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Eruvin 6

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Summary

Today’s daf is dedicated by Alexis Rosoff Treeby in honor of the yahrzeit of Jennifer Rosoff, Malka Menucha bat Meir v’Esther Chaya z”l. And by Beth Fox in memory of her father Edward Fox, Ezra Chaim ben Zev v’Slova z”l on his shloshim. “A kind, wonderful man who always encouraged me in my learning. I miss him very much.”

If there is a breach in a wall of a mavoi, does it prevent one from using a korah or lechi to allow carrying the mavoi? At what size is it a problem and does it matter where the breach is? There are different types of alley – ones that are opened on both sizes (opposite sides) to the public domain (mavoi mefulash), ones that are only open on one side (mavoi satum) and ones that are “crooked” L-shaped, open on two sides but not opposite sides (mavoi akum). What are the laws for allowing carrying in each type of alley/mavoi? Can one accept stringencies of two different approaches? According to a braita, this is considered a bad practice.

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Eruvin 6

מִצִּידּוֹ — בְּעֶשֶׂר, מֵרֹאשׁוֹ — בְּאַרְבָּעָה.

if it was breached from its side, the side wall of the alleyway, carrying within the alleyway is prohibited if the breach is ten cubits wide. But if it was breached from its front, the wall that faces the public domain, carrying within the alleyway is prohibited even if the breach is only four handbreadths wide.

מַאי שְׁנָא מִצִּידּוֹ בְּעֶשֶׂר — דְּאָמַר פִּתְחָא הוּא, מֵרֹאשׁוֹ נָמֵי נֵימָא פִּתְחָא הוּא!

The Gemara poses a question: What is the difference such that carrying is prohibited due to a breach from the side only if the breach is ten cubits? This is because you say that up to ten cubits it is deemed an entrance. If the breach is in the front, let us also say it is an entrance, and carrying should be permitted if the breach is less than ten cubits.

אָמַר רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: כְּגוֹן שֶׁנִּפְרַץ בְּקֶרֶן זָוִית, דְּפִתְחָא בְּקֶרֶן זָוִית לָא עָבְדִי אִינָשֵׁי.

Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, said: We are dealing with a case where the breach is in a corner. Since people do not make an entrance in a corner, a breach of this kind cannot be viewed as an entrance, and if the breach is larger than four handbreadths it must be sealed.

וְרַב הוּנָא אָמַר: אֶחָד זֶה וְאֶחָד זֶה בְּאַרְבָּעָה. וְכֵן אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב הוּנָא לְרַב חָנָן בַּר רָבָא: לָא תִּפְלוֹג עִלַּאי דְּרַב אִיקְּלַע לְדַמְחַרְיָא וַעֲבַד עוֹבָדָא כְּווֹתִי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: רַב בִּקְעָה מָצָא וְגָדַר בָּהּ גָּדֵר.

Rav Huna disagreed with Rav Ḥanin bar Rava and said: There is no distinction between the side and the front, for in both this case and that, a breach of up to four handbreadths is allowed. And so Rav Huna said to Rav Ḥanan bar Rava: Do not dispute me, as Rav himself arrived at a place called Damḥarya and performed an action, i.e., issued a practical ruling, in accordance with my opinion. Rav Ḥanan bar Rava said in response to him: No proof can be brought from that incident, for in that case Rav found an unguarded valley and fenced it in, i.e., Rav saw the need to add a safeguard and was therefore stringent in this case. His ruling, however, was not generally applied.

אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: כְּווֹתֵיהּ דְּרַב הוּנָא מִסְתַּבְּרָא, דְּאִיתְּמַר: מָבוֹי עָקוֹם — רַב אָמַר: תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ. וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: תּוֹרָתוֹ כְּסָתוּם.

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: Rav Huna’s opinion stands to reason, as it was stated that the amora’im disagree about the following issue: With regard to a crooked, L-shaped alleyway that opens onto the public domain at both ends, Rav said: Its law is like that of an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides, and it must be treated in a manner suitable for such an alleyway, i.e., an opening in the form of a doorway must be constructed at both ends, or else such an opening must be constructed at the point where the two arms of the alleyway meet and a side post or a cross beam must be placed at each end. And Shmuel said: Its law is like that of an alleyway that is closed on one side, and all that is necessary is a side post or a cross beam at each end.

בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן? אִילֵימָא בְּיוֹתֵר מֵעֶשֶׂר — בְּהָא לֵימָא שְׁמוּאֵל תּוֹרָתוֹ כְּסָתוּם?

The Gemara clarifies the particular circumstances of the case: With what are we dealing? If you say that the width of the alleyway at the point of the turn is more than ten cubits wide, in this case, would Shmuel say that its law is like that of an alleyway that is closed on one side? With an opening of that size, it must be considered like an alleyway that is open on both ends.

אֶלָּא לָאו בְּעֶשֶׂר, וְקָאָמַר רַב תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ, אַלְמָא פִּירְצַת מָבוֹי מִצִּידּוֹ בְּאַרְבָּעָה!

Rather, are we not dealing with a case where the width of the alleyway at the point of the turn is ten cubits or less, and Rav nonetheless said that the law of such an alleyway is like that of an alleyway that is open on both ends. Apparently, a breach in the side wall of an alleyway renders it prohibited to carry even if it is only four handbreadths wide, in accordance with the opinion of Rav Huna.

וְרַב חָנָן בַּר רָבָא, שָׁאנֵי הָתָם דְּקָא בָּקְעִי בַּהּ רַבִּים.

And Rav Ḥanan bar Rava argues that the cases cannot be compared: It is different there, in the case of the L-shaped alleyway, for many people cross through the opening from one arm to the other. Since in practice the alleyway is open to regular traffic, the ruling is stringent even with regard to a small breach.

מִכְּלָל דְּרַב הוּנָא סָבַר אַף עַל גַּב דְּלָא בָּקְעִי בַּהּ רַבִּים, מַאי שְׁנָא מִדְּרַבִּי אַמֵּי וְרַבִּי אַסִּי?

The Gemara asks: Can it be inferred from this that Rav Huna holds that even if many people do not cross through the opening, a breach of four handbreadths still prohibits carrying? What is the difference between this case and the case of the ruling of Rabbi Ami and Rabbi Asi cited earlier, that an upright board of four handbreadths suffices in order to allow a breach of up to ten cubits?

הָתָם דְּאִיכָּא גִּידּוּדֵי, הָכָא דְּלֵיכָּא גִּידּוּדֵי.

The Gemara answers: There, there are remnants of a wall that render it difficult to pass through the breach, and therefore that breach does not annul the partitions. However, here, there are no remnants of a wall.

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: כֵּיצַד מְעָרְבִין דֶּרֶךְ רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים? עוֹשֶׂה צוּרַת הַפֶּתַח מִכָּאן, וְלֶחִי וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן. חֲנַנְיָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּית שַׁמַּאי אוֹמְרִים: עוֹשֶׂה דֶּלֶת מִכָּאן וְדֶלֶת מִכָּאן וּכְשֶׁהוּא יוֹצֵא וְנִכְנָס נוֹעֵל. בֵּית הִלֵּל אוֹמְרִים: עוֹשֶׂה דֶּלֶת מִכָּאן, וְלֶחִי וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן.

The Sages taught in a baraita: How does one render a public thoroughfare fit for carrying by means of an eiruv? He constructs an opening in the form of a doorway from here, on one side of the thoroughfare, and a side post or a cross beam from here, on the other side. Ḥananya disagrees and says: This is the subject of an early dispute between tanna’im, for Beit Shammai say: He constructs a door from here, on one side, and a door from here, on the other side, and when he exits and enters, he must lock the door. It is not sufficient to construct a symbolic door; rather, there must be a door that actually closes. And Beit Hillel say: He constructs a door from here, on one side, and a side post or a cross beam from here, on the other side.

וּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים מִי מִיעָרְבָא?! וְהָתַנְיָא: יָתֵר עַל כֵּן אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה,

The Gemara raises a fundamental question: Can a public domain be rendered fit for carrying by means of an eiruv? Wasn’t it taught in a baraita: Furthermore, Rabbi Yehuda said:

מִי שֶׁהָיוּ לוֹ שְׁנֵי בָתִּים מִשְּׁנֵי צִידֵּי רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים, עוֹשֶׂה לֶחִי מִכָּאן וְלֶחִי מִכָּאן, אוֹ קוֹרָה מִכָּאן וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן, וְנוֹשֵׂא וְנוֹתֵן בָּאֶמְצַע. אָמְרוּ לוֹ: אֵין מְעָרְבִין רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים בְּכָךְ.

One who has two houses opposite each other on the two sides of the public domain, and he wishes to carry from one house to the other on Shabbat via the public domain, he may place a side post from here, on one side of one of the houses, and an additional side post from here, on the other side. Alternatively, he may place a cross beam from here, from one end of one house, and an additional cross beam from here, from the other side of the house, and then he may carry objects and place them in the area between them, for in this manner he turns the middle area into a private domain. The Rabbis said to him: One cannot render a public domain fit for carrying by means of an eiruv in this manner. Apparently, there is no way to establish an absolute public domain fit for carrying by means of an eiruv.

וְכִי תֵּימָא בְּכָךְ הוּא דְּלָא מִיעָרְבָא, הָא בִּדְלָתוֹת מִיעָרְבָא, וְהָאָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אִילְמָלֵא דַּלְתוֹתֶיהָ נִנְעָלוֹת בַּלַּיְלָה — חַיָּיבִין עָלֶיהָ מִשּׁוּם רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים!

The Gemara questions its previous conclusion: And if you say that it is only in this manner, by way of a side post or a cross beam, that a public domain cannot be rendered fit for carrying, but by means of doors it can be rendered fit for carrying. But this is not true, as didn’t Rabba bar bar Ḥana say that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: With regard to Jerusalem, were it not for the fact that its doors are locked at night, one would be liable for carrying in it on Shabbat, because its thoroughfares are regarded as a public domain? This shows that the presence of a door is not sufficient to render it permitted to carry in a public domain; rather, the door must actually be locked.

וְאָמַר עוּלָּא: הָנֵי אֲבוּלֵּי דְמָחוֹזָא אִילְמָלֵא דַּלְתוֹתֵיהֶן נִנְעָלוֹת — חַיָּיבִין עֲלֵיהֶן מִשּׁוּם רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים.

And similarly, Ulla stated: With regard to the city entrances [abbulei] of Meḥoza, which meet the criteria for a public domain, were it not for the fact that their doors are locked, one would be liable for carrying in them, because they are regarded as a public domain. Apparently, without the actual locking of doors it is impossible to establish a public domain fit for carrying by means of the symbolic partitions of a side post or a cross beam. If so, how can the Sages in the baraita argue about how to establish a public domain fit for carrying?

אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה, הָכִי קָאָמַר: כֵּיצַד מְעָרְבִין מְבוֹאוֹת הַמְפוּלָּשִׁין לִרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים, עוֹשֶׂה צוּרַת הַפֶּתַח מִכָּאן וְלֶחִי וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן.

Rather, Rav Yehuda said: The wording of the baraita must be emended so that this is what it says: How does one render alleyways that are not themselves public domains but are open on two opposite sides into the public domain fit for carrying by means of an eiruv? He constructs an opening in the form of a doorway from here, on one side of the alleyway, and a side post or a cross beam from here, on the other side.

אִיתְּמַר. רַב אָמַר: הִילְכְתָא כְּתַנָּא קַמָּא. וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: הֲלָכָה כַּחֲנַנְיָה.

It was stated that the amora’im differed on how the halakha is to be decided with regard to this issue. Rav said: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of the anonymous first tanna of the baraita, and it is sufficient to have the form of a doorway on one side and a side post or cross beam on the other side in order to render it permitted to carry in an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides to the public domain. And Shmuel says: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Ḥananya, following the position of Beit Hillel, who also require a door on one side.

אִיבַּעְיָא לְהוּ: לַחֲנַנְיָה אַלִּיבָּא דְּבֵית הִלֵּל צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל, אוֹ אֵין צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל? תָּא שְׁמַע, דְּאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל. וְכֵן אָמַר רַב מַתְנָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל. אִיכָּא דְאָמְרִי אָמַר רַב מַתְנָה: בְּדִידִי הֲוָה עוֹבָדָא, וְאָמַר לִי שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵין צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל.

A dilemma was raised before the Sages concerning the position of Beit Hillel: According to Ḥananya, in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel, must this door be locked or need it not be locked? Come and hear a proof from that which Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said, who, as mentioned earlier, rules in accordance with Beit Hillel: The door need not be locked. And similarly, Rav Mattana said that Shmuel said: The door need not be locked. Some say that Rav Mattana said: A case involving this very issue happened to me, and Shmuel said to me: The door need not be locked.

בְּעוֹ מִינֵּיהּ מֵרַב עָנָן: צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל אוֹ אֵין צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל? אֲמַר לְהוּ: תָּא חֲזִי הָנֵי אֲבוּלֵּי דִּנְהַרְדָּעָא דְּטִימָן עַד פַּלְגַיְיהוּ בְּעַפְרָא, וְעָיֵיל וְנָפֵיק מָר שְׁמוּאֵל, וְלָא אֲמַר לְהוּ וְלָא מִידֵּי.

They raised a dilemma before Rav Anan with regard to this issue: Need the door be locked or need it not be locked? He said to them: Come and see these city entrances of Neharde’a that open on two opposite sides into the public domain, the gateways of which were filled up halfway with earth, so that the doors themselves could not possibly be locked. Mar Shmuel regularly goes in and out through them, but has never said anything to the people of Neharde’a about them. This shows that it is not necessary for the doors to be locked.

אָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: הָנָךְ מְגוּפוֹת הֲוַאי.

Rav Kahana rejected this proof and said: Those doors in Neharde’a were partially blocked, and therefore there was no need to lock them, but in general, the door of an alleyway that opens on both sides into the public domain must be locked.

כִּי אֲתָא רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר: פַּנְּיוּהּ לְעַפְרַיְיהוּ. לֵימָא קָסָבַר רַב נַחְמָן: צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל? לָא, כֵּיוָן דִּרְאוּיוֹת לִנְעוֹל, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין נִנְעָלוֹת.

The Gemara relates that when Rav Naḥman came to Neharde’a, he said: Clear away the earth, so that the doors can be locked. The Gemara attempts to understand Rav Naḥman’s instruction: Let us say that Rav Naḥman holds that the door of an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides must be locked. The Gemara explains: No, this is not proof. In order for carrying to be permitted in such an alleyway, it is enough that the doors be fit to be locked, even if they are not actually locked.

הָהוּא מָבוֹי עָקוֹם דַּהֲוָה בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא, רְמֵי עֲלֵיהּ חוּמְרֵיהּ דְּרַב וְחוּמְרֵיהּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל, וְאַצְרְכוּהוּ דְּלָתוֹת. חוּמְרֵיהּ דְּרַב — דְּאָמַר: תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ. וְהָאָמַר רַב הֲלָכָה כְּתַנָּא קַמָּא?!

The Gemara describes a certain crooked, L-shaped alleyway that was in Neharde’a, upon which they imposed the stringency of Rav and the stringency of Shmuel, and required it to have doors. The Gemara attempts to understand this ruling: The stringency of Rav, namely, that which he said, that an L-shaped alleyway is regarded like an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides. But this is difficult, for didn’t Rav say that the law follows the anonymous first tanna of the baraita, who says that even an open alleyway itself does not require doors, and that an opening in the form of a doorway suffices?

כִּשְׁמוּאֵל — דְּאָמַר: הֲלָכָה כַּחֲנַנְיָה. וְהָאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל תּוֹרָתוֹ כְּסָתוּם! כְּרַב דְּאָמַר תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ.

The Gemara answers: They required doors in accordance with the opinion of Shmuel, who said that the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Ḥananya. But this too is difficult, for if the doors were required in accordance with Shmuel’s opinion, didn’t Shmuel say that an L-shaped alleyway is regarded like an alleyway that is closed on one side, which does not need any doors at all? The Gemara explains: The doors were required in accordance with the opinion of Rav, who said that an L-shaped alleyway is regarded like an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides. Therefore, they adopted the stringencies of both Rav and Shmuel: Rav’s stringency that an L-shaped alleyway is deemed an open alleyway, and Shmuel’s stringency that an open alleyway requires a door.

וּמִי עָבְדִינַן כִּתְרֵי חוּמְרֵי? וְהָא תַּנְיָא: לְעוֹלָם הֲלָכָה כְּבֵית הִלֵּל, וְהָרוֹצֶה לַעֲשׂוֹת כְּדִבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי עוֹשֶׂה, כְּדִבְרֵי בֵּית הִלֵּל עוֹשֶׂה. מִקּוּלֵּי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּמִקּוּלֵּי בֵּית הִלֵּל — רָשָׁע. מֵחוּמְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּמֵחוּמְרֵי בֵּית הִלֵּל — עָלָיו הַכָּתוּב אוֹמֵר: ״הַכְּסִיל בְּחֹשֶׁךְ הוֹלֵךְ״. אֶלָּא, אִי כְּבֵית שַׁמַּאי כְּקוּלֵּיהוֹן וּכְחוּמְרֵיהוֹן, אִי כְּבֵית הִלֵּל כְּקוּלֵּיהוֹן וּכְחוּמְרֵיהוֹן.

The Gemara poses a question: But do we adopt the respective stringencies of two authorities who disagree on a series of issues? Wasn’t it taught in a baraita: The halakha is always in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel, but one who wishes to act in accordance with the opinion of Beit Shammai may do so, and one who wishes to act in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel may do so. If he wishes to adopt both the leniencies of Beit Shammai and also the leniencies of Beit Hillel, he is a wicked person. And if he wishes to adopt both the stringencies of Beit Shammai and also the stringencies of Beit Hillel, with regard to him the verse states: “The fool walks in darkness” (Ecclesiastes 2:14). Rather, he should act either in accordance with Beit Shammai, following both their leniencies and their stringencies, or in accordance with Beit Hillel, following both their leniencies and their stringencies.

הָא גוּפָא קַשְׁיָא. אָמְרַתְּ: לְעוֹלָם הֲלָכָה כְּבֵית הִלֵּל, וַהֲדַר אָמְרַתְּ: הָרוֹצֶה לַעֲשׂוֹת כְּדִבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי עוֹשֶׂה?!

The Gemara first raises a problem concerning the wording of the baraita: The baraita is itself difficult to understand, because it contains an internal contradiction between its clauses: You first said that the halakha is always in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel, and then you reversed that and said that one who wishes to act in accordance with the view of Beit Shammai may do so.

לָא קַשְׁיָא: כָּאן — קוֹדֶם בַּת קוֹל. כָּאן — לְאַחַר בַּת קוֹל.

The Gemara answers: This is not difficult. Here, the baraita’s statement that a person may act as he wishes was made before the Divine Voice emerged and announced that the halakha is always in accordance with Beit Hillel; and here, the statement that the halakha is always in accordance with Beit Hillel was made after the Divine Voice issued this ruling.

וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: הָא וְהָא — לְאַחַר בַּת קוֹל,

And if you wish, say a different answer: Both this statement and that statement were made after the Divine Voice announced that the halakha is in accordance with Beit Hillel,

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The Hadran Women’s Tapestry

Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories. 

I began Daf Yomi with the last cycle. I was inspired by the Hadran Siyum in Yerushalayim to continue with this cycle. I have learned Daf Yomi with Rabanit Michelle in over 25 countries on 6 continents ( missing Australia)

Barbara-Goldschlag
Barbara Goldschlag

Silver Spring, MD, United States

Last cycle, I listened to parts of various מסכתות. When the הדרן סיום was advertised, I listened to Michelle on נידה. I knew that בע”ה with the next cycle I was in (ב”נ). As I entered the סיום (early), I saw the signs and was overcome with emotion. I was randomly seated in the front row, and I cried many times that night. My choice to learn דף יומי was affirmed. It is one of the best I have made!

Miriam Tannenbaum
Miriam Tannenbaum

אפרת, Israel

I began to learn this cycle of Daf Yomi after my husband passed away 2 1/2 years ago. It seemed a good way to connect to him. Even though I don’t know whether he would have encouraged women learning Gemara, it would have opened wonderful conversations. It also gives me more depth for understanding my frum children and grandchildren. Thank you Hadran and Rabbanit Michelle Farber!!

Harriet Hartman
Harriet Hartman

Tzur Hadassah, Israel

I started learning Jan 2020 when I heard the new cycle was starting. I had tried during the last cycle and didn’t make it past a few weeks. Learning online from old men didn’t speak to my soul and I knew Talmud had to be a soul journey for me. Enter Hadran! Talmud from Rabbanit Michelle Farber from a woman’s perspective, a mother’s perspective and a modern perspective. Motivated to continue!

Keren Carter
Keren Carter

Brentwood, California, United States

I tried Daf Yomi in the middle of the last cycle after realizing I could listen to Michelle’s shiurim online. It lasted all of 2 days! Then the new cycle started just days before my father’s first yahrzeit and my youngest daughter’s bat mitzvah. It seemed the right time for a new beginning. My family, friends, colleagues are immensely supportive!

Catriella-Freedman-jpeg
Catriella Freedman

Zichron Yaakov, Israel

I started learning at the beginning of this cycle more than 2 years ago, and I have not missed a day or a daf. It’s been challenging and enlightening and even mind-numbing at times, but the learning and the shared experience have all been worth it. If you are open to it, there’s no telling what might come into your life.

Patti Evans
Patti Evans

Phoenix, Arizona, United States

I was inspired to start learning after attending the 2020 siyum in Binyanei Hauma. It has been a great experience for me. It’s amazing to see the origins of stories I’ve heard and rituals I’ve participated in my whole life. Even when I don’t understand the daf itself, I believe that the commitment to learning every day is valuable and has multiple benefits. And there will be another daf tomorrow!

Khaya Eisenberg
Khaya Eisenberg

Jerusalem, Israel

I started learning daf in January, 2020, being inspired by watching the Siyyum Hashas in Binyanei Haumah. I wasn’t sure I would be able to keep up with the task. When I went to school, Gemara was not an option. Fast forward to March, 2022, and each day starts with the daf. The challenge is now learning the intricacies of delving into the actual learning. Hadran community, thank you!

Rochel Cheifetz
Rochel Cheifetz

Riverdale, NY, United States

After experiences over the years of asking to join gemara shiurim for men and either being refused by the maggid shiur or being the only women there, sometimes behind a mechitza, I found out about Hadran sometime during the tail end of Masechet Shabbat, I think. Life has been much better since then.

Madeline Cohen
Madeline Cohen

London, United Kingdom

I start learning Daf Yomi in January 2020. The daily learning with Rabbanit Michelle has kept me grounded in this very uncertain time. Despite everything going on – the Pandemic, my personal life, climate change, war, etc… I know I can count on Hadran’s podcast to bring a smile to my face.
Deb Engel
Deb Engel

Los Angeles, United States

A friend mentioned that she was starting Daf Yomi in January 2020. I had heard of it and thought, why not? I decided to try it – go day by day and not think about the seven plus year commitment. Fast forward today, over two years in and I can’t imagine my life without Daf Yomi. It’s part of my morning ritual. If I have a busy day ahead of me I set my alarm to get up early to finish the day’s daf
Debbie Fitzerman
Debbie Fitzerman

Ontario, Canada

It’s hard to believe it has been over two years. Daf yomi has changed my life in so many ways and has been sustaining during this global sea change. Each day means learning something new, digging a little deeper, adding another lens, seeing worlds with new eyes. Daf has also fostered new friendships and deepened childhood connections, as long time friends have unexpectedly become havruta.

Joanna Rom
Joanna Rom

Northwest Washington, United States

Shortly after the death of my father, David Malik z”l, I made the commitment to Daf Yomi. While riding to Ben Gurion airport in January, Siyum HaShas was playing on the radio; that was the nudge I needed to get started. The “everyday-ness” of the Daf has been a meaningful spiritual practice, especial after COVID began & I was temporarily unable to say Kaddish at daily in-person minyanim.

Lisa S. Malik
Lisa S. Malik

Wynnewood, United States

In July, 2012 I wrote for Tablet about the first all women’s siyum at Matan in Jerusalem, with 100 women. At the time, I thought, I would like to start with the next cycle – listening to a podcast at different times of day makes it possible. It is incredible that after 10 years, so many women are so engaged!

Beth Kissileff
Beth Kissileff

Pittsburgh, United States

Attending the Siyyum in Jerusalem 26 months ago inspired me to become part of this community of learners. So many aspects of Jewish life have been illuminated by what we have learned in Seder Moed. My day is not complete without daf Yomi. I am so grateful to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Community.

Nancy Kolodny
Nancy Kolodny

Newton, United States

I started learning Talmud with R’ Haramati in Yeshivah of Flatbush. But after a respite of 60 years, Rabbanit Michelle lit my fire – after attending the last three world siyumim in Miami Beach, Meadowlands and Boca Raton, and now that I’m retired, I decided – “I can do this!” It has been an incredible journey so far, and I look forward to learning Daf everyday – Mazal Tov to everyone!

Roslyn Jaffe
Roslyn Jaffe

Florida, United States

Hearing and reading about the siyumim at the completion of the 13 th cycle Daf Yomi asked our shul rabbi about starting the Daf – he directed me to another shiur in town he thought would allow a woman to join, and so I did! Love seeing the sources for the Divrei Torah I’ve been hearing for the past decades of living an observant life and raising 5 children .

Jill Felder
Jill Felder

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States

I began learning the daf in January 2022. I initially “flew under the radar,” sharing my journey with my husband and a few close friends. I was apprehensive – who, me? Gemara? Now, 2 years in, I feel changed. The rigor of a daily commitment frames my days. The intellectual engagement enhances my knowledge. And the virtual community of learners has become a new family, weaving a glorious tapestry.

Gitta Jaroslawicz-Neufeld
Gitta Jaroslawicz-Neufeld

Far Rockaway, United States

I started learning Dec 2019 after reading “If all the Seas Were Ink”. I found
Daily daf sessions of Rabbanit Michelle in her house teaching, I then heard about the siyum and a new cycle starting wow I am in! Afternoon here in Sydney, my family and friends know this is my sacred time to hide away to live zoom and learn. Often it’s hard to absorb and relate then a gem shines touching my heart.

Dianne Kuchar
Dianne Kuchar

Dover Heights, Australia

Having never learned Talmud before, I started Daf Yomi in hopes of connecting to the Rabbinic tradition, sharing a daily idea on Instagram (@dafyomiadventures). With Hadran and Sefaria, I slowly gained confidence in my skills and understanding. Now, part of the Pardes Jewish Educators Program, I can’t wait to bring this love of learning with me as I continue to pass it on to my future students.

Hannah-G-pic
Hannah Greenberg

Pennsylvania, United States

Eruvin 6

מִצִּידּוֹ — בְּעֶשֶׂר, מֵרֹאשׁוֹ — בְּאַרְבָּעָה.

if it was breached from its side, the side wall of the alleyway, carrying within the alleyway is prohibited if the breach is ten cubits wide. But if it was breached from its front, the wall that faces the public domain, carrying within the alleyway is prohibited even if the breach is only four handbreadths wide.

מַאי שְׁנָא מִצִּידּוֹ בְּעֶשֶׂר — דְּאָמַר פִּתְחָא הוּא, מֵרֹאשׁוֹ נָמֵי נֵימָא פִּתְחָא הוּא!

The Gemara poses a question: What is the difference such that carrying is prohibited due to a breach from the side only if the breach is ten cubits? This is because you say that up to ten cubits it is deemed an entrance. If the breach is in the front, let us also say it is an entrance, and carrying should be permitted if the breach is less than ten cubits.

אָמַר רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: כְּגוֹן שֶׁנִּפְרַץ בְּקֶרֶן זָוִית, דְּפִתְחָא בְּקֶרֶן זָוִית לָא עָבְדִי אִינָשֵׁי.

Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, said: We are dealing with a case where the breach is in a corner. Since people do not make an entrance in a corner, a breach of this kind cannot be viewed as an entrance, and if the breach is larger than four handbreadths it must be sealed.

וְרַב הוּנָא אָמַר: אֶחָד זֶה וְאֶחָד זֶה בְּאַרְבָּעָה. וְכֵן אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב הוּנָא לְרַב חָנָן בַּר רָבָא: לָא תִּפְלוֹג עִלַּאי דְּרַב אִיקְּלַע לְדַמְחַרְיָא וַעֲבַד עוֹבָדָא כְּווֹתִי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: רַב בִּקְעָה מָצָא וְגָדַר בָּהּ גָּדֵר.

Rav Huna disagreed with Rav Ḥanin bar Rava and said: There is no distinction between the side and the front, for in both this case and that, a breach of up to four handbreadths is allowed. And so Rav Huna said to Rav Ḥanan bar Rava: Do not dispute me, as Rav himself arrived at a place called Damḥarya and performed an action, i.e., issued a practical ruling, in accordance with my opinion. Rav Ḥanan bar Rava said in response to him: No proof can be brought from that incident, for in that case Rav found an unguarded valley and fenced it in, i.e., Rav saw the need to add a safeguard and was therefore stringent in this case. His ruling, however, was not generally applied.

אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: כְּווֹתֵיהּ דְּרַב הוּנָא מִסְתַּבְּרָא, דְּאִיתְּמַר: מָבוֹי עָקוֹם — רַב אָמַר: תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ. וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: תּוֹרָתוֹ כְּסָתוּם.

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: Rav Huna’s opinion stands to reason, as it was stated that the amora’im disagree about the following issue: With regard to a crooked, L-shaped alleyway that opens onto the public domain at both ends, Rav said: Its law is like that of an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides, and it must be treated in a manner suitable for such an alleyway, i.e., an opening in the form of a doorway must be constructed at both ends, or else such an opening must be constructed at the point where the two arms of the alleyway meet and a side post or a cross beam must be placed at each end. And Shmuel said: Its law is like that of an alleyway that is closed on one side, and all that is necessary is a side post or a cross beam at each end.

בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן? אִילֵימָא בְּיוֹתֵר מֵעֶשֶׂר — בְּהָא לֵימָא שְׁמוּאֵל תּוֹרָתוֹ כְּסָתוּם?

The Gemara clarifies the particular circumstances of the case: With what are we dealing? If you say that the width of the alleyway at the point of the turn is more than ten cubits wide, in this case, would Shmuel say that its law is like that of an alleyway that is closed on one side? With an opening of that size, it must be considered like an alleyway that is open on both ends.

אֶלָּא לָאו בְּעֶשֶׂר, וְקָאָמַר רַב תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ, אַלְמָא פִּירְצַת מָבוֹי מִצִּידּוֹ בְּאַרְבָּעָה!

Rather, are we not dealing with a case where the width of the alleyway at the point of the turn is ten cubits or less, and Rav nonetheless said that the law of such an alleyway is like that of an alleyway that is open on both ends. Apparently, a breach in the side wall of an alleyway renders it prohibited to carry even if it is only four handbreadths wide, in accordance with the opinion of Rav Huna.

וְרַב חָנָן בַּר רָבָא, שָׁאנֵי הָתָם דְּקָא בָּקְעִי בַּהּ רַבִּים.

And Rav Ḥanan bar Rava argues that the cases cannot be compared: It is different there, in the case of the L-shaped alleyway, for many people cross through the opening from one arm to the other. Since in practice the alleyway is open to regular traffic, the ruling is stringent even with regard to a small breach.

מִכְּלָל דְּרַב הוּנָא סָבַר אַף עַל גַּב דְּלָא בָּקְעִי בַּהּ רַבִּים, מַאי שְׁנָא מִדְּרַבִּי אַמֵּי וְרַבִּי אַסִּי?

The Gemara asks: Can it be inferred from this that Rav Huna holds that even if many people do not cross through the opening, a breach of four handbreadths still prohibits carrying? What is the difference between this case and the case of the ruling of Rabbi Ami and Rabbi Asi cited earlier, that an upright board of four handbreadths suffices in order to allow a breach of up to ten cubits?

הָתָם דְּאִיכָּא גִּידּוּדֵי, הָכָא דְּלֵיכָּא גִּידּוּדֵי.

The Gemara answers: There, there are remnants of a wall that render it difficult to pass through the breach, and therefore that breach does not annul the partitions. However, here, there are no remnants of a wall.

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: כֵּיצַד מְעָרְבִין דֶּרֶךְ רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים? עוֹשֶׂה צוּרַת הַפֶּתַח מִכָּאן, וְלֶחִי וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן. חֲנַנְיָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּית שַׁמַּאי אוֹמְרִים: עוֹשֶׂה דֶּלֶת מִכָּאן וְדֶלֶת מִכָּאן וּכְשֶׁהוּא יוֹצֵא וְנִכְנָס נוֹעֵל. בֵּית הִלֵּל אוֹמְרִים: עוֹשֶׂה דֶּלֶת מִכָּאן, וְלֶחִי וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן.

The Sages taught in a baraita: How does one render a public thoroughfare fit for carrying by means of an eiruv? He constructs an opening in the form of a doorway from here, on one side of the thoroughfare, and a side post or a cross beam from here, on the other side. Ḥananya disagrees and says: This is the subject of an early dispute between tanna’im, for Beit Shammai say: He constructs a door from here, on one side, and a door from here, on the other side, and when he exits and enters, he must lock the door. It is not sufficient to construct a symbolic door; rather, there must be a door that actually closes. And Beit Hillel say: He constructs a door from here, on one side, and a side post or a cross beam from here, on the other side.

וּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים מִי מִיעָרְבָא?! וְהָתַנְיָא: יָתֵר עַל כֵּן אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה,

The Gemara raises a fundamental question: Can a public domain be rendered fit for carrying by means of an eiruv? Wasn’t it taught in a baraita: Furthermore, Rabbi Yehuda said:

מִי שֶׁהָיוּ לוֹ שְׁנֵי בָתִּים מִשְּׁנֵי צִידֵּי רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים, עוֹשֶׂה לֶחִי מִכָּאן וְלֶחִי מִכָּאן, אוֹ קוֹרָה מִכָּאן וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן, וְנוֹשֵׂא וְנוֹתֵן בָּאֶמְצַע. אָמְרוּ לוֹ: אֵין מְעָרְבִין רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים בְּכָךְ.

One who has two houses opposite each other on the two sides of the public domain, and he wishes to carry from one house to the other on Shabbat via the public domain, he may place a side post from here, on one side of one of the houses, and an additional side post from here, on the other side. Alternatively, he may place a cross beam from here, from one end of one house, and an additional cross beam from here, from the other side of the house, and then he may carry objects and place them in the area between them, for in this manner he turns the middle area into a private domain. The Rabbis said to him: One cannot render a public domain fit for carrying by means of an eiruv in this manner. Apparently, there is no way to establish an absolute public domain fit for carrying by means of an eiruv.

וְכִי תֵּימָא בְּכָךְ הוּא דְּלָא מִיעָרְבָא, הָא בִּדְלָתוֹת מִיעָרְבָא, וְהָאָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אִילְמָלֵא דַּלְתוֹתֶיהָ נִנְעָלוֹת בַּלַּיְלָה — חַיָּיבִין עָלֶיהָ מִשּׁוּם רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים!

The Gemara questions its previous conclusion: And if you say that it is only in this manner, by way of a side post or a cross beam, that a public domain cannot be rendered fit for carrying, but by means of doors it can be rendered fit for carrying. But this is not true, as didn’t Rabba bar bar Ḥana say that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: With regard to Jerusalem, were it not for the fact that its doors are locked at night, one would be liable for carrying in it on Shabbat, because its thoroughfares are regarded as a public domain? This shows that the presence of a door is not sufficient to render it permitted to carry in a public domain; rather, the door must actually be locked.

וְאָמַר עוּלָּא: הָנֵי אֲבוּלֵּי דְמָחוֹזָא אִילְמָלֵא דַּלְתוֹתֵיהֶן נִנְעָלוֹת — חַיָּיבִין עֲלֵיהֶן מִשּׁוּם רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים.

And similarly, Ulla stated: With regard to the city entrances [abbulei] of Meḥoza, which meet the criteria for a public domain, were it not for the fact that their doors are locked, one would be liable for carrying in them, because they are regarded as a public domain. Apparently, without the actual locking of doors it is impossible to establish a public domain fit for carrying by means of the symbolic partitions of a side post or a cross beam. If so, how can the Sages in the baraita argue about how to establish a public domain fit for carrying?

אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה, הָכִי קָאָמַר: כֵּיצַד מְעָרְבִין מְבוֹאוֹת הַמְפוּלָּשִׁין לִרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים, עוֹשֶׂה צוּרַת הַפֶּתַח מִכָּאן וְלֶחִי וְקוֹרָה מִכָּאן.

Rather, Rav Yehuda said: The wording of the baraita must be emended so that this is what it says: How does one render alleyways that are not themselves public domains but are open on two opposite sides into the public domain fit for carrying by means of an eiruv? He constructs an opening in the form of a doorway from here, on one side of the alleyway, and a side post or a cross beam from here, on the other side.

אִיתְּמַר. רַב אָמַר: הִילְכְתָא כְּתַנָּא קַמָּא. וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: הֲלָכָה כַּחֲנַנְיָה.

It was stated that the amora’im differed on how the halakha is to be decided with regard to this issue. Rav said: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of the anonymous first tanna of the baraita, and it is sufficient to have the form of a doorway on one side and a side post or cross beam on the other side in order to render it permitted to carry in an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides to the public domain. And Shmuel says: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Ḥananya, following the position of Beit Hillel, who also require a door on one side.

אִיבַּעְיָא לְהוּ: לַחֲנַנְיָה אַלִּיבָּא דְּבֵית הִלֵּל צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל, אוֹ אֵין צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל? תָּא שְׁמַע, דְּאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל. וְכֵן אָמַר רַב מַתְנָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל. אִיכָּא דְאָמְרִי אָמַר רַב מַתְנָה: בְּדִידִי הֲוָה עוֹבָדָא, וְאָמַר לִי שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵין צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל.

A dilemma was raised before the Sages concerning the position of Beit Hillel: According to Ḥananya, in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel, must this door be locked or need it not be locked? Come and hear a proof from that which Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said, who, as mentioned earlier, rules in accordance with Beit Hillel: The door need not be locked. And similarly, Rav Mattana said that Shmuel said: The door need not be locked. Some say that Rav Mattana said: A case involving this very issue happened to me, and Shmuel said to me: The door need not be locked.

בְּעוֹ מִינֵּיהּ מֵרַב עָנָן: צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל אוֹ אֵין צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל? אֲמַר לְהוּ: תָּא חֲזִי הָנֵי אֲבוּלֵּי דִּנְהַרְדָּעָא דְּטִימָן עַד פַּלְגַיְיהוּ בְּעַפְרָא, וְעָיֵיל וְנָפֵיק מָר שְׁמוּאֵל, וְלָא אֲמַר לְהוּ וְלָא מִידֵּי.

They raised a dilemma before Rav Anan with regard to this issue: Need the door be locked or need it not be locked? He said to them: Come and see these city entrances of Neharde’a that open on two opposite sides into the public domain, the gateways of which were filled up halfway with earth, so that the doors themselves could not possibly be locked. Mar Shmuel regularly goes in and out through them, but has never said anything to the people of Neharde’a about them. This shows that it is not necessary for the doors to be locked.

אָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: הָנָךְ מְגוּפוֹת הֲוַאי.

Rav Kahana rejected this proof and said: Those doors in Neharde’a were partially blocked, and therefore there was no need to lock them, but in general, the door of an alleyway that opens on both sides into the public domain must be locked.

כִּי אֲתָא רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר: פַּנְּיוּהּ לְעַפְרַיְיהוּ. לֵימָא קָסָבַר רַב נַחְמָן: צָרִיךְ לִנְעוֹל? לָא, כֵּיוָן דִּרְאוּיוֹת לִנְעוֹל, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין נִנְעָלוֹת.

The Gemara relates that when Rav Naḥman came to Neharde’a, he said: Clear away the earth, so that the doors can be locked. The Gemara attempts to understand Rav Naḥman’s instruction: Let us say that Rav Naḥman holds that the door of an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides must be locked. The Gemara explains: No, this is not proof. In order for carrying to be permitted in such an alleyway, it is enough that the doors be fit to be locked, even if they are not actually locked.

הָהוּא מָבוֹי עָקוֹם דַּהֲוָה בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא, רְמֵי עֲלֵיהּ חוּמְרֵיהּ דְּרַב וְחוּמְרֵיהּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל, וְאַצְרְכוּהוּ דְּלָתוֹת. חוּמְרֵיהּ דְּרַב — דְּאָמַר: תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ. וְהָאָמַר רַב הֲלָכָה כְּתַנָּא קַמָּא?!

The Gemara describes a certain crooked, L-shaped alleyway that was in Neharde’a, upon which they imposed the stringency of Rav and the stringency of Shmuel, and required it to have doors. The Gemara attempts to understand this ruling: The stringency of Rav, namely, that which he said, that an L-shaped alleyway is regarded like an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides. But this is difficult, for didn’t Rav say that the law follows the anonymous first tanna of the baraita, who says that even an open alleyway itself does not require doors, and that an opening in the form of a doorway suffices?

כִּשְׁמוּאֵל — דְּאָמַר: הֲלָכָה כַּחֲנַנְיָה. וְהָאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל תּוֹרָתוֹ כְּסָתוּם! כְּרַב דְּאָמַר תּוֹרָתוֹ כִּמְפוּלָּשׁ.

The Gemara answers: They required doors in accordance with the opinion of Shmuel, who said that the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Ḥananya. But this too is difficult, for if the doors were required in accordance with Shmuel’s opinion, didn’t Shmuel say that an L-shaped alleyway is regarded like an alleyway that is closed on one side, which does not need any doors at all? The Gemara explains: The doors were required in accordance with the opinion of Rav, who said that an L-shaped alleyway is regarded like an alleyway that is open on two opposite sides. Therefore, they adopted the stringencies of both Rav and Shmuel: Rav’s stringency that an L-shaped alleyway is deemed an open alleyway, and Shmuel’s stringency that an open alleyway requires a door.

וּמִי עָבְדִינַן כִּתְרֵי חוּמְרֵי? וְהָא תַּנְיָא: לְעוֹלָם הֲלָכָה כְּבֵית הִלֵּל, וְהָרוֹצֶה לַעֲשׂוֹת כְּדִבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי עוֹשֶׂה, כְּדִבְרֵי בֵּית הִלֵּל עוֹשֶׂה. מִקּוּלֵּי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּמִקּוּלֵּי בֵּית הִלֵּל — רָשָׁע. מֵחוּמְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּמֵחוּמְרֵי בֵּית הִלֵּל — עָלָיו הַכָּתוּב אוֹמֵר: ״הַכְּסִיל בְּחֹשֶׁךְ הוֹלֵךְ״. אֶלָּא, אִי כְּבֵית שַׁמַּאי כְּקוּלֵּיהוֹן וּכְחוּמְרֵיהוֹן, אִי כְּבֵית הִלֵּל כְּקוּלֵּיהוֹן וּכְחוּמְרֵיהוֹן.

The Gemara poses a question: But do we adopt the respective stringencies of two authorities who disagree on a series of issues? Wasn’t it taught in a baraita: The halakha is always in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel, but one who wishes to act in accordance with the opinion of Beit Shammai may do so, and one who wishes to act in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel may do so. If he wishes to adopt both the leniencies of Beit Shammai and also the leniencies of Beit Hillel, he is a wicked person. And if he wishes to adopt both the stringencies of Beit Shammai and also the stringencies of Beit Hillel, with regard to him the verse states: “The fool walks in darkness” (Ecclesiastes 2:14). Rather, he should act either in accordance with Beit Shammai, following both their leniencies and their stringencies, or in accordance with Beit Hillel, following both their leniencies and their stringencies.

הָא גוּפָא קַשְׁיָא. אָמְרַתְּ: לְעוֹלָם הֲלָכָה כְּבֵית הִלֵּל, וַהֲדַר אָמְרַתְּ: הָרוֹצֶה לַעֲשׂוֹת כְּדִבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי עוֹשֶׂה?!

The Gemara first raises a problem concerning the wording of the baraita: The baraita is itself difficult to understand, because it contains an internal contradiction between its clauses: You first said that the halakha is always in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel, and then you reversed that and said that one who wishes to act in accordance with the view of Beit Shammai may do so.

לָא קַשְׁיָא: כָּאן — קוֹדֶם בַּת קוֹל. כָּאן — לְאַחַר בַּת קוֹל.

The Gemara answers: This is not difficult. Here, the baraita’s statement that a person may act as he wishes was made before the Divine Voice emerged and announced that the halakha is always in accordance with Beit Hillel; and here, the statement that the halakha is always in accordance with Beit Hillel was made after the Divine Voice issued this ruling.

וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: הָא וְהָא — לְאַחַר בַּת קוֹל,

And if you wish, say a different answer: Both this statement and that statement were made after the Divine Voice announced that the halakha is in accordance with Beit Hillel,

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