית

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: Gehenna has seven names, and they are as follows: She’ol, Avadon, Be’er Shaḥat, Bor Shaon, Tit HaYaven, Tzalmavet, and Eretz HaTaḥtit.

שאול דכתיב מבטן שאול שועתי שמעת קולי אבדון דכתיב היסופר בקבר חסדך אמונתך באבדון באר שחת דכתיב כי לא תעזוב נפשי לשאול לא תתן חסידך לראות שחת ובור שאון וטיט היון דכתיב ויעלני מבור שאון מטיט היון וצלמות דכתיב יושבי חושך וצלמות וארץ התחתית גמרא הוא

She’ol, as it is written: “Out of the belly of the netherworld [she’ol] I cried and You did hear my voice” (Jonah 2:3). Avadon, as it is written: “Shall Your steadfast love be reported in the grave or Your faithfulness in destruction [avadon]?” (Psalms 88:12). Be’er Shaḥat, as it is written: “For You will not abandon my soul to the netherworld; nor will You suffer Your pious one to see the pit [shaḥat]” (Psalms 16:10). And Bor Shaon and Tit HaYaven, as it is written: “He brought me up also out of the gruesome pit [bor shaon], out of the miry clay [tit hayaven]” (Psalms 40:3). And Tzalmavet, as it is written: “Such as sat in darkness and in the shadow of death [tzalmavet], bound in affliction and iron” (Psalms 107:10). And with regard to Eretz Taḥtit, i.e., the underworld, it is known by tradition that this is its name.

ותו ליכא והאיכא גיהנם גיא שעמוקה (בגיהנם) שהכל יורד לה על עסקי הנם

The Gemara poses a question: Are there no more names? Isn’t there the name Gehenna? The Gemara answers that this is not a name rather a description: A valley that is as deep as the valley [ gei] of ben Hinnom. An alternative explanation is: Into which all descend for vain [hinnam] and wasteful acts, understanding the word hinnam as if it were written ḥinnam, meaning for naught.

והאיכא תפתה דכתיב כי ערוך מאתמול תפתה ההוא שכל המתפתה ביצרו יפול שם

The Gemara asks: Isn’t there also the name Tofte, as it is written: “For its hearth [tofte] is ordained of old” (Isaiah 30:33). The Gemara answers: That name too is a description, meaning that anyone who allows himself to be seduced [mitpateh] by his evil inclination will fall there.

גן עדן אמר ריש לקיש אם בארץ ישראל הוא בית שאן פתחו ואם בערביא בית גרם פתחו ואם בין הנהרות הוא דומסקנין פתחו בבבל אביי משתבח בפירי דמעבר ימינא רבא משתבח בפירי דהרפניא:

Having discussed the entrances to Gehenna, the Gemara also mentions the entrance to the Garden of Eden. Reish Lakish said: If it is in Eretz Yisrael, its entrance is Beit She’an, and if it is in Arabia, its entrance is Beit Garem, and if it is between the rivers of Babylonia, its entrance is Dumsekanin, for all these places feature a great abundance of vegetation and fertile land. The Gemara relates that Abaye would praise the fruits of the right bank of the Euphrates River, and Rava would praise the fruits of Harpanya.

וביניהן כמלוא שתי וכו׳: פשיטא כיון דתנא ליה דקשורות הוו אנן ידעינן דלא הוו מותרות

The Gemara goes back to the mishna in which we learned: And between them, i.e., between the upright boards and the double posts, there may be a gap the size of two teams of four oxen each, as measured when tied together and not when they are untied. The Gemara asks: This is obvious; since the tanna taught that they are tied, we know that they are not untied.

מהו דתימא קשורות כעין קשורות אבל ממש לא קא משמע לן ולא מותרות:

The Gemara answers: This is specified, lest you say that tied means similar to tied, i.e., close to each other, but not necessarily that they are actually tied. Therefore, the mishna teaches us that it is not enough that they be close; rather, they must be actually tied and not untied.

אחת נכנסת ואחת יוצאת: תנא רבקה נכנסת ורבקה יוצאת תנו רבנן כמה ראשה ורובה של פרה שתי אמות וכמה עוביה של פרה אמה ושני שלישי אמה

The mishna continued: There must be sufficient space left so that one can enter and another can leave. A Tosefta was taught that explains the mishna: Enough space so that one team can enter and another team can leave. Our Sages taught in a baraita: How much is the length of the head and most of the body of a cow? Two cubits. And how much is the thickness of a cow? A cubit and two-thirds of a cubit,

שהן כעשר דברי רבי מאיר רבי יהודה אומר כשלש עשרה אמה וכארבע עשרה אמה

so that the total width of six oxen is approximately ten cubits; this is the statement of Rabbi Meir. Rabbi Yehuda said the following, in accordance with his own opinion that the gap may be the size of two teams of four oxen each: The total width is approximately thirteen cubits or approximately fourteen cubits.

כעשר הא עשר הויין משום דבעי למיתנא סיפא כשלש עשרה

The Gemara asks: Why does the tanna of the baraita say: Approximately ten cubits in Rabbi Meir’s statement? Isn’t it exactly ten cubits? The Gemara answers: Since he wanted to teach: Approximately thirteen, in the last clause, i.e., Rabbi Yehuda’s statement, he therefore also taught: Approximately ten, in the first clause.

כשלש עשרה טפי הויין משום דבעי למתני כארבע עשרה וכארבע עשרה הא לא הויא אמר רב פפא יתירות על שלש עשרה ואינן מגיעות לארבע עשרה

The Gemara asks: But how could he say: Approximately thirteen, when it is more? The Gemara answers: Since he wanted to teach: Approximately fourteen, he therefore also teaches: Approximately thirteen. The Gemara continues this line of questioning: But they are not approximately fourteen, but rather are less. Rav Pappa said: It is a third of a cubit more than thirteen cubits, and it does not reach fourteen cubits.

אמר רב פפא בבור שמונה דכולי עלמא לא פליגי דלא בעינן פשוטין

Rav Pappa said: With regard to a water cistern whose own width is eight cubits, everyone agrees, both Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Meir, that there is no need to position upright boards between the double posts. In such a case, the width of the enclosed area, which is the width of the cistern together with the space required for the cows, i.e., two cubits on each side, is twelve cubits. Since the width of each double post is one cubit, the gap between the double posts is ten cubits, and a gap of this size is permitted even according to Rabbi Meir.

בבור שתים עשרה דכולי עלמא לא פליגי דבעינן פשוטין

With regard to a cistern whose width is twelve cubits, everyone agrees that there is a need for upright posts. In this case, even if only two cubits are added on each side for the cows, the enclosed area will be sixteen cubits, and the gap between the double posts will be fourteen cubits, which must be closed off even according to Rabbi Yehuda.

כי פליגי משמונה עד שתים עשרה לרבי מאיר בעינן פשוטין לרבי יהודה לא בעינן פשוטין

Where they disagree is in the case of a cistern whose width is between eight and twelve cubits. According to the opinion of Rabbi Meir, one must add upright posts, whereas according to the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda, one need not add upright posts.

ורב פפא מאי קא משמע לן תנינא

The Gemara asks: And what is Rav Pappa teaching us? We already learned in the baraita that according to Rabbi Meir the gap may not be more than ten cubits, whereas according to Rabbi Yehuda it may be up to thirteen and a third cubits.

רב פפא ברייתא לא שמיע ליה וקא משמע לן כברייתא:

The Gemara answers: Indeed, for us nothing new is being taught here; however, Rav Pappa did not hear this baraita, and he taught us on his own as was taught in the baraita.

אריך יותר בתל חיצת חצר שיבשה סימן: בעא מיניה אביי מרבה האריך בדיומדין כשיעור פשוטין לרבי מאיר מהו

Extended, more, in a mound, a barrier of, a courtyard, that dried up; this is a mnemonic containing key words in a series of issues raised by Abaye before Rabba. Abaye raised a dilemma before Rabba: If the gaps between the double posts were more than ten cubits, and one extended the double posts, that is, he widened each arm of the corner pieces, adding the measure of an upright board, i.e., another cubit, on each side, so that the gaps were no longer more than ten cubits, what is the law according to the opinion of Rabbi Meir? Do we say that this suffices and it is no longer necessary to arrange upright boards between the two double posts, or must upright boards be positioned in the gaps?

אמר ליה תניתוה ובלבד שירבה בפסין מאי לאו דמאריך בדיומדין לא דמפיש ועביד פשוטין

Rabba said to him: We already learned it in the mishna: Provided that he increases the boards. Does this not mean that he extends the double posts, increasing them in width? Abaye refutes this: No, perhaps it means that he makes more upright boards, increasing them in number.

אי הכי האי ובלבד שירבה בפסין עד שירבה פסין מיבעי ליה תני עד שירבה פסין

Rabba said to him: If so, this wording: Provided that he increases the boards, is imprecise, for it implies that one increases the boards themselves, and instead it should have stated: Provided that he increases the number of upright boards. Abaye answered: There is no need to be particular about this. Teach: Provided that he increases the number of upright boards.

איכא דאמרי אמר ליה תניתוה ובלבד שירבה בפסין מאי לאו דמפיש ועביד פשוטין לא דמאריך בדיומדין

The Gemara cites an alternative version of the previous discussion: There are some who say that Rabba said to Abaye as follows: We already learned it: Provided that he increases the boards. Does this not mean that he makes more upright boards, increasing them in number? Abaye refutes this: No, perhaps it means that he extends the double posts, increasing them in width.

הכי נמי מסתברא מדקתני ובלבד שירבה בפסין שמע מינה

The Gemara comments: So too, it is reasonable to say this, from the fact that the mishna teaches: Provided that he increases the upright boards, which implies that he extends the width of the boards themselves, in accordance with the second version. The Gemara concludes: Indeed, learn from this that this is the correct understanding.

בעא מיניה אביי מרבה יותר משלש עשרה אמה ושליש לרבי יהודה מהו פשוטין עביד או בדיומדין מאריך

Abaye raised another dilemma before Rabba: If the gaps are more than thirteen and a third cubits, what is the law according to the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda? Does he bring upright boards and position them between the double posts, or does he extend the double posts, increasing them in width?

אמר ליה תניתוה כמה הן מקורבין כדי ראשה ורובה של פרה וכמה מרוחקין אפילו כור ואפילו כוריים

Rabba said to him: We already learned the law in a similar case, for it was taught in a baraita: How close may the double posts be to the well? They can be as close as the length of the head and most of the body of a cow. And how far may they be from the well? If one wishes, the enclosed area may be expanded even to the area of a kor and even to two kor, provided that one increases the number of upright boards adequately to keep the gaps under the allowable limit.

רבי יהודה אומר בית סאתים מותר יותר מבית סאתים אסור אמרו לו לרבי יהודה אי אתה מודה בדיר וסהר ומוקצה וחצר אפילו בת חמשת כורים ואפילו בת עשרה כורים שמותר

The baraita continues: Rabbi Yehuda says: Up to an area of two beit se’a, it is permitted to enclose the area in this manner; but expanding the enclosed area so it is more than an area of two beit se’a is prohibited. The other Rabbis said to Rabbi Yehuda: Do you not agree with regard to a pen, and stable, and a backyard, and a courtyard that even an area of five beit kor and even of ten beit kor is permitted for use?

אמר להן זו מחיצה ואלו פסין

The baraita continues: Rabbi Yehuda said to them: There is a significant difference between these cases, for this one, i.e., the wall surrounding the courtyard and the like, is a proper partition, whereas these are merely upright boards.

ואם איתא זו מחיצה וזו היא מחיצה מיבעי ליה

The Gemara asks with regard to Rabba’s statement: And if it is so that one extend the double posts, this means that he makes a proper partition of increasingly wider double posts in the area surrounding the well, this is equivalent to the partitions of a courtyard, he, Rabbi Yehuda, should have said: This is a partition and that is a partition.

הכי קאמר זו תורת מחיצה עליה ופרצותיה בעשר ואלו תורת פסין עליהן ופרצותיהן בשלש עשרה אמה ושליש

The Gemara answers: No proof can be brought from here, for Rabbi Yehuda is saying as follows: This one, the walls of a courtyard, are governed by the laws of a partition, and therefore its breaches must not be more than ten cubits. Whereas these, which surround the well, are governed by the laws of upright boards, and their breaches may be up to thirteen and a third cubits. Consequently, only an area of two beit se’a can be enclosed in this manner. Therefore, no proof can be brought from this baraita to Abaye’s dilemma.

בעא מיניה אביי מרבה תל המתלקט עשרה מתוך ארבע נידון משום דיומד או אינו נידון משום דיומד

Abaye raised another dilemma before Rabba: Can a mound that rises to a height of ten handbreadths within an area of four cubits serve as a double post or can it not serve as a double post?

אמר ליה תניתוה רבי שמעון בן אלעזר אומר היתה שם אבן מרובעת רואין כל שאילו תחלק ויש בה אמה לכאן ואמה לכאן נידון משום דיומד ואם לאו אינו נידון משום דיומד

Rabba said to him: We already learned this in the following baraita: Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: If a square stone was present, we see the stone as if it were altered: Wherever it can be divided in such a way that there would remain a cubit here in one direction and a cubit there at a right angle to it, it can serve as a double post; but if not, it cannot serve as a double post.

רבי ישמעאל בנו של רבי יוחנן בן ברוקה אומר היתה שם אבן עגולה רואין כל שאילו תחקק ותחלק ויש בה אמה לכאן ואמה לכאן נידון משום דיומד ואם לאו אינו נידון משום דיומד

Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Beroka, says: If a round stone was present, we see the stone as if it were altered: Wherever it could be chiseled down into a square, and then divided in such a way that there would remain a cubit here in one direction and a cubit there at a right angle to it, it can serve as a double post; but if not, it cannot serve as a double post. In any case, it is learned from these two statements that anything can serve as a double post if it is of the requisite size and shape.

במאי קא מיפלגי מר סבר חד רואין אמרינן תרי רואין לא אמרינן ומר סבר אפילו תרי רואין נמי אמרינן

With regard to the baraita itself, the Gemara asks: With regard to what do these two tanna’im disagree? The Gemara explains that one Sage, Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar, holds that we say: We see, once. However, we do not say: We see, twice. That is to say, while the stone can be considered as if it were divided, it cannot also be considered as though it were chiseled down into a square. And the other Sage, Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Beroka, holds that we even say: We see, twice. Since a mound is similar to a round stone, it can therefore serve as a double post.

בעא מיניה אביי מרבה חיצת הקנים קנה קנה פחות משלשה נידון משום דיומד או לאו

Abaye raised another dilemma before Rabba: With regard to a barrier of reeds in the shape of a double post, where each reed is less than three handbreadths apart from the next, so that they are considered connected by the principle of lavud, can it serve as a double post or not?

אמר ליה תניתוה היה שם אילן או גדר או חיצת הקנים נידון משום דיומד מאי לאו קנה קנה פחות משלשה

Rabba said to him: We already learned this law in a baraita that states: If a tree, or a fence, or a barrier of reeds was present, it serves as a double post. Does this not refer to a barrier of reeds where each reed is less than three handbreadths from the next?

לא גודריתא דקני אי הכי היינו אילן

The Gemara refutes this: No, it may perhaps refer to a thicket of reeds planted close together, forming a kind of post. The Gemara raises a difficulty: If so, it is equivalent to a tree, and the tanna would not repeat the same case twice.

ואלא מאי קנה קנה פחות משלשה היינו גדר אלא מאי אית לך למימר תרי גווני גדר הכא נמי תרי גווני אילן

The Gemara rejects this argument: What, then? Would you say that the baraita is referring to a barrier of reeds where each reed is less than three handbreadths apart? If so, it is a fence. Rather, what must you say is that the baraita teaches two types of fence; here too, then, you can say that it teaches two types of tree, and therefore no proof can be brought from this baraita.

איכא דאמרי גודריתא דקני קא מיבעיא ליה גודריתא דקני מאי אמר ליה תניתוה היה שם גדר או אילן או חיצת הקנים נידון משום דיומד מאי לאו גודריתא דקני

The Gemara cites an alternative version of the previous discussion: There are some who say that the question was posed differently, and the dilemma Abaye raised before Rabba was about whether or not a dense thicket of reeds can serve as a double post. Rabba said to him: We already learned this law in the following baraita: If a tree, or a fence, or a barrier of reeds was present, it can serve as a double post. Does this not refer to a thicket of reeds?

לא קנה קנה פחות משלשה אי הכי היינו גדר

The Gemara refutes this: No, it may perhaps refer to a barrier of reeds where each reed is less than three handbreadths apart from the next. The Gemara raises a difficulty: If so, it is exactly a fence.

ואלא מאי גודריתא דקני היינו אילן אלא מאי אית לך למימר

The Gemara rejects this argument: What, then? Would you say that the baraita refers to a thicket of reeds? If so, this is a tree. Rather, what must you say is

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Eruvin 19

למטעי כרם

for planting vines” (Micah 1:6), which benefits all the surrounding inhabitants.

ואמר רבי ירמיה בן אלעזר בא וראה שלא כמדת הקדוש ברוך הוא מדת בשר ודם מדת בשר ודם מתחייב אדם הריגה למלכות מטילין לו חכה לתוך פיו כדי שלא יקלל את המלך

And Rabbi Yirmeya ben Elazar also said: Come and see that the attribute of flesh and blood is unlike the attribute of the Holy One, Blessed be He. For the attribute of flesh and blood is to place an iron or wooden hook in the mouth of a person who was sentenced to death by the government, so that he should not be able to curse the king when he is taken away for execution.

מדת הקדוש ברוך הוא אדם מתחייב הריגה למקום שותק שנאמר לך דומיה תהלה ולא עוד אלא שמשבח שנאמר תהלה ולא עוד אלא שדומה לו כאילו מקריב קרבן שנאמר ולך ישולם נדר

But the attribute of the Holy One, Blessed be He is that one is willingly silent when he is sentenced to death by the Omnipresent, as it is stated: “For You silence is praise, O God in Zion, and to You shall the vow be performed” (Psalms 65:2). And what is more, he praises God for his sufferings, as it is stated: “Praise.” And what is more, it appears to him as though he were offering a sacrifice in atonement for his sin, as it is stated: “And to You shall the vow be performed.”

היינו דאמר רבי יהושע בן לוי מאי דכתיב עוברי בעמק הבכא מעין ישיתוהו גם ברכות יעטה מורה

And this is what Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: What is the meaning of that which is written: “Those who pass through the valley of weeping turn it into a water spring; moreover, the early rain covers it with blessings” (Psalms 84:7)?

עוברי אלו בני אדם שעוברין על רצונו של הקדוש ברוך הוא עמק שמעמיקין להם גיהנם הבכא שבוכין ומורידין דמעות כמעיין של שיתין גם ברכות יעטה מורה שמצדיקין עליהם את הדין ואומרים לפניו רבונו של עולם יפה דנת יפה זכית יפה חייבת ויפה תקנת גיהנם לרשעים גן עדן לצדיקים

“Those who pass through [overei],” these are people who transgress [overin] the will of the Holy One, Blessed be He. “Valley [emek]” indicates that their punishment is that Gehenna is deepened [ma’amikin] for them. “Of weeping [bakha]” and “turn it into a water spring [ma’ayan yeshituhu],” indicates that they weep [bokhin] and make tears flow like a spring [ma’ayan] of the foundations [shitin], meaning like a spring that descends to the foundations of the earth. “Moreover, the early rain covers it with blessings,” indicates that they accept the justice of God’s judgment, and say before Him: Master of the Universe, You have judged properly, You have acquitted properly, You have condemned properly, and it is befitting that You have prepared Gehenna for the wicked and the Garden of Eden for the righteous.

איני והאמר רבי שמעון בן לקיש רשעים אפילו על פתחו של גיהנם אינם חוזרין בתשובה שנאמר ויצאו וראו בפגרי האנשים הפושעים בי וגו׳ שפשעו לא נאמר אלא הפושעים שפושעים והולכין לעולם

The Gemara raises a difficulty: Is that so? Didn’t Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish say: The wicked do not repent, even at the entrance to Gehenna, as it is stated: “And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men who rebel against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh” (Isaiah 66:24)? The verse does not say: Who rebelled, but rather: “Who rebel,” in the present tense, meaning they continue rebelling forever.

לא קשיא הא בפושעי ישראל הא בפושעי אומות העולם

The Gemara answers: This is not difficult; here, i.e., where it is said that they accept God’s judgment, it is referring to the sinners of the Jewish people; there, i.e., where it is said that they do not recant, it is referring to the rebels among the nations of the world.

הכי נמי מסתברא דאם כן קשיא דריש לקיש אדריש לקיש דאמר ריש לקיש פושעי ישראל אין אור גיהנם שולטת בהן קל וחומר ממזבח הזהב

So too, it is reasonable to say this, for if you do not say so, there would be a contradiction between one statement of Reish Lakish and another statement of Reish Lakish. As Reish Lakish said: With regard to the sinners of the Jewish people, the fire of Gehenna has no power over them, as may be learned by a fortiori reasoning from the golden altar.

מה מזבח הזהב שאין עליו אלא כעובי דינר זהב עמד כמה שנים ולא שלטה בו האור פושעי ישראל שמליאין מצות כרמון שנאמר כפלח הרמון רקתך ואמר רבי שמעון בן לקיש אל תיקרי רקתך אלא ריקתיך שאפילו ריקנין שבך מליאין מצות כרמון על אחת כמה וכמה

If the golden altar in the Temple, which was only covered by gold the thickness of a golden dinar, stood for many years and the fire did not burn it, for its gold did not melt, so too the sinners of the Jewish people, who are filled with good deeds like a pomegranate, as it is stated: “Your temples [rakatekh] are like a split pomegranate behind your veil” (Song of Songs 6:7), will not be affected by the fire of Gehenna. And Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said about this: Do not read: Your temples [rakatekh], but rather: Your empty ones [reikateikh], meaning that even the sinners among you are full of mitzvot like a pomegranate; how much more so should the fire of Gehenna have no power over them.

אלא הא דכתיב עוברי בעמק הבכא ההוא דמחייבי ההיא שעתא בגיהנם ואתי אברהם אבינו ומסיק להו ומקבל להו בר מישראל שבא על הגויה דמשכה ערלתו ולא מבשקר ליה

However, that which is written: “Those who pass through the valley of weeping” (Psalms 84:7), which implies that the sinners nonetheless descend to Gehenna, should be explained as follows: There it speaks of those who are liable at that time for punishment in Gehenna, but our father Abraham comes and raises them up and receives them. He does not leave the circumcised behind and allow them to enter Gehenna, except for a Jew who had relations with a gentile woman, in punishment for which his foreskin is drawn, and our father Abraham does not recognize him as one of his descendants.

מתקיף לה רב כהנא השתא דאמרת הפושעים דפשעי ואזלי אלא מעתה דכתיב המוציא והמעלה דמסיק ודמפיק הוא אלא דאסיק ואפיק הכי נמי דפשעי הוא

Rav Kahana strongly objected to this: Now that you have said that the words those who rebel are referring to those who go on rebelling, if so, in those verses in which it is written of Him: “He Who brings out” (see Exodus 6:7) and “He Who raises up” Israel from Egypt (see Leviticus 11:45), do these expressions mean: He Who is currently raising them up and bringing them out? Rather, you must understand these terms to mean: He Who already raised them up and brought them out; here too then, the phrase those who rebel means those who already rebelled.

ואמר רבי ירמיה (בר) אלעזר שלשה פתחים יש לגיהנם אחד במדבר ואחד בים ואחד בירושלים במדבר דכתיב וירדו הם וכל אשר להם חיים שאולה

And Rabbi Yirmeya ben Elazar also said: There are three entrances to Gehenna, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem. There is one entrance in the wilderness, as it is written with regard to Korah and his company: “And they, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit [She’ol], and the earth closed upon them, and they perished from among the congregation” (Numbers 16:33).

בים דכתיב מבטן שאול שועתי שמעת קולי

In the sea there is a second entrance to Gehenna, as it is written about Jonah in the fish’s belly: “Out of the belly of the netherworld [She’ol] I cried, and You did hear my voice” (Jonah 2:3).

בירושלים דכתיב נאם ה׳ אשר אור לו בציון ותנור לו בירושלים ותנא דבי רבי ישמעאל אשר אור לו בציון זו גיהנם ותנור לו בירושלים זו פתחה של גיהנם

And there is a third entrance to Gehenna in Jerusalem, as it is written: “Says the Lord, Whose fire is in Zion, and Whose furnace is in Jerusalem” (Isaiah 31:9). And it was taught in the school of Rabbi Yishmael: “Whose fire is in Zion,” this is Gehenna; and “Whose furnace is in Jerusalem,” this is an entrance to Gehenna.

ותו ליכא והאמר רבי מריון אמר רבי יהושע בן לוי ואמרי לה תנא רבה בר מריון בדבי רבי יוחנן בן זכאי שתי תמרות יש בגי בן הנום ועולה עשן מביניהן וזו היא ששנינו ציני הר הברזל כשירות וזו היא פתחה של גיהנם דילמא היינו דירושלים

The Gemara asks: Are there no more entrances? Didn’t Rabbi Maryon say in the name of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi, and some say it was Rabba bar Maryon who taught in the name of the school of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Zakkai: There are two date trees in the valley of ben Hinnom, and smoke rises from between them, and with regard to this statement about date trees that differ from other palms we learned: The palms of Har HaBarzel are fit for the mitzva of palm branches [lulav], and this is the entrance to Gehenna. The Gemara answers: This is not difficult, for perhaps this is the entrance in Jerusalem.

אמר רבי יהושע בן לוי שבעה שמות יש לגיהנם ואלו הן שאול ואבדון ובאר שחת ובור שאון וטיט היון וצלמות וארץ התחתית

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: Gehenna has seven names, and they are as follows: She’ol, Avadon, Be’er Shaḥat, Bor Shaon, Tit HaYaven, Tzalmavet, and Eretz HaTaḥtit.

שאול דכתיב מבטן שאול שועתי שמעת קולי אבדון דכתיב היסופר בקבר חסדך אמונתך באבדון באר שחת דכתיב כי לא תעזוב נפשי לשאול לא תתן חסידך לראות שחת ובור שאון וטיט היון דכתיב ויעלני מבור שאון מטיט היון וצלמות דכתיב יושבי חושך וצלמות וארץ התחתית גמרא הוא

She’ol, as it is written: “Out of the belly of the netherworld [she’ol] I cried and You did hear my voice” (Jonah 2:3). Avadon, as it is written: “Shall Your steadfast love be reported in the grave or Your faithfulness in destruction [avadon]?” (Psalms 88:12). Be’er Shaḥat, as it is written: “For You will not abandon my soul to the netherworld; nor will You suffer Your pious one to see the pit [shaḥat]” (Psalms 16:10). And Bor Shaon and Tit HaYaven, as it is written: “He brought me up also out of the gruesome pit [bor shaon], out of the miry clay [tit hayaven]” (Psalms 40:3). And Tzalmavet, as it is written: “Such as sat in darkness and in the shadow of death [tzalmavet], bound in affliction and iron” (Psalms 107:10). And with regard to Eretz Taḥtit, i.e., the underworld, it is known by tradition that this is its name.

ותו ליכא והאיכא גיהנם גיא שעמוקה (בגיהנם) שהכל יורד לה על עסקי הנם

The Gemara poses a question: Are there no more names? Isn’t there the name Gehenna? The Gemara answers that this is not a name rather a description: A valley that is as deep as the valley [ gei] of ben Hinnom. An alternative explanation is: Into which all descend for vain [hinnam] and wasteful acts, understanding the word hinnam as if it were written ḥinnam, meaning for naught.

והאיכא תפתה דכתיב כי ערוך מאתמול תפתה ההוא שכל המתפתה ביצרו יפול שם

The Gemara asks: Isn’t there also the name Tofte, as it is written: “For its hearth [tofte] is ordained of old” (Isaiah 30:33). The Gemara answers: That name too is a description, meaning that anyone who allows himself to be seduced [mitpateh] by his evil inclination will fall there.

גן עדן אמר ריש לקיש אם בארץ ישראל הוא בית שאן פתחו ואם בערביא בית גרם פתחו ואם בין הנהרות הוא דומסקנין פתחו בבבל אביי משתבח בפירי דמעבר ימינא רבא משתבח בפירי דהרפניא:

Having discussed the entrances to Gehenna, the Gemara also mentions the entrance to the Garden of Eden. Reish Lakish said: If it is in Eretz Yisrael, its entrance is Beit She’an, and if it is in Arabia, its entrance is Beit Garem, and if it is between the rivers of Babylonia, its entrance is Dumsekanin, for all these places feature a great abundance of vegetation and fertile land. The Gemara relates that Abaye would praise the fruits of the right bank of the Euphrates River, and Rava would praise the fruits of Harpanya.

וביניהן כמלוא שתי וכו׳: פשיטא כיון דתנא ליה דקשורות הוו אנן ידעינן דלא הוו מותרות

The Gemara goes back to the mishna in which we learned: And between them, i.e., between the upright boards and the double posts, there may be a gap the size of two teams of four oxen each, as measured when tied together and not when they are untied. The Gemara asks: This is obvious; since the tanna taught that they are tied, we know that they are not untied.

מהו דתימא קשורות כעין קשורות אבל ממש לא קא משמע לן ולא מותרות:

The Gemara answers: This is specified, lest you say that tied means similar to tied, i.e., close to each other, but not necessarily that they are actually tied. Therefore, the mishna teaches us that it is not enough that they be close; rather, they must be actually tied and not untied.

אחת נכנסת ואחת יוצאת: תנא רבקה נכנסת ורבקה יוצאת תנו רבנן כמה ראשה ורובה של פרה שתי אמות וכמה עוביה של פרה אמה ושני שלישי אמה

The mishna continued: There must be sufficient space left so that one can enter and another can leave. A Tosefta was taught that explains the mishna: Enough space so that one team can enter and another team can leave. Our Sages taught in a baraita: How much is the length of the head and most of the body of a cow? Two cubits. And how much is the thickness of a cow? A cubit and two-thirds of a cubit,

שהן כעשר דברי רבי מאיר רבי יהודה אומר כשלש עשרה אמה וכארבע עשרה אמה

so that the total width of six oxen is approximately ten cubits; this is the statement of Rabbi Meir. Rabbi Yehuda said the following, in accordance with his own opinion that the gap may be the size of two teams of four oxen each: The total width is approximately thirteen cubits or approximately fourteen cubits.

כעשר הא עשר הויין משום דבעי למיתנא סיפא כשלש עשרה

The Gemara asks: Why does the tanna of the baraita say: Approximately ten cubits in Rabbi Meir’s statement? Isn’t it exactly ten cubits? The Gemara answers: Since he wanted to teach: Approximately thirteen, in the last clause, i.e., Rabbi Yehuda’s statement, he therefore also taught: Approximately ten, in the first clause.

כשלש עשרה טפי הויין משום דבעי למתני כארבע עשרה וכארבע עשרה הא לא הויא אמר רב פפא יתירות על שלש עשרה ואינן מגיעות לארבע עשרה

The Gemara asks: But how could he say: Approximately thirteen, when it is more? The Gemara answers: Since he wanted to teach: Approximately fourteen, he therefore also teaches: Approximately thirteen. The Gemara continues this line of questioning: But they are not approximately fourteen, but rather are less. Rav Pappa said: It is a third of a cubit more than thirteen cubits, and it does not reach fourteen cubits.

אמר רב פפא בבור שמונה דכולי עלמא לא פליגי דלא בעינן פשוטין

Rav Pappa said: With regard to a water cistern whose own width is eight cubits, everyone agrees, both Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Meir, that there is no need to position upright boards between the double posts. In such a case, the width of the enclosed area, which is the width of the cistern together with the space required for the cows, i.e., two cubits on each side, is twelve cubits. Since the width of each double post is one cubit, the gap between the double posts is ten cubits, and a gap of this size is permitted even according to Rabbi Meir.

בבור שתים עשרה דכולי עלמא לא פליגי דבעינן פשוטין

With regard to a cistern whose width is twelve cubits, everyone agrees that there is a need for upright posts. In this case, even if only two cubits are added on each side for the cows, the enclosed area will be sixteen cubits, and the gap between the double posts will be fourteen cubits, which must be closed off even according to Rabbi Yehuda.

כי פליגי משמונה עד שתים עשרה לרבי מאיר בעינן פשוטין לרבי יהודה לא בעינן פשוטין

Where they disagree is in the case of a cistern whose width is between eight and twelve cubits. According to the opinion of Rabbi Meir, one must add upright posts, whereas according to the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda, one need not add upright posts.

ורב פפא מאי קא משמע לן תנינא

The Gemara asks: And what is Rav Pappa teaching us? We already learned in the baraita that according to Rabbi Meir the gap may not be more than ten cubits, whereas according to Rabbi Yehuda it may be up to thirteen and a third cubits.

רב פפא ברייתא לא שמיע ליה וקא משמע לן כברייתא:

The Gemara answers: Indeed, for us nothing new is being taught here; however, Rav Pappa did not hear this baraita, and he taught us on his own as was taught in the baraita.

אריך יותר בתל חיצת חצר שיבשה סימן: בעא מיניה אביי מרבה האריך בדיומדין כשיעור פשוטין לרבי מאיר מהו

Extended, more, in a mound, a barrier of, a courtyard, that dried up; this is a mnemonic containing key words in a series of issues raised by Abaye before Rabba. Abaye raised a dilemma before Rabba: If the gaps between the double posts were more than ten cubits, and one extended the double posts, that is, he widened each arm of the corner pieces, adding the measure of an upright board, i.e., another cubit, on each side, so that the gaps were no longer more than ten cubits, what is the law according to the opinion of Rabbi Meir? Do we say that this suffices and it is no longer necessary to arrange upright boards between the two double posts, or must upright boards be positioned in the gaps?

אמר ליה תניתוה ובלבד שירבה בפסין מאי לאו דמאריך בדיומדין לא דמפיש ועביד פשוטין

Rabba said to him: We already learned it in the mishna: Provided that he increases the boards. Does this not mean that he extends the double posts, increasing them in width? Abaye refutes this: No, perhaps it means that he makes more upright boards, increasing them in number.

אי הכי האי ובלבד שירבה בפסין עד שירבה פסין מיבעי ליה תני עד שירבה פסין

Rabba said to him: If so, this wording: Provided that he increases the boards, is imprecise, for it implies that one increases the boards themselves, and instead it should have stated: Provided that he increases the number of upright boards. Abaye answered: There is no need to be particular about this. Teach: Provided that he increases the number of upright boards.

איכא דאמרי אמר ליה תניתוה ובלבד שירבה בפסין מאי לאו דמפיש ועביד פשוטין לא דמאריך בדיומדין

The Gemara cites an alternative version of the previous discussion: There are some who say that Rabba said to Abaye as follows: We already learned it: Provided that he increases the boards. Does this not mean that he makes more upright boards, increasing them in number? Abaye refutes this: No, perhaps it means that he extends the double posts, increasing them in width.

הכי נמי מסתברא מדקתני ובלבד שירבה בפסין שמע מינה

The Gemara comments: So too, it is reasonable to say this, from the fact that the mishna teaches: Provided that he increases the upright boards, which implies that he extends the width of the boards themselves, in accordance with the second version. The Gemara concludes: Indeed, learn from this that this is the correct understanding.

בעא מיניה אביי מרבה יותר משלש עשרה אמה ושליש לרבי יהודה מהו פשוטין עביד או בדיומדין מאריך

Abaye raised another dilemma before Rabba: If the gaps are more than thirteen and a third cubits, what is the law according to the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda? Does he bring upright boards and position them between the double posts, or does he extend the double posts, increasing them in width?

אמר ליה תניתוה כמה הן מקורבין כדי ראשה ורובה של פרה וכמה מרוחקין אפילו כור ואפילו כוריים

Rabba said to him: We already learned the law in a similar case, for it was taught in a baraita: How close may the double posts be to the well? They can be as close as the length of the head and most of the body of a cow. And how far may they be from the well? If one wishes, the enclosed area may be expanded even to the area of a kor and even to two kor, provided that one increases the number of upright boards adequately to keep the gaps under the allowable limit.

רבי יהודה אומר בית סאתים מותר יותר מבית סאתים אסור אמרו לו לרבי יהודה אי אתה מודה בדיר וסהר ומוקצה וחצר אפילו בת חמשת כורים ואפילו בת עשרה כורים שמותר

The baraita continues: Rabbi Yehuda says: Up to an area of two beit se’a, it is permitted to enclose the area in this manner; but expanding the enclosed area so it is more than an area of two beit se’a is prohibited. The other Rabbis said to Rabbi Yehuda: Do you not agree with regard to a pen, and stable, and a backyard, and a courtyard that even an area of five beit kor and even of ten beit kor is permitted for use?

אמר להן זו מחיצה ואלו פסין

The baraita continues: Rabbi Yehuda said to them: There is a significant difference between these cases, for this one, i.e., the wall surrounding the courtyard and the like, is a proper partition, whereas these are merely upright boards.

ואם איתא זו מחיצה וזו היא מחיצה מיבעי ליה

The Gemara asks with regard to Rabba’s statement: And if it is so that one extend the double posts, this means that he makes a proper partition of increasingly wider double posts in the area surrounding the well, this is equivalent to the partitions of a courtyard, he, Rabbi Yehuda, should have said: This is a partition and that is a partition.

הכי קאמר זו תורת מחיצה עליה ופרצותיה בעשר ואלו תורת פסין עליהן ופרצותיהן בשלש עשרה אמה ושליש

The Gemara answers: No proof can be brought from here, for Rabbi Yehuda is saying as follows: This one, the walls of a courtyard, are governed by the laws of a partition, and therefore its breaches must not be more than ten cubits. Whereas these, which surround the well, are governed by the laws of upright boards, and their breaches may be up to thirteen and a third cubits. Consequently, only an area of two beit se’a can be enclosed in this manner. Therefore, no proof can be brought from this baraita to Abaye’s dilemma.

בעא מיניה אביי מרבה תל המתלקט עשרה מתוך ארבע נידון משום דיומד או אינו נידון משום דיומד

Abaye raised another dilemma before Rabba: Can a mound that rises to a height of ten handbreadths within an area of four cubits serve as a double post or can it not serve as a double post?

אמר ליה תניתוה רבי שמעון בן אלעזר אומר היתה שם אבן מרובעת רואין כל שאילו תחלק ויש בה אמה לכאן ואמה לכאן נידון משום דיומד ואם לאו אינו נידון משום דיומד

Rabba said to him: We already learned this in the following baraita: Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: If a square stone was present, we see the stone as if it were altered: Wherever it can be divided in such a way that there would remain a cubit here in one direction and a cubit there at a right angle to it, it can serve as a double post; but if not, it cannot serve as a double post.

רבי ישמעאל בנו של רבי יוחנן בן ברוקה אומר היתה שם אבן עגולה רואין כל שאילו תחקק ותחלק ויש בה אמה לכאן ואמה לכאן נידון משום דיומד ואם לאו אינו נידון משום דיומד

Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Beroka, says: If a round stone was present, we see the stone as if it were altered: Wherever it could be chiseled down into a square, and then divided in such a way that there would remain a cubit here in one direction and a cubit there at a right angle to it, it can serve as a double post; but if not, it cannot serve as a double post. In any case, it is learned from these two statements that anything can serve as a double post if it is of the requisite size and shape.

במאי קא מיפלגי מר סבר חד רואין אמרינן תרי רואין לא אמרינן ומר סבר אפילו תרי רואין נמי אמרינן

With regard to the baraita itself, the Gemara asks: With regard to what do these two tanna’im disagree? The Gemara explains that one Sage, Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar, holds that we say: We see, once. However, we do not say: We see, twice. That is to say, while the stone can be considered as if it were divided, it cannot also be considered as though it were chiseled down into a square. And the other Sage, Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Beroka, holds that we even say: We see, twice. Since a mound is similar to a round stone, it can therefore serve as a double post.

בעא מיניה אביי מרבה חיצת הקנים קנה קנה פחות משלשה נידון משום דיומד או לאו

Abaye raised another dilemma before Rabba: With regard to a barrier of reeds in the shape of a double post, where each reed is less than three handbreadths apart from the next, so that they are considered connected by the principle of lavud, can it serve as a double post or not?

אמר ליה תניתוה היה שם אילן או גדר או חיצת הקנים נידון משום דיומד מאי לאו קנה קנה פחות משלשה

Rabba said to him: We already learned this law in a baraita that states: If a tree, or a fence, or a barrier of reeds was present, it serves as a double post. Does this not refer to a barrier of reeds where each reed is less than three handbreadths from the next?

לא גודריתא דקני אי הכי היינו אילן

The Gemara refutes this: No, it may perhaps refer to a thicket of reeds planted close together, forming a kind of post. The Gemara raises a difficulty: If so, it is equivalent to a tree, and the tanna would not repeat the same case twice.

ואלא מאי קנה קנה פחות משלשה היינו גדר אלא מאי אית לך למימר תרי גווני גדר הכא נמי תרי גווני אילן

The Gemara rejects this argument: What, then? Would you say that the baraita is referring to a barrier of reeds where each reed is less than three handbreadths apart? If so, it is a fence. Rather, what must you say is that the baraita teaches two types of fence; here too, then, you can say that it teaches two types of tree, and therefore no proof can be brought from this baraita.

איכא דאמרי גודריתא דקני קא מיבעיא ליה גודריתא דקני מאי אמר ליה תניתוה היה שם גדר או אילן או חיצת הקנים נידון משום דיומד מאי לאו גודריתא דקני

The Gemara cites an alternative version of the previous discussion: There are some who say that the question was posed differently, and the dilemma Abaye raised before Rabba was about whether or not a dense thicket of reeds can serve as a double post. Rabba said to him: We already learned this law in the following baraita: If a tree, or a fence, or a barrier of reeds was present, it can serve as a double post. Does this not refer to a thicket of reeds?

לא קנה קנה פחות משלשה אי הכי היינו גדר

The Gemara refutes this: No, it may perhaps refer to a barrier of reeds where each reed is less than three handbreadths apart from the next. The Gemara raises a difficulty: If so, it is exactly a fence.

ואלא מאי גודריתא דקני היינו אילן אלא מאי אית לך למימר

The Gemara rejects this argument: What, then? Would you say that the baraita refers to a thicket of reeds? If so, this is a tree. Rather, what must you say is

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