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Summary
The mishna and gemara raise more cases of dofen akuma, when the disqualified s’chach is within four cubits of the walls, we view the wall as if it continues onto the s’chach and it does not disqualify the sukkah. Air space in the s’chach disqualifies the sukkah is it covers a space of three handbreadths. There are two different versions regarding a debate about whether non-kosher s’chach disqualifies a sukkah at four handbreadths or at four cubits.
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Sukkah 17
מַתְנִי׳ הִרְחִיק אֶת הַסִּיכּוּךְ מִן הַדְּפָנוֹת שְׁלֹשָׁה טְפָחִים — פְּסוּלָה.
MISHNA: If one distanced the roofing from the walls of the sukka at a distance of three handbreadths the sukka is unfit, because three handbreadths of open space, even adjacent to the walls, render the sukka unfit.
בַּיִת שֶׁנִּפְחַת וְסִיכֵּךְ עַל גַּבָּיו — אִם יֵשׁ מִן הַכּוֹתֶל לַסִּיכּוּךְ אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, פְּסוּלָה.
In the case of a house that was breached, creating a hole in the middle of the roof, and one roofed over the breach, if from the wall to the roofing there are four or more cubits of the remaining original roof, it is an unfit sukka. If the roofing is less than four cubits from the wall, the sukka is fit, based on the principle of curved wall; the remaining intact ceiling is considered an extension of the vertical wall.
וְכֵן חָצֵר שֶׁהִיא מוּקֶּפֶת אַכְסַדְרָה, סוּכָּה גְּדוֹלָה שֶׁהִקִּיפוּהָ בְּדָבָר שֶׁאֵין מְסַכְּכִין בּוֹ — אִם יֵשׁ תַּחְתָּיו אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, פְּסוּלָה.
And likewise, in the case of a courtyard that is surrounded on three sides by a portico, which has a roof but no walls, if one placed roofing over the courtyard between the different sides of the portico and the roof of the portico is four cubits wide, the sukka is unfit. Similarly, a large sukka that was surrounded at the edge of its roofing with material with which one may not roof a sukka, e.g., vessels susceptible to ritual impurity, if there are four cubits beneath the unfit roofing, the sukka is unfit. The principle of curved wall does not apply to unfit roofing that measures four cubits or more.
גְּמָ׳ כׇּל הָנֵי לְמָה לִי? צְרִיכָא: דְּאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן בַּיִת שֶׁנִּפְחַת — מִשּׁוּם דְּהָנֵי מְחִיצוֹת לְבַיִת עֲבִידָן. אֲבָל חָצֵר הַמּוּקֶּפֶת אַכְסַדְרָה, דִּמְחִיצוֹת לָאו לְאַכְסַדְרָה עֲבִידִי — אֵימָא לָא, צְרִיכָא.
GEMARA: The Gemara asks: Why do I need all these cases based on the identical principle of curved wall? The Gemara explains: It is necessary to cite all the cases, as, if the mishna had taught us only the case of the house that was breached, I would have said that the principle of curved wall applies there because those walls were established for the house. Therefore, when the house is transformed into a sukka, the walls continue to serve their original function as walls of the sukka. However, with regard to a courtyard surrounded on each of the three sides by a portico, where its walls were established not for the portico but for the house that opens into the portico, and they happen to serve as the interior walls of the portico, I could say no, they are not considered as connected to the roofing at all. Consequently, it is necessary for the mishna to cite that case as well.
וְאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן הָנֵי תַּרְתֵּי, מִשּׁוּם דִּסְכָכָן סְכָךְ כָּשֵׁר הוּא, אֲבָל סוּכָּה גְּדוֹלָה שֶׁהִקִּיפוּהָ בְּדָבָר שֶׁאֵין מְסַכְּכִין בּוֹ, דִּסְכָכָהּ סְכָךְ פָּסוּל הוּא — אֵימָא לָא, צְרִיכָא.
And if the mishna taught us only these two cases, one would have said that the principle of curved wall can apply because all of their roofing is fit roofing, and the preexisting roof of the house and the portico is unfit only due to the principle: Prepare it, and not from that which has already been prepared. However, here, in the case of a large sukka that was surrounded at the edge of its roofing with material with which one may not roof a sukka, where some of its roofing is unfit and the fit roofing does not actually reach the wall, one could say no, the roofing is unfit. Therefore, it is necessary to state that case as well.
אָמַר רַבָּה: אַשְׁכַּחְתִּינְהוּ לְרַבָּנַן דְּבֵי רַב דְּיָתְבִי וְקָאָמְרִי: אֲוִיר פּוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה, סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבָּעָה.
§ Rabba said: I found the Sages of the school of Rav, who were sitting and saying in the name of Rav: Space without roofing renders the sukka unfit with a measure of three handbreadths of space. However, unfit roofing renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four handbreadths.
וְאָמֵינָא לְהוּ אֲנָא: אֲוִיר דְּפוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה מְנָא לְכוּ — דִּתְנַן: הִרְחִיק אֶת הַסִּיכּוּךְ מִן הַדְּפָנוֹת שְׁלֹשָׁה טְפָחִים — פְּסוּלָה. סְכָךְ פָּסוּל נָמֵי לָא לִיפְסֹיל אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, דִּתְנַן: בַּיִת שֶׁנִּפְחַת וְסִיכֵּךְ עַל גַּבָּיו, אִם יֵשׁ בֵּין הַסִּיכּוּךְ לַכּוֹתֶל אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת — פְּסוּלָה!
And I said to them: From where do you derive that space renders the sukka unfit when it amounts to three handbreadths? It is as we learned in the mishna: If one distanced the roofing from the walls of the sukka at a distance of three handbreadths, the sukka is unfit. If, indeed, this mishna is the source of the halakha, also in the case of unfit roofing, let it render the sukka unfit only if the roofing measures four cubits, as we learned in the same mishna: With regard to a house that was breached and one roofed over the breach, if from the wall to the roofing there is four or more cubits of the remaining original roof, the sukka is unfit.
וַאֲמַרוּ לִי: בַּר מִינַּהּ דְּהַהִיא, דְּרַב וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ: מִשּׁוּם דּוֹפֶן עֲקוּמָּה נָגְעוּ בָּהּ.
And they said to me: Cite proof from the mishna, apart from this case, as both Rav and Shmuel said that in this case, the Sages in the mishna touched upon the principle of curved wall. In other words, the fact that this house is a fit sukka is unrelated to the minimum measure of unfit roofing. It is fit due to the principle of curved wall.
וְאָמֵינָא לְהוּ אֲנָא: מָה אִילּוּ אִיכָּא סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פָּחוֹת מֵאַרְבָּעָה וַאֲוִיר פָּחוֹת מִשְּׁלֹשָׁה מַאי? כְּשֵׁרָה. מַלְּיֵיהּ בְּשַׁפּוּדִין מַאי — פְּסוּלָה, וְלֹא יְהֵא אֲוִיר הַפּוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה כִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל הַפּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבָּעָה!
And I said to them: What if there is a sukka with less than four handbreadths of unfit roofing and an adjacent space of less than three handbreadths; what would be the status of the sukka? The sukka would be fit, since it lacks the minimum measure of both space and unfit roofing that renders a sukka unfit. If one then filled the space with skewers, what would be the status of the sukka? It would be unfit, as there would be more than four handbreadths of unfit roofing. But shouldn’t space, which is more stringent, as it renders the sukka unfit with only three handbreadths, be as stringent as unfit roofing, which renders the sukka unfit only with four handbreadths of unfit roofing?
וַאֲמַרוּ לִי: אִי הָכִי, לְדִידָךְ נָמֵי דְּאָמְרַתְּ סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, מָה אִילּוּ אִיכָּא סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פָּחוֹת מֵאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת וַאֲוִיר פָּחוֹת מִשְּׁלֹשָׁה, מַאי? כְּשֵׁרָה. מַלְּיֵיהּ בְּשַׁפּוּדִין מַאי — פְּסוּלָה. לֹא יְהֵא אֲוִיר הַפּוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה כִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל הַפּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת!
And they said to me: If so, according to you, who said that unfit roofing renders a sukka unfit only with four cubits of unfit roofing, the same question arises. Just as, if there were a sukka with less than four cubits of unfit roofing and an adjacent space measuring less than three handbreadths, what would be its status? It would be fit. If one then filled the space with skewers, what would be its status? It would be unfit. Here too, the question arises: Shouldn’t space, which is more stringent, as it renders the sukka unfit with only three handbreadths of space, be as stringent as unfit roofing, which renders the sukka unfit with only four cubits of unfit roofing?
וְאָמֵינָא לְהוּ אֲנָא: הַאי מַאי? בִּשְׁלָמָא לְדִידִי דְּאָמֵינָא אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת —
And I said to them: What is this comparison? Granted, according to my opinion, that I say that the measure of unfit roofing that renders a sukka unfit is four cubits,
מִשּׁוּם שִׁיעוּרָא וְלָאו שִׁיעוּרָא הוּא. הַאי לָאו שִׁיעוּרָא הוּא, כֵּיוָן דְּלָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ לַהֲדָדֵי — לָא מִצְטָרְפִי.
the status of the sukka is determined on the basis of whether it is the requisite measure or it is not the requisite measure. In other words, the difference between unfit roofing that is four cubits and unfit roofing that is less is a unique halakha, completely unrelated to the principle of curved wall. Similarly, it is a unique halakha that three handbreadths of space in a roof render a sukka unfit. In this case, there is not the requisite measure according to either halakha; and since their measures are not equal to each other, they do not combine to render the sukka unfit. The sukka is rendered unfit only when the measure of unfit roofing reaches four cubits.
אֶלָּא לְדִידְכוּ דְּאָמְרִיתוּ שִׁיעוּר מִשּׁוּם הַפְלָגָה — מָה לִי אִיתַּפְלַג בִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל, מָה לִי אִתַּפְלַג בִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל וַאֲוִיר.
However, according to you, who say that the measure of four handbreadths for unfit roofing is due to the distance between the wall and the fit roofing, which renders the sukka unfit, what is the difference to me if it was distanced due to unfit roofing, and what is the difference to me if it was distanced due to a combination of unfit roofing and space? In either case, the distance between the roofing and the wall should prevent connecting the roofing to the wall. This concludes Rabba’s account of his exchange with the Sages of the school of Rav.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וּלְמָר נָמֵי, נְהִי דְּלָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ בְּסוּכָּה גְּדוֹלָה, בְּסוּכָּה קְטַנָּה מִי לָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ?
Abaye said to Rabba: And according to the Master, too, although their measures are not equal in a large sukka, which is larger than four cubits, in a small sukka aren’t their measures equal? In a minimally sized sukka, seven by seven handbreadths, three handbreadths of unfit roofing must render the sukka unfit. If the measure of fitness were to remain up to four handbreadths, that would mean that a sukka with a majority of unfit roofing is fit, which is unreasonable. Therefore, Rabba’s contention that the measures of unfit roofing and space are totally different is not precise.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָתָם לָאו מִשּׁוּם דְּשָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ לַהֲדָדֵי הוּא, אֶלָּא מִשּׁוּם דְּלֵיתֵיהּ לְשִׁיעוּרָא דְסוּכָּה הוּא.
Rabba said to him: There, in the case of the minimally-sized sukka, the fact that the sukka is unfit is not due to the fact that their measures are equal. Rather, it is due to the fact that in a case where the unfit roofing is three handbreadths, the sukka lacks the minimum required measure of fit roofing. In other words, it is not the amount of unfit roofing that creates the problem; rather, it is that the fit area of the sukka is too small.
וְכׇל הֵיכָא דְּלָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ לַהֲדָדֵי לָא מִצְטָרְפִי? וְהָתְנַן: הַבֶּגֶד שְׁלֹשָׁה עַל שְׁלֹשָׁה, הַשַּׂק אַרְבָּעָה עַל אַרְבָּעָה, הָעוֹר חֲמִשָּׁה עַל חֲמִשָּׁה, מַפָּץ שִׁשָּׁה עַל שִׁשָּׁה.
Rabba maintains that since the two requisite measures of unfitness are not equal, they do not join together. The Gemara asks: And anywhere that their measures are not equal, do they not combine to constitute the requisite measure? But didn’t we learn in the mishna: The garment must be at least three by three handbreadths in order to become a primary source of ritual impurity by means of ritual impurity imparted by treading of a zav; and the sackcloth made from goats’ hair must be at least four by four handbreadths; and the animal hide must be five by five; and a mat must be six by six?
וְתָנֵי עֲלַהּ: הַבֶּגֶד וְהַשַּׂק, הַשַּׂק וְהָעוֹר, הָעוֹר וְהַמַּפָּץ — מִצְטָרְפִין זֶה עִם זֶה.
And a baraita is taught concerning the mishna: The garment and the sackcloth, the sackcloth and the hide, and the hide and the mat join together with one another. If one attaches a piece of material that has a smaller, more stringent measure for ritual impurity to a piece of material that has a larger, more lenient measure, the combined cloth is susceptible to contract ritual impurity if together they compose the larger measure. Apparently, two items whose measures are not equal combine to compose the more lenient measure.
הָתָם כִּדְקָתָנֵי טַעְמָא, אָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן: מָה טַעַם — הוֹאִיל וְרָאוּי לְטַמֵּא מוֹשָׁב. כְּדִתְנַן: הַמְקַצֵּעַ מִכּוּלָּן טֶפַח עַל טֶפַח — טָמֵא.
The Gemara rejects this. There, it is as the reason is taught that Rabbi Shimon said: What is the reason that these different fabrics combine? They combine since all the component materials are fit to become ritually impure through the ritual impurity imparted to a seat upon which a zav sits, as they can each be used to patch a saddle or saddlecloth. Since they are all suitable for the same use, they join together with regard to the halakhot of ritual impurity. As we learned in a mishna: In the case of one who trims and processes a piece of any of the above-mentioned materials measuring one handbreadth by one handbreadth, that piece is capable of becoming ritually impure. There is a certain halakha for which each of the different materials has the same measure; they therefore join together in other areas as well.
טֶפַח עַל טֶפַח לְמַאי חֲזֵי? וְאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי יַנַּאי: הוֹאִיל וְרָאוּי (לִיטְּלוֹ) עַל גַּבֵּי הַחֲמוֹר.
The Gemara asks: For what use is a cloth that is one handbreadth by one handbreadth fit? After all, a rag that has no use does not contract ritual impurity. Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said in the name of Rabbi Yannai: Since it is suitable for use as a patch on a donkey’s saddlecloth, it is capable of contracting ritual impurity. This ends the discussion of the exchange between Rabba and the Sages of the school of Rav.
בְּסוּרָא אָמְרִי לְהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא בְּהַאי לִישָּׁנָא. בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא מַתְנוּ: אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: סְכָךְ פָּסוּל בָּאֶמְצַע — פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבָּעָה. מִן הַצַּד — פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת. וְרַב אָמַר: בֵּין מִן הַצַּד בֵּין בָּאֶמְצַע — בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת.
The Gemara notes: In Sura, they stated this halakha in that language cited above. In Neharde’a, however, they taught it as follows: Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: Unfit roofing in the center of the sukka renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four handbreadths of unfit roofing. Along the side of the sukka, it renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing. And Rav said: Both along the side and in the center, it renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing.
תְּנַן: נָתַן עָלֶיהָ נֶסֶר שֶׁהוּא רָחָב אַרְבָּעָה טְפָחִים — כְּשֵׁרָה. בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרַב דְּאָמַר בֵּין בָּאֶמְצַע בֵּין מִן הַצַּד בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, מִשּׁוּם הָכִי כְּשֵׁרָה. אֶלָּא לִשְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמַר בָּאֶמְצַע בְּאַרְבָּעָה — אַמַּאי כְּשֵׁרָה? הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן — מִן הַצַּד.
We learned in a mishna: If one placed a board that is four handbreadths wide atop the sukka, the sukka is fit. And the Gemara asks: Granted, according to Rav, who said that both along the side and in the center, a sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing, it is due to that reason that the sukka is fit. However, according to Shmuel, who said that in the center of the sukka, the sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four handbreadths of unfit roofing, why is the sukka fit? The Gemara answers: With what are we dealing here? It is with a case where he placed the beam along the side; but had he placed it in the center, then according to Shmuel the sukka would indeed be unfit.
תָּא שְׁמַע: שְׁנֵי סְדִינִין — מִצְטָרְפִין. שְׁנֵי נְסָרִים — אֵין מִצְטָרְפִין. רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: נְסָרִים כִּסְדִינִין.
The Gemara cites a proof with regard to Rav’s opinion. Come and hear: Two sheets placed over the roofing of the sukka join together to render the sukka unfit. However, two boards placed on the sukka do not combine to render the sukka unfit. Rabbi Meir says: Even boards have the same legal status as sheets, and they combine to render the sukka unfit.
בִּשְׁלָמָא לְהָךְ לִישָּׁנָא דְּאָמַר רַב בֵּין בָּאֶמְצַע בֵּין מִן הַצַּד בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, מַאי ״מִצְטָרְפִין״ — מִצְטָרְפִין לְאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת. אֶלָּא לְהָךְ לִישָּׁנָא דְּאָמַר רַב בָּאֶמְצַע בְּאַרְבָּעָה, הֵיכִי דָּמֵי? אִי דְּאִית בְּהוּ אַרְבָּעָה, לְמָה לְהוּ אִצְטְרוֹפֵי? אִי דְּלֵית בְּהוּ אַרְבָּעָה, קַנְיָא בְּעָלְמָא נִינְהוּ?
The Gemara clarifies: Granted, according to that version from Neharde’a that Rav said: Both along the side and in the center, a sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing, what is the meaning of join together? It means that the two unfit objects join together to comprise four cubits. However, according to this version from Sura, in which Rav said: A sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four handbreadths of unfit roofing in the center, what are the circumstances? If each of the boards has four handbreadths in its width, why must they join together to render the sukka unfit? If each board is four handbreadths wide, each is capable of rendering the sukka unfit on its own, and if each of the boards does not have four handbreadths in its width, why would Rabbi Meir prohibit their use; they are merely reeds?
לְעוֹלָם דְּאִית בְּהוּ אַרְבָּעָה, וּמַאי ״מִצְטָרְפִין״ — מִצְטָרְפִין לְאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת מִן הַצַּד.
The Gemara answers: Actually, it is a case where each of the boards has four handbreadths in its width, and what is the meaning of join together? It means they join together to constitute four cubits along the side. This understanding fits both versions of Rav’s opinion.
תָּא שְׁמַע: סִכְּכָהּ בִּנְסָרִין שֶׁל אֶרֶז שֶׁיֵּשׁ בָּהֶן אַרְבָּעָה — דִּבְרֵי הַכֹּל פְּסוּלָה. אֵין בָּהֶן אַרְבָּעָה — רַבִּי מֵאִיר פּוֹסֵל וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַכְשִׁיר.
Come and hear proof from another baraita: If one roofed the entire sukka with cedar beams that have four handbreadths in their width, everyone agrees that the sukka is unfit. If they do not have four handbreadths in their width, Rabbi Meir deems the sukka unfit and Rabbi Yehuda deems it fit.
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A few years back, after reading Ilana Kurshan’s book, “If All The Seas Were Ink,” I began pondering the crazy, outlandish idea of beginning the Daf Yomi cycle. Beginning in December, 2019, a month before the previous cycle ended, I “auditioned” 30 different podcasts in 30 days, and ultimately chose to take the plunge with Hadran and Rabbanit Michelle. Such joy!
HUNTINGTON, United States
I started learning with rabbis. I needed to know more than the stories. My first teacher to show me “the way of the Talmud” as well as the stories was Samara Schwartz.
Michelle Farber started the new cycle 2 yrs ago and I jumped on for the ride.
I do not look back.
Houston, United States
Studying has changed my life view on הלכה and יהדות and time. It has taught me bonudaries of the human nature and honesty of our sages in their discourse to try and build a nation of caring people .
Kfar Saba, Israel
I went to day school in Toronto but really began to learn when I attended Brovenders back in the early 1980’s. Last year after talking to my sister who was learning Daf Yomi, inspired, I looked on the computer and the Hadran site came up. I have been listening to each days shiur in the morning as I work. I emphasis listening since I am not sitting with a Gamara. I listen while I work in my studio.
Tekoa, Israel
In my Shana bet at Migdal Oz I attended the Hadran siyum hash”as. Witnessing so many women so passionate about their Torah learning and connection to God, I knew I had to begin with the coming cycle. My wedding (June 24) was two weeks before the siyum of mesechet yoma so I went a little ahead and was able to make a speech and siyum at my kiseh kallah on my wedding day!
Givat Shmuel, Israel
In July, 2012 I wrote for Tablet about the first all women’s siyum at Matan in Jerusalem, with 100 women. At the time, I thought, I would like to start with the next cycle – listening to a podcast at different times of day makes it possible. It is incredible that after 10 years, so many women are so engaged!
Pittsburgh, United States
I started learning when my brother sent me the news clip of the celebration of the last Daf Yomi cycle. I was so floored to see so many women celebrating that I wanted to be a part of it. It has been an enriching experience studying a text in a language I don’t speak, using background knowledge that I don’t have. It is stretching my learning in unexpected ways, bringing me joy and satisfaction.
Warwick, Rhode Island, United States
After experiences over the years of asking to join gemara shiurim for men and either being refused by the maggid shiur or being the only women there, sometimes behind a mechitza, I found out about Hadran sometime during the tail end of Masechet Shabbat, I think. Life has been much better since then.
London, United Kingdom
I decided to give daf yomi a try when I heard about the siyum hashas in 2020. Once the pandemic hit, the daily commitment gave my days some much-needed structure. There have been times when I’ve felt like quitting- especially when encountering very technical details in the text. But then I tell myself, “Look how much you’ve done. You can’t stop now!” So I keep going & my Koren bookshelf grows…
Huntington, United States
Years ago, I attended the local Siyum HaShas with my high school class. It was inspiring! Through that cycle and the next one, I studied masekhtot on my own and then did “daf yomi practice.” The amazing Hadran Siyum HaShas event firmed my resolve to “really do” Daf Yomi this time. It has become a family goal. We’ve supported each other through challenges, and now we’re at the Siyum of Seder Moed!
Jerusalem, Israel
I tried Daf Yomi in the middle of the last cycle after realizing I could listen to Michelle’s shiurim online. It lasted all of 2 days! Then the new cycle started just days before my father’s first yahrzeit and my youngest daughter’s bat mitzvah. It seemed the right time for a new beginning. My family, friends, colleagues are immensely supportive!
Zichron Yaakov, Israel
When I began learning Daf Yomi at the beginning of the current cycle, I was preparing for an upcoming surgery and thought that learning the Daf would be something positive I could do each day during my recovery, even if I accomplished nothing else. I had no idea what a lifeline learning the Daf would turn out to be in so many ways.
Lexington, MA, United States
Blacksburg, United States
What a great experience to learn with Rabbanit Michelle Farber. I began with this cycle in January 2020 and have been comforted by the consistency and energy of this process throughout the isolation period of Covid. Week by week, I feel like I am exploring a treasure chest with sparkling gems and puzzling antiquities. The hunt is exhilarating.
Pennsylvania, United States
I started my journey on the day I realized that the Siyum was happening in Yerushalayim and I was missing out. What? I told myself. How could I have not known about this? How can I have missed out on this opportunity? I decided that moment, I would start Daf Yomi and Nach Yomi the very next day. I am so grateful to Hadran. I am changed forever because I learn Gemara with women. Thank you.
Mitspe, Israel
Mamaroneck, NY, United States
3 years ago, I joined Rabbanit Michelle to organize the unprecedented Siyum HaShas event in Jerusalem for thousands of women. The whole experience was so inspiring that I decided then to start learning the daf and see how I would go…. and I’m still at it. I often listen to the Daf on my bike in mornings, surrounded by both the external & the internal beauty of Eretz Yisrael & Am Yisrael!
Raanana, Israel
I began my journey with Rabbanit Michelle more than five years ago. My friend came up with a great idea for about 15 of us to learn the daf and one of us would summarize weekly what we learned.
It was fun but after 2-3 months people began to leave. I have continued. Since the cycle began Again I have joined the Teaneck women.. I find it most rewarding in so many ways. Thank you
New Jersey, United States
I started learning at the beginning of this Daf Yomi cycle because I heard a lot about the previous cycle coming to an end and thought it would be a good thing to start doing. My husband had already bought several of the Koren Talmud Bavli books and they were just sitting on the shelf, not being used, so here was an opportunity to start using them and find out exactly what was in them. Loving it!
Borehamwood, United Kingdom
I learned Mishnayot more than twenty years ago and started with Gemara much later in life. Although I never managed to learn Daf Yomi consistently, I am learning since some years Gemara in depth and with much joy. Since last year I am studying at the International Halakha Scholars Program at the WIHL. I often listen to Rabbanit Farbers Gemara shiurim to understand better a specific sugyiah. I am grateful for the help and inspiration!
Berlin, Germany
Sukkah 17
מַתְנִי׳ הִרְחִיק אֶת הַסִּיכּוּךְ מִן הַדְּפָנוֹת שְׁלֹשָׁה טְפָחִים — פְּסוּלָה.
MISHNA: If one distanced the roofing from the walls of the sukka at a distance of three handbreadths the sukka is unfit, because three handbreadths of open space, even adjacent to the walls, render the sukka unfit.
בַּיִת שֶׁנִּפְחַת וְסִיכֵּךְ עַל גַּבָּיו — אִם יֵשׁ מִן הַכּוֹתֶל לַסִּיכּוּךְ אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, פְּסוּלָה.
In the case of a house that was breached, creating a hole in the middle of the roof, and one roofed over the breach, if from the wall to the roofing there are four or more cubits of the remaining original roof, it is an unfit sukka. If the roofing is less than four cubits from the wall, the sukka is fit, based on the principle of curved wall; the remaining intact ceiling is considered an extension of the vertical wall.
וְכֵן חָצֵר שֶׁהִיא מוּקֶּפֶת אַכְסַדְרָה, סוּכָּה גְּדוֹלָה שֶׁהִקִּיפוּהָ בְּדָבָר שֶׁאֵין מְסַכְּכִין בּוֹ — אִם יֵשׁ תַּחְתָּיו אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, פְּסוּלָה.
And likewise, in the case of a courtyard that is surrounded on three sides by a portico, which has a roof but no walls, if one placed roofing over the courtyard between the different sides of the portico and the roof of the portico is four cubits wide, the sukka is unfit. Similarly, a large sukka that was surrounded at the edge of its roofing with material with which one may not roof a sukka, e.g., vessels susceptible to ritual impurity, if there are four cubits beneath the unfit roofing, the sukka is unfit. The principle of curved wall does not apply to unfit roofing that measures four cubits or more.
גְּמָ׳ כׇּל הָנֵי לְמָה לִי? צְרִיכָא: דְּאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן בַּיִת שֶׁנִּפְחַת — מִשּׁוּם דְּהָנֵי מְחִיצוֹת לְבַיִת עֲבִידָן. אֲבָל חָצֵר הַמּוּקֶּפֶת אַכְסַדְרָה, דִּמְחִיצוֹת לָאו לְאַכְסַדְרָה עֲבִידִי — אֵימָא לָא, צְרִיכָא.
GEMARA: The Gemara asks: Why do I need all these cases based on the identical principle of curved wall? The Gemara explains: It is necessary to cite all the cases, as, if the mishna had taught us only the case of the house that was breached, I would have said that the principle of curved wall applies there because those walls were established for the house. Therefore, when the house is transformed into a sukka, the walls continue to serve their original function as walls of the sukka. However, with regard to a courtyard surrounded on each of the three sides by a portico, where its walls were established not for the portico but for the house that opens into the portico, and they happen to serve as the interior walls of the portico, I could say no, they are not considered as connected to the roofing at all. Consequently, it is necessary for the mishna to cite that case as well.
וְאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן הָנֵי תַּרְתֵּי, מִשּׁוּם דִּסְכָכָן סְכָךְ כָּשֵׁר הוּא, אֲבָל סוּכָּה גְּדוֹלָה שֶׁהִקִּיפוּהָ בְּדָבָר שֶׁאֵין מְסַכְּכִין בּוֹ, דִּסְכָכָהּ סְכָךְ פָּסוּל הוּא — אֵימָא לָא, צְרִיכָא.
And if the mishna taught us only these two cases, one would have said that the principle of curved wall can apply because all of their roofing is fit roofing, and the preexisting roof of the house and the portico is unfit only due to the principle: Prepare it, and not from that which has already been prepared. However, here, in the case of a large sukka that was surrounded at the edge of its roofing with material with which one may not roof a sukka, where some of its roofing is unfit and the fit roofing does not actually reach the wall, one could say no, the roofing is unfit. Therefore, it is necessary to state that case as well.
אָמַר רַבָּה: אַשְׁכַּחְתִּינְהוּ לְרַבָּנַן דְּבֵי רַב דְּיָתְבִי וְקָאָמְרִי: אֲוִיר פּוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה, סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבָּעָה.
§ Rabba said: I found the Sages of the school of Rav, who were sitting and saying in the name of Rav: Space without roofing renders the sukka unfit with a measure of three handbreadths of space. However, unfit roofing renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four handbreadths.
וְאָמֵינָא לְהוּ אֲנָא: אֲוִיר דְּפוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה מְנָא לְכוּ — דִּתְנַן: הִרְחִיק אֶת הַסִּיכּוּךְ מִן הַדְּפָנוֹת שְׁלֹשָׁה טְפָחִים — פְּסוּלָה. סְכָךְ פָּסוּל נָמֵי לָא לִיפְסֹיל אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, דִּתְנַן: בַּיִת שֶׁנִּפְחַת וְסִיכֵּךְ עַל גַּבָּיו, אִם יֵשׁ בֵּין הַסִּיכּוּךְ לַכּוֹתֶל אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת — פְּסוּלָה!
And I said to them: From where do you derive that space renders the sukka unfit when it amounts to three handbreadths? It is as we learned in the mishna: If one distanced the roofing from the walls of the sukka at a distance of three handbreadths, the sukka is unfit. If, indeed, this mishna is the source of the halakha, also in the case of unfit roofing, let it render the sukka unfit only if the roofing measures four cubits, as we learned in the same mishna: With regard to a house that was breached and one roofed over the breach, if from the wall to the roofing there is four or more cubits of the remaining original roof, the sukka is unfit.
וַאֲמַרוּ לִי: בַּר מִינַּהּ דְּהַהִיא, דְּרַב וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ: מִשּׁוּם דּוֹפֶן עֲקוּמָּה נָגְעוּ בָּהּ.
And they said to me: Cite proof from the mishna, apart from this case, as both Rav and Shmuel said that in this case, the Sages in the mishna touched upon the principle of curved wall. In other words, the fact that this house is a fit sukka is unrelated to the minimum measure of unfit roofing. It is fit due to the principle of curved wall.
וְאָמֵינָא לְהוּ אֲנָא: מָה אִילּוּ אִיכָּא סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פָּחוֹת מֵאַרְבָּעָה וַאֲוִיר פָּחוֹת מִשְּׁלֹשָׁה מַאי? כְּשֵׁרָה. מַלְּיֵיהּ בְּשַׁפּוּדִין מַאי — פְּסוּלָה, וְלֹא יְהֵא אֲוִיר הַפּוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה כִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל הַפּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבָּעָה!
And I said to them: What if there is a sukka with less than four handbreadths of unfit roofing and an adjacent space of less than three handbreadths; what would be the status of the sukka? The sukka would be fit, since it lacks the minimum measure of both space and unfit roofing that renders a sukka unfit. If one then filled the space with skewers, what would be the status of the sukka? It would be unfit, as there would be more than four handbreadths of unfit roofing. But shouldn’t space, which is more stringent, as it renders the sukka unfit with only three handbreadths, be as stringent as unfit roofing, which renders the sukka unfit only with four handbreadths of unfit roofing?
וַאֲמַרוּ לִי: אִי הָכִי, לְדִידָךְ נָמֵי דְּאָמְרַתְּ סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, מָה אִילּוּ אִיכָּא סְכָךְ פָּסוּל פָּחוֹת מֵאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת וַאֲוִיר פָּחוֹת מִשְּׁלֹשָׁה, מַאי? כְּשֵׁרָה. מַלְּיֵיהּ בְּשַׁפּוּדִין מַאי — פְּסוּלָה. לֹא יְהֵא אֲוִיר הַפּוֹסֵל בִּשְׁלֹשָׁה כִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל הַפּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת!
And they said to me: If so, according to you, who said that unfit roofing renders a sukka unfit only with four cubits of unfit roofing, the same question arises. Just as, if there were a sukka with less than four cubits of unfit roofing and an adjacent space measuring less than three handbreadths, what would be its status? It would be fit. If one then filled the space with skewers, what would be its status? It would be unfit. Here too, the question arises: Shouldn’t space, which is more stringent, as it renders the sukka unfit with only three handbreadths of space, be as stringent as unfit roofing, which renders the sukka unfit with only four cubits of unfit roofing?
וְאָמֵינָא לְהוּ אֲנָא: הַאי מַאי? בִּשְׁלָמָא לְדִידִי דְּאָמֵינָא אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת —
And I said to them: What is this comparison? Granted, according to my opinion, that I say that the measure of unfit roofing that renders a sukka unfit is four cubits,
מִשּׁוּם שִׁיעוּרָא וְלָאו שִׁיעוּרָא הוּא. הַאי לָאו שִׁיעוּרָא הוּא, כֵּיוָן דְּלָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ לַהֲדָדֵי — לָא מִצְטָרְפִי.
the status of the sukka is determined on the basis of whether it is the requisite measure or it is not the requisite measure. In other words, the difference between unfit roofing that is four cubits and unfit roofing that is less is a unique halakha, completely unrelated to the principle of curved wall. Similarly, it is a unique halakha that three handbreadths of space in a roof render a sukka unfit. In this case, there is not the requisite measure according to either halakha; and since their measures are not equal to each other, they do not combine to render the sukka unfit. The sukka is rendered unfit only when the measure of unfit roofing reaches four cubits.
אֶלָּא לְדִידְכוּ דְּאָמְרִיתוּ שִׁיעוּר מִשּׁוּם הַפְלָגָה — מָה לִי אִיתַּפְלַג בִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל, מָה לִי אִתַּפְלַג בִּסְכָךְ פָּסוּל וַאֲוִיר.
However, according to you, who say that the measure of four handbreadths for unfit roofing is due to the distance between the wall and the fit roofing, which renders the sukka unfit, what is the difference to me if it was distanced due to unfit roofing, and what is the difference to me if it was distanced due to a combination of unfit roofing and space? In either case, the distance between the roofing and the wall should prevent connecting the roofing to the wall. This concludes Rabba’s account of his exchange with the Sages of the school of Rav.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וּלְמָר נָמֵי, נְהִי דְּלָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ בְּסוּכָּה גְּדוֹלָה, בְּסוּכָּה קְטַנָּה מִי לָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ?
Abaye said to Rabba: And according to the Master, too, although their measures are not equal in a large sukka, which is larger than four cubits, in a small sukka aren’t their measures equal? In a minimally sized sukka, seven by seven handbreadths, three handbreadths of unfit roofing must render the sukka unfit. If the measure of fitness were to remain up to four handbreadths, that would mean that a sukka with a majority of unfit roofing is fit, which is unreasonable. Therefore, Rabba’s contention that the measures of unfit roofing and space are totally different is not precise.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָתָם לָאו מִשּׁוּם דְּשָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ לַהֲדָדֵי הוּא, אֶלָּא מִשּׁוּם דְּלֵיתֵיהּ לְשִׁיעוּרָא דְסוּכָּה הוּא.
Rabba said to him: There, in the case of the minimally-sized sukka, the fact that the sukka is unfit is not due to the fact that their measures are equal. Rather, it is due to the fact that in a case where the unfit roofing is three handbreadths, the sukka lacks the minimum required measure of fit roofing. In other words, it is not the amount of unfit roofing that creates the problem; rather, it is that the fit area of the sukka is too small.
וְכׇל הֵיכָא דְּלָא שָׁווּ שִׁיעוּרַיְיהוּ לַהֲדָדֵי לָא מִצְטָרְפִי? וְהָתְנַן: הַבֶּגֶד שְׁלֹשָׁה עַל שְׁלֹשָׁה, הַשַּׂק אַרְבָּעָה עַל אַרְבָּעָה, הָעוֹר חֲמִשָּׁה עַל חֲמִשָּׁה, מַפָּץ שִׁשָּׁה עַל שִׁשָּׁה.
Rabba maintains that since the two requisite measures of unfitness are not equal, they do not join together. The Gemara asks: And anywhere that their measures are not equal, do they not combine to constitute the requisite measure? But didn’t we learn in the mishna: The garment must be at least three by three handbreadths in order to become a primary source of ritual impurity by means of ritual impurity imparted by treading of a zav; and the sackcloth made from goats’ hair must be at least four by four handbreadths; and the animal hide must be five by five; and a mat must be six by six?
וְתָנֵי עֲלַהּ: הַבֶּגֶד וְהַשַּׂק, הַשַּׂק וְהָעוֹר, הָעוֹר וְהַמַּפָּץ — מִצְטָרְפִין זֶה עִם זֶה.
And a baraita is taught concerning the mishna: The garment and the sackcloth, the sackcloth and the hide, and the hide and the mat join together with one another. If one attaches a piece of material that has a smaller, more stringent measure for ritual impurity to a piece of material that has a larger, more lenient measure, the combined cloth is susceptible to contract ritual impurity if together they compose the larger measure. Apparently, two items whose measures are not equal combine to compose the more lenient measure.
הָתָם כִּדְקָתָנֵי טַעְמָא, אָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן: מָה טַעַם — הוֹאִיל וְרָאוּי לְטַמֵּא מוֹשָׁב. כְּדִתְנַן: הַמְקַצֵּעַ מִכּוּלָּן טֶפַח עַל טֶפַח — טָמֵא.
The Gemara rejects this. There, it is as the reason is taught that Rabbi Shimon said: What is the reason that these different fabrics combine? They combine since all the component materials are fit to become ritually impure through the ritual impurity imparted to a seat upon which a zav sits, as they can each be used to patch a saddle or saddlecloth. Since they are all suitable for the same use, they join together with regard to the halakhot of ritual impurity. As we learned in a mishna: In the case of one who trims and processes a piece of any of the above-mentioned materials measuring one handbreadth by one handbreadth, that piece is capable of becoming ritually impure. There is a certain halakha for which each of the different materials has the same measure; they therefore join together in other areas as well.
טֶפַח עַל טֶפַח לְמַאי חֲזֵי? וְאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי יַנַּאי: הוֹאִיל וְרָאוּי (לִיטְּלוֹ) עַל גַּבֵּי הַחֲמוֹר.
The Gemara asks: For what use is a cloth that is one handbreadth by one handbreadth fit? After all, a rag that has no use does not contract ritual impurity. Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said in the name of Rabbi Yannai: Since it is suitable for use as a patch on a donkey’s saddlecloth, it is capable of contracting ritual impurity. This ends the discussion of the exchange between Rabba and the Sages of the school of Rav.
בְּסוּרָא אָמְרִי לְהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא בְּהַאי לִישָּׁנָא. בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא מַתְנוּ: אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: סְכָךְ פָּסוּל בָּאֶמְצַע — פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבָּעָה. מִן הַצַּד — פּוֹסֵל בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת. וְרַב אָמַר: בֵּין מִן הַצַּד בֵּין בָּאֶמְצַע — בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת.
The Gemara notes: In Sura, they stated this halakha in that language cited above. In Neharde’a, however, they taught it as follows: Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: Unfit roofing in the center of the sukka renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four handbreadths of unfit roofing. Along the side of the sukka, it renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing. And Rav said: Both along the side and in the center, it renders the sukka unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing.
תְּנַן: נָתַן עָלֶיהָ נֶסֶר שֶׁהוּא רָחָב אַרְבָּעָה טְפָחִים — כְּשֵׁרָה. בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרַב דְּאָמַר בֵּין בָּאֶמְצַע בֵּין מִן הַצַּד בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, מִשּׁוּם הָכִי כְּשֵׁרָה. אֶלָּא לִשְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמַר בָּאֶמְצַע בְּאַרְבָּעָה — אַמַּאי כְּשֵׁרָה? הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן — מִן הַצַּד.
We learned in a mishna: If one placed a board that is four handbreadths wide atop the sukka, the sukka is fit. And the Gemara asks: Granted, according to Rav, who said that both along the side and in the center, a sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing, it is due to that reason that the sukka is fit. However, according to Shmuel, who said that in the center of the sukka, the sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four handbreadths of unfit roofing, why is the sukka fit? The Gemara answers: With what are we dealing here? It is with a case where he placed the beam along the side; but had he placed it in the center, then according to Shmuel the sukka would indeed be unfit.
תָּא שְׁמַע: שְׁנֵי סְדִינִין — מִצְטָרְפִין. שְׁנֵי נְסָרִים — אֵין מִצְטָרְפִין. רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: נְסָרִים כִּסְדִינִין.
The Gemara cites a proof with regard to Rav’s opinion. Come and hear: Two sheets placed over the roofing of the sukka join together to render the sukka unfit. However, two boards placed on the sukka do not combine to render the sukka unfit. Rabbi Meir says: Even boards have the same legal status as sheets, and they combine to render the sukka unfit.
בִּשְׁלָמָא לְהָךְ לִישָּׁנָא דְּאָמַר רַב בֵּין בָּאֶמְצַע בֵּין מִן הַצַּד בְּאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת, מַאי ״מִצְטָרְפִין״ — מִצְטָרְפִין לְאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת. אֶלָּא לְהָךְ לִישָּׁנָא דְּאָמַר רַב בָּאֶמְצַע בְּאַרְבָּעָה, הֵיכִי דָּמֵי? אִי דְּאִית בְּהוּ אַרְבָּעָה, לְמָה לְהוּ אִצְטְרוֹפֵי? אִי דְּלֵית בְּהוּ אַרְבָּעָה, קַנְיָא בְּעָלְמָא נִינְהוּ?
The Gemara clarifies: Granted, according to that version from Neharde’a that Rav said: Both along the side and in the center, a sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four cubits of unfit roofing, what is the meaning of join together? It means that the two unfit objects join together to comprise four cubits. However, according to this version from Sura, in which Rav said: A sukka is rendered unfit with a measure of four handbreadths of unfit roofing in the center, what are the circumstances? If each of the boards has four handbreadths in its width, why must they join together to render the sukka unfit? If each board is four handbreadths wide, each is capable of rendering the sukka unfit on its own, and if each of the boards does not have four handbreadths in its width, why would Rabbi Meir prohibit their use; they are merely reeds?
לְעוֹלָם דְּאִית בְּהוּ אַרְבָּעָה, וּמַאי ״מִצְטָרְפִין״ — מִצְטָרְפִין לְאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת מִן הַצַּד.
The Gemara answers: Actually, it is a case where each of the boards has four handbreadths in its width, and what is the meaning of join together? It means they join together to constitute four cubits along the side. This understanding fits both versions of Rav’s opinion.
תָּא שְׁמַע: סִכְּכָהּ בִּנְסָרִין שֶׁל אֶרֶז שֶׁיֵּשׁ בָּהֶן אַרְבָּעָה — דִּבְרֵי הַכֹּל פְּסוּלָה. אֵין בָּהֶן אַרְבָּעָה — רַבִּי מֵאִיר פּוֹסֵל וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַכְשִׁיר.
Come and hear proof from another baraita: If one roofed the entire sukka with cedar beams that have four handbreadths in their width, everyone agrees that the sukka is unfit. If they do not have four handbreadths in their width, Rabbi Meir deems the sukka unfit and Rabbi Yehuda deems it fit.
