Rabba asks if defects that cause an animal to be a treifa would also cause the etrog to be tannaitic source, but without success. What is a Cushi etrog and in which case would it be invalid and in which case would it be valid? The gemara compares a dispute in our mishna regarding the unripe etrog with a dispute regarding tithing an unripe etrog. Will those disqualify it for Sukkot, also say that they are exempt from tithing and vice-versa, or not? The gemara brings two different versions regarding the law that Rav said about an etrog chewed by mice – according to one version, he says it is invalid, and according to the other, he says it is kosher. Both versions compare the case to Rabbi Hanina who ate an etrog and used it for the mitzva. The opinions of Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda regarding the minimum size of etrog are consistent with their opinions in another controversy regarding the carrying of stones for use in the bathroom on Shabbat. According to Rabbi Yehuda, one can bind a lulav only with something of the same type. So how did the people of Jerusalem bind their lulav’s with gold bands? Rava says that according to Rabbi Yehuda, one can also bind the lulav with other parts of the palm tree, such as the fibers or the trunk.
This week’s learning is sponsored by Michelle Winer for a refuah shelaima for Bella Rachel bat Malka Enya and Binyamin Yisrael ben Malka Enya.
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This week’s learning is sponsored by Michelle Winer for a refuah shelaima for Bella Rachel bat Malka Enya and Binyamin Yisrael ben Malka Enya.
Sukkah 36
הָא בְּכוּלַּהּ, הָא בְּמִקְצָתַהּ.
this mishna, where it states that if the etrog was peeled it is unfit, is in a case where all of it was peeled. That statement of Rava that if it was peeled it is fit is in a case where only part of it was peeled.
נִסְדַּק, נִיקַּב. תָּנֵי עוּלָּא בַּר חֲנִינָא: נִיקַּב נֶקֶב מְפוּלָּשׁ — בְּמַשֶּׁהוּ, וְשֶׁאֵינוֹ מְפוּלָּשׁ — בִּכְאִיסָּר.
The mishna continues discussing the halakha of an etrog that was split or pierced. Ulla bar Ḥanina taught: An etrog that was pierced with a hole that completely goes through its body is unfit with any size hole. If the hole does not completely go through the etrog, it is unfit only with a hole the size of an issar coin.
בָּעֵי רָבָא: נוֹלְדוּ בָּאֶתְרוֹג סִימָנֵי טְרֵפָה, מַהוּ? מַאי קָמִיבַּעְיָא לֵיהּ? אִי נִקְלַף — תְּנֵינָא! אִי נִסְדַּק — תְּנֵינָא! אִי נִיקַּב — תְּנֵינָא!
Rava raised a dilemma: If signs of a tereifa developed in the etrog, what is its halakhic status? The Gemara clarifies: What is the dilemma that he is raising? There are similarities between the halakhot of the etrog in the mishna and some of the halakhot of a tereifa, a bird or animal with a condition that will lead to its death within a year. If it is the case where the etrog was peeled, we already learned that case. If it is the case where the etrog was split, we learned that case as well. And if it is the case where the etrog was pierced, we learned that too. After ruling out those defects, the question remains: With regard to what is Rava’s dilemma?
כִּי קָא מִיבַּעְיָא לֵיהּ כִּדְעוּלָּא אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: רֵיאָה שֶׁנִּשְׁפְּכָה כְּקִיתוֹן — כְּשֵׁרָה. וְאָמַר רָבָא: וְהוּא דְּקָיְימִי סִימְפּוֹנַהָא. הָא לָא קָיְימִי סִימְפּוֹנַהָא — טְרֵפָה. הָכָא מַאי? דִּלְמָא הָתָם הוּא דְּלָא שָׁלֵיט בַּהּ אַוֵּירָא, הֲדַר בָּרְיָא, אֲבָל הָכָא דְּשָׁלֵיט בַּהּ אַוֵּירָא — סָרוֹחֵי מַסְרְחָא, אוֹ דִלְמָא לָא שְׁנָא?
The Gemara answers: When he raises the dilemma, it is with regard to a case like that which Ulla said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: A lung whose contents can be poured like a pitcher, i.e., whose tissue dissolved to the point of liquefaction, is not a sign of tereifa, and the animal is kosher. And Rava said: And that is the halakha only where the bronchia are intact. However, if the bronchia are not intact, it is a sign of tereifa. The dilemma here is with regard to a comparable situation in an etrog, i.e., an etrog that liquefied from within: What is its halakhic status? Perhaps it is there, in the case of the lung, where the air does not affect it since it is completely enclosed in the body, that the lungs can recover, and that is why it is not a tereifa. However, here, in the case of the etrog, where the air affects it, it inevitably decays and spoils and therefore it is a tereifa. Or, perhaps the case of the etrog is no different.
תָּא שְׁמַע: אֶתְרוֹג תָּפוּחַ סָרוּחַ, כָּבוּשׁ, שָׁלוּק, כּוּשִׁי, לָבָן, וּמְנוּמָּר — פָּסוּל. אֶתְרוֹג כְּכַדּוּר — פָּסוּל, וְיֵשׁ אוֹמְרִים: אַף הַתְּיוֹם. אֶתְרוֹג הַבּוֹסֶר — רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא פּוֹסֵל, וַחֲכָמִים מַכְשִׁירִין. גִּדְּלוֹ בִּדְפוּס וַעֲשָׂאוֹ כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת — פָּסוּל.
The Gemara answers: Come and hear a resolution to this dilemma based on that which was taught in a baraita. An etrog that is tafuaḥ, saruaḥ, pickled, boiled, a black Cushite etrog, a white etrog, or a speckled etrog is unfit. An etrog shaped like a ball is unfit, and some say even a twin, conjoined, etrog is unfit. With regard to an etrog that is unripe, Rabbi Akiva deems it unfit, and the Rabbis deem it fit. If he grew the etrog in a mold and shaped it to appear like a different entity, and it is no longer shaped like an etrog, it is unfit.
קָתָנֵי מִיהַת תָּפוּחַ סָרוּחַ, מַאי לָאו: תָּפוּחַ מִבַּחוּץ, וְסָרוּחַ מִבִּפְנִים! לָא, אִידִי וְאִידִי מִבַּחוּץ, וְלָא קַשְׁיָא: הָא דִּתְפַח אַף עַל גַּב דְּלָא סְרַח, הָא דִּסְרַח אַף עַל גַּב דְּלָא תְּפַח.
In any event, it teaches that an etrog that is tafuaḥ or saruaḥ is unfit. What, is it not that tafuaḥ means that it decayed on the outside and saruaḥ means that it decayed on the inside? The Gemara rejects this explanation: No, both this and that are referring to decay on the outside. And this apparent redundancy is not difficult, as this case, tafuaḥ, is where it swelled even though it did not decay, and that case, saruaḥ, is where it decayed even though it did not swell.
אָמַר מָר: אֶתְרוֹג כּוּשִׁי — פָּסוּל. וְהָתַנְיָא: כּוּשִׁי כָּשֵׁר, דּוֹמֶה לְכוּשִׁי — פָּסוּל! אֲמַר אַבָּיֵי: כִּי תְּנַן נָמֵי מַתְנִיתִין, דּוֹמֶה לְכוּשִׁי תְּנַן. רָבָא אָמַר: לָא קַשְׁיָא הָא לַן, וְהָא לְהוּ.
The Master said in the baraita cited above: A Cushite etrog is unfit. The Gemara asks: But isn’t it taught in a different baraita: A Cushite etrog is fit, but an etrog that is similar to a Cushite etrog is unfit. Abaye said: When we learned this halakha in the mishna that it is unfit, too, we learned it not in reference to an actual Cushite etrog, but rather in reference to one that is similar to a Cushite etrog. Rava said: Actually, the mishna is referring to a Cushite etrog, and nevertheless, it is not difficult; this, the halakha that it is unfit, is for us in Babylonia because our etrogim are typically light, and the dark Cushite etrogim are conspicuously different. And that, the halakha that it is fit, is for them in Eretz Yisrael, whose etrogim are typically dark. In Eretz Yisrael the dark Cushite etrog is not conspicuously different, and it is therefore fit.
אֶתְרוֹג הַבּוֹסֶר — רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא פּוֹסֵל וַחֲכָמִים מַכְשִׁירִין. אָמַר רַבָּה: רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא וְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אָמְרוּ דָּבָר אֶחָד. רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא — הָא דַּאֲמַרַן. רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן מַאי הִיא — (דְּתַנְיָא:) רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן פּוֹטֵר אֶת הָאֶתְרוֹגִים בְּקוֹטְנָן.
It was also taught in the baraita: With regard to an unripe etrog, Rabbi Akiva deems it unfit, and the Rabbis deem it fit. Rabba said: Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Shimon said one and the same statement. The Gemara elaborates: The statement of Rabbi Akiva is that which we said; an unripe etrog is unfit. Rabbi Shimon, what is his statement? It is as it is taught in a baraita: Rabbi Shimon exempts etrogim from the requirement to be tithed while in their small state. Apparently, Rabbi Shimon, too, holds that an unripe etrog is not a fruit.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: דִּלְמָא לָא הִיא, עַד כָּאן לָא קָאָמַר רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא הָכָא, דְּבָעֵינַן ״הָדָר״ וְלֵיכָּא, אֲבָל הָתָם — כְּרַבָּנַן סְבִירָא לֵיהּ.
Abaye said to Rabba: Perhaps that is not the case and they do not share the same opinion. Rabbi Akiva stated his opinion only here, with regard to an unripe etrog, as we require beauty [hadar] in an etrog and there is none in the case of an unripe etrog due to its color or small size; however, there, with regard to tithes, perhaps he holds in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis that one is obligated to tithe even a half-ripe etrog.
אִי נָמֵי, עַד כָּאן לָא קָאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן הָתָם, אֶלָּא דִּכְתִיב: ״עַשֵּׂר תְּעַשֵּׂר אֵת כׇּל תְּבוּאַת זַרְעֶךָ״, כְּדֶרֶךְ שֶׁבְּנֵי אָדָם מוֹצִיאִין לִזְרִיעָה. אֲבָל הָכָא, כְּרַבָּנַן סְבִירָא לֵיהּ.
Alternatively, Rabbi Shimon stated his opinion only there with regard to the exemption of an unripe etrog from tithes, as it is written: “You shall surely tithe all the produce of your planting, which is brought forth in the field year by year” (Deuteronomy 14:22). From that verse it is derived that the obligation to tithe applies only to produce that has developed to the point where it is typical for people to take it out to the field for sowing; one is not obligated to tithe unripe fruit that is not suitable for planting. However, perhaps here he holds in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis, who disagree with Rabbi Akiva and would deem an unripe etrog fit.
וְתוּ לָא מִידֵּי.
The Gemara notes: And there is nothing more to discuss here. Clearly, the opinions of Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Shimon do not necessarily coincide.
גִּדְּלוֹ בִּדְפוּס וַעֲשָׂאוֹ כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת — פָּסוּל. אָמַר רָבָא: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת, אֲבָל כִּבְרִיָּיתוֹ — כָּשֵׁר. פְּשִׁיטָא! כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת (תְּנַן)! לָא צְרִיכָא, דַּעֲבִידָא דַּפֵּי דַּפֵּי.
The baraita continues: If he grew the etrog in a mold and shaped it to appear like a different species, it is unfit. Rava said: The Sages taught that it is unfit only if he shaped it to appear like a different species; however, if he shaped the etrog so it still appears like its own species, it is fit. The Gemara asks: That is obvious; the phrase: Like a different species, is explicitly taught in the baraita. If it shaped like its own species, it is fit. The Gemara answers: No, Rava’s statement is necessary to deem fit an etrog that is shaped into the shape of many planks, i.e., pieces of wood attached to each other. Although its shape is not precisely that of a regular etrog, it sufficiently resembles a regular etrog and is fit.
אִיתְּמַר אֶתְרוֹג שֶׁנְּקָבוּהוּ עַכְבָּרִים, אָמַר רַב: אֵין זֶה הָדָר. אִינִי? וְהָא רַבִּי חֲנִינָא מְטַבֵּיל בֵּהּ וְנָפֵיק בֵּהּ! וּלְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא קַשְׁיָא מַתְנִיתִין!
§ It was stated that the amora’im disagree with regard to an etrog that mice pierced. Rav said: That is not beautiful. Is that so? But wouldn’t Rabbi Ḥanina dip his etrog, eat part of it, and fulfill his obligation with what remained of it? The Gemara asks: And for Rabbi Ḥanina, the mishna is difficult, as it states that an incomplete etrog is unfit.
בִּשְׁלָמָא מַתְנִיתִין לְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא לָא קַשְׁיָא: כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב רִאשׁוֹן, כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב שֵׁנִי. אֶלָּא לְרַב קַשְׁיָא! אָמַר לְךָ רַב: שָׁאנֵי עַכְבָּרִים דִּמְאִיסִי.
The Gemara explains: Granted, for Rabbi Ḥanina, the mishna is not difficult, as it can be explained that here, when the mishna prohibits one from using an incomplete etrog, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the first day of the festival of Sukkot, when a complete taking of the species is required; and there, when Rabbi Ḥanina’s conduct leads to the conclusion that an incomplete etrog is fit, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the second day of the Festival or thereafter. However, according to Rav, who said an etrog that was pierced by mice is unfit, Rabbi Ḥanina’s conduct is difficult, as the requirement of beauty applies on all seven days. The Gemara answers: This is not difficult, as Rav could have said to you: Mice are different, as they are repulsive. When mice pierce an etrog, what remains is antithetical to beauty. When a person bites an etrog, what remains can still be considered beautiful.
אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי, אָמַר רַב: זֶה הָדָר, דְּהָא רַבִּי חֲנִינָא מְטַבֵּיל בֵּהּ וְנָפֵיק בֵּהּ. וּלְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא קַשְׁיָא מַתְנִיתִין! לָא קַשְׁיָא: כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב רִאשׁוֹן, כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב שֵׁנִי.
§ Some say this exchange differently. Rav said with regard to an etrog that mice pierced: That is beautiful, as Rabbi Ḥanina would dip his etrog, eat part of it, and fulfill his obligation with what remained of it, indicating that an incomplete etrog is fit. The Gemara asks: And for Rabbi Ḥanina, the mishna is difficult, as it states that an incomplete etrog is unfit. The Gemara answers: The mishna is not difficult; here, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the first day of the festival of Sukkot; there, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the second day of the Festival or thereafter.
אֶתְרוֹג קָטָן וְכוּ׳. אָמַר רַפְרָם בַּר פָּפָּא: כְּמַחְלוֹקֶת כָּאן, כָּךְ מַחְלוֹקֶת בַּאֲבָנִים מְקוּרְזָלוֹת. דְּתַנְיָא: בְּשַׁבָּת שָׁלֹשׁ אֲבָנִים מְקוּרְזָלוֹת מוּתָּר לְהַכְנִיס לְבֵית הַכִּסֵּא, וְכַמָּה שִׁיעוּרָן? רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: כֶּאֱגוֹז, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: כְּבֵיצָה.
A dispute between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda is cited in a mishna with regard to the minimum measure of a small etrog. Rafram bar Pappa said: Like the dispute here, so is the dispute with regard to the matter of rounded stones, as it was taught in a baraita: On Shabbat three rounded stones may be taken into the bathroom in order to clean oneself with them. Although generally one may not move stones on Shabbat because they are set aside from use, the Sages permitted doing so in the interest of human dignity. However, they disagreed, with regard to the size of these stones. And what is their measure? Rabbi Meir says: A walnut-bulk; Rabbi Yehuda says: An egg-bulk. Clearly the rationales for these disputes are different; however, since the respective measures are identical, the analogy can serve as a mnemonic.
וּבַגָּדוֹל כְּדֵי שֶׁיֹּאחַז כּוּ׳. תַּנְיָא, אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי: מַעֲשֶׂה בְּרַבִּי עֲקִיבָא שֶׁבָּא לְבֵית הַכְּנֶסֶת וְאֶתְרוֹגוֹ עַל כְּתֵפוֹ! אָמַר לוֹ רַבִּי יְהוּדָה: מִשָּׁם רְאָיָה? אַף הֵם אָמְרוּ לוֹ: אֵין זֶה הָדָר.
The mishna continues: And in a large etrog, the maximum measure is so that one could hold two in his one hand; this is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Yosei says: It is fit even if it is so large that he can hold only one in his two hands. It is taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yosei said: There was an incident involving Rabbi Akiva, who came to the synagogue, and his etrog was so large that he carried it on his shoulder. Apparently, one can fulfill his obligation with a large etrog. Rabbi Yehuda said to him: Is there proof from there? In that case, too, the Sages said to him: That is not beauty.
מַתְנִי׳ אֵין אוֹגְדִין אֶת הַלּוּלָב אֶלָּא בְּמִינוֹ, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה. רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: אֲפִילּוּ (בְּחוּט) בִּמְשִׁיחָה. אָמַר רַבִּי מֵאִיר: מַעֲשֶׂה בְּאַנְשֵׁי יְרוּשָׁלַיִם שֶׁהָיוּ אוֹגְדִין אֶת לוּלְבֵיהֶן בְּגִימוֹנִיּוֹת שֶׁל זָהָב. אָמְרוּ לוֹ: בְּמִינוֹ הָיוּ אוֹגְדִין אוֹתוֹ מִלְּמַטָּה.
MISHNA: One may bind the lulav only with its own species; i.e., one of the four species taken with the lulav. This is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Meir says: One may do so even with a string or with a cord. Rabbi Meir said: There was an incident involving the men of Jerusalem who would bind their lulavim with gold rings. The Sages said to him: They would bind it with its own species beneath the rings, which serve a merely decorative purpose and not a halakhic one.
גְּמָ׳ אָמַר רָבָא: אֲפִילּוּ בְּסִיב, אֲפִילּוּ בְּעִיקָּרָא דְּדִיקְלָא. וְאָמַר רָבָא: מַאי טַעְמֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי יְהוּדָה, קָסָבַר: לוּלָב צָרִיךְ אֶגֶד, וְאִי מַיְיתֵי מִינָא אַחֲרִינָא — הָוֵה חַמְשָׁה מִינֵי.
GEMARA: Rava said: One may bind the lulav even with fibers that grow around the trunk of the date palm, and even with a piece of the trunk of the date palm. And Rava said: What is the rationale for the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda? He holds that a lulav requires binding, and if one brings another species to bind the lulav, there will be five species and he will violate the prohibition against adding to the mitzvot.
וְאָמַר רָבָא: מְנָא אָמֵינָא לַהּ דְּסִיב וְעִיקָּרָא דְּדִיקְלָא מִינָא דְלוּלַבָּא הוּא — דְּתַנְיָא: ״בַּסּוּכּוֹת תֵּשְׁבוּ״, סוּכָּה שֶׁל כׇּל דָּבָר, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: אֵין סוּכָּה נוֹהֶגֶת אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבָּעָה מִינִים שֶׁבַּלּוּלָב. וְהַדִּין נוֹתֵן: וּמָה לוּלָב שֶׁאֵין נוֹהֵג בַּלֵּילוֹת כְּבַיָּמִים, אֵינוֹ נוֹהֵג אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבַּעַת מִינִין, סוּכָּה שֶׁנּוֹהֶגֶת בַּלֵּילוֹת כְּבַיָּמִים — אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁלֹּא תְּהֵא אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבַּעַת מִינִין!
And Rava further said: From where do I say this halakha that fibers and the trunk of the date palm are the species of the lulav? It is as it is taught in a baraita that it is written: “You shall reside in sukkot for seven days” (Leviticus 23:42), which means a sukka of any material, as the Torah was not particular about the material to be used for the roofing; any species may be used as long as it grew from the ground and it is not susceptible to impurity. This is the statement of Rabbi Meir. Rabbi Yehuda says: The mitzva of sukka is practiced only with the four species of the lulav as roofing. And, he claims, logic dictates that it is so, as it is derived by means of an a fortiori inference: Just as the mitzva of lulav, which is not practiced at night as it is during the day, is practiced only with the four species, with regard to the mitzva of sukka, which is practiced at night as it is during the day, is it not right that its roofing should be only from the four species?
אָמְרוּ לוֹ: כׇּל דִּין שֶׁאַתָּה דָּן תְּחִלָּתוֹ לְהַחְמִיר וְסוֹפוֹ לְהָקֵל — אֵינוֹ דִּין.
The Rabbis said to him: That is not an a fortiori inference, as any a fortiori inference that you infer initially to be stringent, but ultimately it is to be lenient, is not a legitimate a fortiori inference. If ultimately the stringency leads to a leniency, the entire basis of the inference is undermined.
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My Daf journey began in August 2012 after participating in the Siyum Hashas where I was blessed as an “enabler” of others. Galvanized into my own learning I recited the Hadran on Shas in January 2020 with Rabbanit Michelle. That Siyum was a highlight in my life. Now, on round two, Daf has become my spiritual anchor to which I attribute manifold blessings.
Englewood NJ, United States
I was exposed to Talmud in high school, but I was truly inspired after my daughter and I decided to attend the Women’s Siyum Shas in 2020. We knew that this was a historic moment. We were blown away, overcome with emotion at the euphoria of the revolution. Right then, I knew I would continue. My commitment deepened with the every-morning Virtual Beit Midrash on Zoom with R. Michelle.
Zichron Yaakov, Israel
I started learning Gemara at the Yeshivah of Flatbush. And I resumed ‘ברוך ה decades later with Rabbanit Michele at Hadran. I started from Brachot and have had an exciting, rewarding experience throughout seder Moed!
Maale Adumim, Israel
I started learning with rabbis. I needed to know more than the stories. My first teacher to show me “the way of the Talmud” as well as the stories was Samara Schwartz.
Michelle Farber started the new cycle 2 yrs ago and I jumped on for the ride.
I do not look back.
Houston, United States
I started learning Dec 2019 after reading “If all the Seas Were Ink”. I found
Daily daf sessions of Rabbanit Michelle in her house teaching, I then heard about the siyum and a new cycle starting wow I am in! Afternoon here in Sydney, my family and friends know this is my sacred time to hide away to live zoom and learn. Often it’s hard to absorb and relate then a gem shines touching my heart.
Dover Heights, Australia
I started learning at the start of this cycle, and quickly fell in love. It has become such an important part of my day, enriching every part of my life.
Toronto, Canada
After reading the book, “ If All The Seas Were Ink “ by Ileana Kurshan I started studying Talmud. I searched and studied with several teachers until I found Michelle Farber. I have been studying with her for two years. I look forward every day to learn from her.
Virginia, United States
When I was working and taking care of my children, learning was never on the list. Now that I have more time I have two different Gemora classes and the nach yomi as well as the mishna yomi daily.
Jerusalem, Israel
Tel Aviv, Israel
I started to listen to Michelle’s podcasts four years ago. The minute I started I was hooked. I’m so excited to learn the entire Talmud, and think I will continue always. I chose the quote “while a woman is engaged in conversation she also holds the spindle”. (Megillah 14b). It reminds me of all of the amazing women I learn with every day who multi-task, think ahead and accomplish so much.
Zichron Yakov, Israel
I am grateful for the structure of the Daf Yomi. When I am freer to learn to my heart’s content, I learn other passages in addition. But even in times of difficulty, I always know that I can rely on the structure and social support of Daf Yomi learners all over the world.
I am also grateful for this forum. It is very helpful to learn with a group of enthusiastic and committed women.
Beit Shemesh, Israel
I started learning Jan 2020 when I heard the new cycle was starting. I had tried during the last cycle and didn’t make it past a few weeks. Learning online from old men didn’t speak to my soul and I knew Talmud had to be a soul journey for me. Enter Hadran! Talmud from Rabbanit Michelle Farber from a woman’s perspective, a mother’s perspective and a modern perspective. Motivated to continue!
Brentwood, California, United States
I learned daf more off than on 40 years ago. At the beginning of the current cycle, I decided to commit to learning daf regularly. Having Rabanit Michelle available as a learning partner has been amazing. Sometimes I learn with Hadran, sometimes with my husband, and sometimes on my own. It’s been fun to be part of an extended learning community.
Honolulu, Hawaii, United States
I learned Mishnayot more than twenty years ago and started with Gemara much later in life. Although I never managed to learn Daf Yomi consistently, I am learning since some years Gemara in depth and with much joy. Since last year I am studying at the International Halakha Scholars Program at the WIHL. I often listen to Rabbanit Farbers Gemara shiurim to understand better a specific sugyiah. I am grateful for the help and inspiration!
Berlin, Germany
Philadelphia, United States
Hadran entered my life after the last Siyum Hashaas, January 2020. I was inspired and challenged simultaneously, having never thought of learning Gemara. With my family’s encouragement, I googled “daf yomi for women”. A perfecr fit!
I especially enjoy when Rabbanit Michelle connects the daf to contemporary issues to share at the shabbat table e.g: looking at the Kohen during duchaning. Toda rabba
Jerusalem, Israel
It happened without intent (so am I yotzei?!) – I watched the women’s siyum live and was so moved by it that the next morning, I tuned in to Rabbanit Michelle’s shiur, and here I am, still learning every day, over 2 years later. Some days it all goes over my head, but others I grasp onto an idea or a story, and I ‘get it’ and that’s the best feeling in the world. So proud to be a Hadran learner.
Zichron Yaakov, Israel
When we heard that R. Michelle was starting daf yomi, my 11-year-old suggested that I go. Little did she know that she would lose me every morning from then on. I remember standing at the Farbers’ door, almost too shy to enter. After that first class, I said that I would come the next day but couldn’t commit to more. A decade later, I still look forward to learning from R. Michelle every morning.
Ra’anana, Israel
Jerusalem, Israel
Shortly after the death of my father, David Malik z”l, I made the commitment to Daf Yomi. While riding to Ben Gurion airport in January, Siyum HaShas was playing on the radio; that was the nudge I needed to get started. The “everyday-ness” of the Daf has been a meaningful spiritual practice, especial after COVID began & I was temporarily unable to say Kaddish at daily in-person minyanim.
Wynnewood, United States
Sukkah 36
הָא בְּכוּלַּהּ, הָא בְּמִקְצָתַהּ.
this mishna, where it states that if the etrog was peeled it is unfit, is in a case where all of it was peeled. That statement of Rava that if it was peeled it is fit is in a case where only part of it was peeled.
נִסְדַּק, נִיקַּב. תָּנֵי עוּלָּא בַּר חֲנִינָא: נִיקַּב נֶקֶב מְפוּלָּשׁ — בְּמַשֶּׁהוּ, וְשֶׁאֵינוֹ מְפוּלָּשׁ — בִּכְאִיסָּר.
The mishna continues discussing the halakha of an etrog that was split or pierced. Ulla bar Ḥanina taught: An etrog that was pierced with a hole that completely goes through its body is unfit with any size hole. If the hole does not completely go through the etrog, it is unfit only with a hole the size of an issar coin.
בָּעֵי רָבָא: נוֹלְדוּ בָּאֶתְרוֹג סִימָנֵי טְרֵפָה, מַהוּ? מַאי קָמִיבַּעְיָא לֵיהּ? אִי נִקְלַף — תְּנֵינָא! אִי נִסְדַּק — תְּנֵינָא! אִי נִיקַּב — תְּנֵינָא!
Rava raised a dilemma: If signs of a tereifa developed in the etrog, what is its halakhic status? The Gemara clarifies: What is the dilemma that he is raising? There are similarities between the halakhot of the etrog in the mishna and some of the halakhot of a tereifa, a bird or animal with a condition that will lead to its death within a year. If it is the case where the etrog was peeled, we already learned that case. If it is the case where the etrog was split, we learned that case as well. And if it is the case where the etrog was pierced, we learned that too. After ruling out those defects, the question remains: With regard to what is Rava’s dilemma?
כִּי קָא מִיבַּעְיָא לֵיהּ כִּדְעוּלָּא אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: רֵיאָה שֶׁנִּשְׁפְּכָה כְּקִיתוֹן — כְּשֵׁרָה. וְאָמַר רָבָא: וְהוּא דְּקָיְימִי סִימְפּוֹנַהָא. הָא לָא קָיְימִי סִימְפּוֹנַהָא — טְרֵפָה. הָכָא מַאי? דִּלְמָא הָתָם הוּא דְּלָא שָׁלֵיט בַּהּ אַוֵּירָא, הֲדַר בָּרְיָא, אֲבָל הָכָא דְּשָׁלֵיט בַּהּ אַוֵּירָא — סָרוֹחֵי מַסְרְחָא, אוֹ דִלְמָא לָא שְׁנָא?
The Gemara answers: When he raises the dilemma, it is with regard to a case like that which Ulla said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: A lung whose contents can be poured like a pitcher, i.e., whose tissue dissolved to the point of liquefaction, is not a sign of tereifa, and the animal is kosher. And Rava said: And that is the halakha only where the bronchia are intact. However, if the bronchia are not intact, it is a sign of tereifa. The dilemma here is with regard to a comparable situation in an etrog, i.e., an etrog that liquefied from within: What is its halakhic status? Perhaps it is there, in the case of the lung, where the air does not affect it since it is completely enclosed in the body, that the lungs can recover, and that is why it is not a tereifa. However, here, in the case of the etrog, where the air affects it, it inevitably decays and spoils and therefore it is a tereifa. Or, perhaps the case of the etrog is no different.
תָּא שְׁמַע: אֶתְרוֹג תָּפוּחַ סָרוּחַ, כָּבוּשׁ, שָׁלוּק, כּוּשִׁי, לָבָן, וּמְנוּמָּר — פָּסוּל. אֶתְרוֹג כְּכַדּוּר — פָּסוּל, וְיֵשׁ אוֹמְרִים: אַף הַתְּיוֹם. אֶתְרוֹג הַבּוֹסֶר — רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא פּוֹסֵל, וַחֲכָמִים מַכְשִׁירִין. גִּדְּלוֹ בִּדְפוּס וַעֲשָׂאוֹ כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת — פָּסוּל.
The Gemara answers: Come and hear a resolution to this dilemma based on that which was taught in a baraita. An etrog that is tafuaḥ, saruaḥ, pickled, boiled, a black Cushite etrog, a white etrog, or a speckled etrog is unfit. An etrog shaped like a ball is unfit, and some say even a twin, conjoined, etrog is unfit. With regard to an etrog that is unripe, Rabbi Akiva deems it unfit, and the Rabbis deem it fit. If he grew the etrog in a mold and shaped it to appear like a different entity, and it is no longer shaped like an etrog, it is unfit.
קָתָנֵי מִיהַת תָּפוּחַ סָרוּחַ, מַאי לָאו: תָּפוּחַ מִבַּחוּץ, וְסָרוּחַ מִבִּפְנִים! לָא, אִידִי וְאִידִי מִבַּחוּץ, וְלָא קַשְׁיָא: הָא דִּתְפַח אַף עַל גַּב דְּלָא סְרַח, הָא דִּסְרַח אַף עַל גַּב דְּלָא תְּפַח.
In any event, it teaches that an etrog that is tafuaḥ or saruaḥ is unfit. What, is it not that tafuaḥ means that it decayed on the outside and saruaḥ means that it decayed on the inside? The Gemara rejects this explanation: No, both this and that are referring to decay on the outside. And this apparent redundancy is not difficult, as this case, tafuaḥ, is where it swelled even though it did not decay, and that case, saruaḥ, is where it decayed even though it did not swell.
אָמַר מָר: אֶתְרוֹג כּוּשִׁי — פָּסוּל. וְהָתַנְיָא: כּוּשִׁי כָּשֵׁר, דּוֹמֶה לְכוּשִׁי — פָּסוּל! אֲמַר אַבָּיֵי: כִּי תְּנַן נָמֵי מַתְנִיתִין, דּוֹמֶה לְכוּשִׁי תְּנַן. רָבָא אָמַר: לָא קַשְׁיָא הָא לַן, וְהָא לְהוּ.
The Master said in the baraita cited above: A Cushite etrog is unfit. The Gemara asks: But isn’t it taught in a different baraita: A Cushite etrog is fit, but an etrog that is similar to a Cushite etrog is unfit. Abaye said: When we learned this halakha in the mishna that it is unfit, too, we learned it not in reference to an actual Cushite etrog, but rather in reference to one that is similar to a Cushite etrog. Rava said: Actually, the mishna is referring to a Cushite etrog, and nevertheless, it is not difficult; this, the halakha that it is unfit, is for us in Babylonia because our etrogim are typically light, and the dark Cushite etrogim are conspicuously different. And that, the halakha that it is fit, is for them in Eretz Yisrael, whose etrogim are typically dark. In Eretz Yisrael the dark Cushite etrog is not conspicuously different, and it is therefore fit.
אֶתְרוֹג הַבּוֹסֶר — רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא פּוֹסֵל וַחֲכָמִים מַכְשִׁירִין. אָמַר רַבָּה: רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא וְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אָמְרוּ דָּבָר אֶחָד. רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא — הָא דַּאֲמַרַן. רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן מַאי הִיא — (דְּתַנְיָא:) רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן פּוֹטֵר אֶת הָאֶתְרוֹגִים בְּקוֹטְנָן.
It was also taught in the baraita: With regard to an unripe etrog, Rabbi Akiva deems it unfit, and the Rabbis deem it fit. Rabba said: Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Shimon said one and the same statement. The Gemara elaborates: The statement of Rabbi Akiva is that which we said; an unripe etrog is unfit. Rabbi Shimon, what is his statement? It is as it is taught in a baraita: Rabbi Shimon exempts etrogim from the requirement to be tithed while in their small state. Apparently, Rabbi Shimon, too, holds that an unripe etrog is not a fruit.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: דִּלְמָא לָא הִיא, עַד כָּאן לָא קָאָמַר רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא הָכָא, דְּבָעֵינַן ״הָדָר״ וְלֵיכָּא, אֲבָל הָתָם — כְּרַבָּנַן סְבִירָא לֵיהּ.
Abaye said to Rabba: Perhaps that is not the case and they do not share the same opinion. Rabbi Akiva stated his opinion only here, with regard to an unripe etrog, as we require beauty [hadar] in an etrog and there is none in the case of an unripe etrog due to its color or small size; however, there, with regard to tithes, perhaps he holds in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis that one is obligated to tithe even a half-ripe etrog.
אִי נָמֵי, עַד כָּאן לָא קָאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן הָתָם, אֶלָּא דִּכְתִיב: ״עַשֵּׂר תְּעַשֵּׂר אֵת כׇּל תְּבוּאַת זַרְעֶךָ״, כְּדֶרֶךְ שֶׁבְּנֵי אָדָם מוֹצִיאִין לִזְרִיעָה. אֲבָל הָכָא, כְּרַבָּנַן סְבִירָא לֵיהּ.
Alternatively, Rabbi Shimon stated his opinion only there with regard to the exemption of an unripe etrog from tithes, as it is written: “You shall surely tithe all the produce of your planting, which is brought forth in the field year by year” (Deuteronomy 14:22). From that verse it is derived that the obligation to tithe applies only to produce that has developed to the point where it is typical for people to take it out to the field for sowing; one is not obligated to tithe unripe fruit that is not suitable for planting. However, perhaps here he holds in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis, who disagree with Rabbi Akiva and would deem an unripe etrog fit.
וְתוּ לָא מִידֵּי.
The Gemara notes: And there is nothing more to discuss here. Clearly, the opinions of Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Shimon do not necessarily coincide.
גִּדְּלוֹ בִּדְפוּס וַעֲשָׂאוֹ כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת — פָּסוּל. אָמַר רָבָא: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת, אֲבָל כִּבְרִיָּיתוֹ — כָּשֵׁר. פְּשִׁיטָא! כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת (תְּנַן)! לָא צְרִיכָא, דַּעֲבִידָא דַּפֵּי דַּפֵּי.
The baraita continues: If he grew the etrog in a mold and shaped it to appear like a different species, it is unfit. Rava said: The Sages taught that it is unfit only if he shaped it to appear like a different species; however, if he shaped the etrog so it still appears like its own species, it is fit. The Gemara asks: That is obvious; the phrase: Like a different species, is explicitly taught in the baraita. If it shaped like its own species, it is fit. The Gemara answers: No, Rava’s statement is necessary to deem fit an etrog that is shaped into the shape of many planks, i.e., pieces of wood attached to each other. Although its shape is not precisely that of a regular etrog, it sufficiently resembles a regular etrog and is fit.
אִיתְּמַר אֶתְרוֹג שֶׁנְּקָבוּהוּ עַכְבָּרִים, אָמַר רַב: אֵין זֶה הָדָר. אִינִי? וְהָא רַבִּי חֲנִינָא מְטַבֵּיל בֵּהּ וְנָפֵיק בֵּהּ! וּלְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא קַשְׁיָא מַתְנִיתִין!
§ It was stated that the amora’im disagree with regard to an etrog that mice pierced. Rav said: That is not beautiful. Is that so? But wouldn’t Rabbi Ḥanina dip his etrog, eat part of it, and fulfill his obligation with what remained of it? The Gemara asks: And for Rabbi Ḥanina, the mishna is difficult, as it states that an incomplete etrog is unfit.
בִּשְׁלָמָא מַתְנִיתִין לְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא לָא קַשְׁיָא: כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב רִאשׁוֹן, כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב שֵׁנִי. אֶלָּא לְרַב קַשְׁיָא! אָמַר לְךָ רַב: שָׁאנֵי עַכְבָּרִים דִּמְאִיסִי.
The Gemara explains: Granted, for Rabbi Ḥanina, the mishna is not difficult, as it can be explained that here, when the mishna prohibits one from using an incomplete etrog, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the first day of the festival of Sukkot, when a complete taking of the species is required; and there, when Rabbi Ḥanina’s conduct leads to the conclusion that an incomplete etrog is fit, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the second day of the Festival or thereafter. However, according to Rav, who said an etrog that was pierced by mice is unfit, Rabbi Ḥanina’s conduct is difficult, as the requirement of beauty applies on all seven days. The Gemara answers: This is not difficult, as Rav could have said to you: Mice are different, as they are repulsive. When mice pierce an etrog, what remains is antithetical to beauty. When a person bites an etrog, what remains can still be considered beautiful.
אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי, אָמַר רַב: זֶה הָדָר, דְּהָא רַבִּי חֲנִינָא מְטַבֵּיל בֵּהּ וְנָפֵיק בֵּהּ. וּלְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא קַשְׁיָא מַתְנִיתִין! לָא קַשְׁיָא: כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב רִאשׁוֹן, כָּאן בְּיוֹם טוֹב שֵׁנִי.
§ Some say this exchange differently. Rav said with regard to an etrog that mice pierced: That is beautiful, as Rabbi Ḥanina would dip his etrog, eat part of it, and fulfill his obligation with what remained of it, indicating that an incomplete etrog is fit. The Gemara asks: And for Rabbi Ḥanina, the mishna is difficult, as it states that an incomplete etrog is unfit. The Gemara answers: The mishna is not difficult; here, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the first day of the festival of Sukkot; there, it is referring to performing the mitzva on the second day of the Festival or thereafter.
אֶתְרוֹג קָטָן וְכוּ׳. אָמַר רַפְרָם בַּר פָּפָּא: כְּמַחְלוֹקֶת כָּאן, כָּךְ מַחְלוֹקֶת בַּאֲבָנִים מְקוּרְזָלוֹת. דְּתַנְיָא: בְּשַׁבָּת שָׁלֹשׁ אֲבָנִים מְקוּרְזָלוֹת מוּתָּר לְהַכְנִיס לְבֵית הַכִּסֵּא, וְכַמָּה שִׁיעוּרָן? רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: כֶּאֱגוֹז, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: כְּבֵיצָה.
A dispute between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda is cited in a mishna with regard to the minimum measure of a small etrog. Rafram bar Pappa said: Like the dispute here, so is the dispute with regard to the matter of rounded stones, as it was taught in a baraita: On Shabbat three rounded stones may be taken into the bathroom in order to clean oneself with them. Although generally one may not move stones on Shabbat because they are set aside from use, the Sages permitted doing so in the interest of human dignity. However, they disagreed, with regard to the size of these stones. And what is their measure? Rabbi Meir says: A walnut-bulk; Rabbi Yehuda says: An egg-bulk. Clearly the rationales for these disputes are different; however, since the respective measures are identical, the analogy can serve as a mnemonic.
וּבַגָּדוֹל כְּדֵי שֶׁיֹּאחַז כּוּ׳. תַּנְיָא, אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי: מַעֲשֶׂה בְּרַבִּי עֲקִיבָא שֶׁבָּא לְבֵית הַכְּנֶסֶת וְאֶתְרוֹגוֹ עַל כְּתֵפוֹ! אָמַר לוֹ רַבִּי יְהוּדָה: מִשָּׁם רְאָיָה? אַף הֵם אָמְרוּ לוֹ: אֵין זֶה הָדָר.
The mishna continues: And in a large etrog, the maximum measure is so that one could hold two in his one hand; this is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Yosei says: It is fit even if it is so large that he can hold only one in his two hands. It is taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yosei said: There was an incident involving Rabbi Akiva, who came to the synagogue, and his etrog was so large that he carried it on his shoulder. Apparently, one can fulfill his obligation with a large etrog. Rabbi Yehuda said to him: Is there proof from there? In that case, too, the Sages said to him: That is not beauty.
מַתְנִי׳ אֵין אוֹגְדִין אֶת הַלּוּלָב אֶלָּא בְּמִינוֹ, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה. רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: אֲפִילּוּ (בְּחוּט) בִּמְשִׁיחָה. אָמַר רַבִּי מֵאִיר: מַעֲשֶׂה בְּאַנְשֵׁי יְרוּשָׁלַיִם שֶׁהָיוּ אוֹגְדִין אֶת לוּלְבֵיהֶן בְּגִימוֹנִיּוֹת שֶׁל זָהָב. אָמְרוּ לוֹ: בְּמִינוֹ הָיוּ אוֹגְדִין אוֹתוֹ מִלְּמַטָּה.
MISHNA: One may bind the lulav only with its own species; i.e., one of the four species taken with the lulav. This is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Meir says: One may do so even with a string or with a cord. Rabbi Meir said: There was an incident involving the men of Jerusalem who would bind their lulavim with gold rings. The Sages said to him: They would bind it with its own species beneath the rings, which serve a merely decorative purpose and not a halakhic one.
גְּמָ׳ אָמַר רָבָא: אֲפִילּוּ בְּסִיב, אֲפִילּוּ בְּעִיקָּרָא דְּדִיקְלָא. וְאָמַר רָבָא: מַאי טַעְמֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי יְהוּדָה, קָסָבַר: לוּלָב צָרִיךְ אֶגֶד, וְאִי מַיְיתֵי מִינָא אַחֲרִינָא — הָוֵה חַמְשָׁה מִינֵי.
GEMARA: Rava said: One may bind the lulav even with fibers that grow around the trunk of the date palm, and even with a piece of the trunk of the date palm. And Rava said: What is the rationale for the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda? He holds that a lulav requires binding, and if one brings another species to bind the lulav, there will be five species and he will violate the prohibition against adding to the mitzvot.
וְאָמַר רָבָא: מְנָא אָמֵינָא לַהּ דְּסִיב וְעִיקָּרָא דְּדִיקְלָא מִינָא דְלוּלַבָּא הוּא — דְּתַנְיָא: ״בַּסּוּכּוֹת תֵּשְׁבוּ״, סוּכָּה שֶׁל כׇּל דָּבָר, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: אֵין סוּכָּה נוֹהֶגֶת אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבָּעָה מִינִים שֶׁבַּלּוּלָב. וְהַדִּין נוֹתֵן: וּמָה לוּלָב שֶׁאֵין נוֹהֵג בַּלֵּילוֹת כְּבַיָּמִים, אֵינוֹ נוֹהֵג אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבַּעַת מִינִין, סוּכָּה שֶׁנּוֹהֶגֶת בַּלֵּילוֹת כְּבַיָּמִים — אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁלֹּא תְּהֵא אֶלָּא בְּאַרְבַּעַת מִינִין!
And Rava further said: From where do I say this halakha that fibers and the trunk of the date palm are the species of the lulav? It is as it is taught in a baraita that it is written: “You shall reside in sukkot for seven days” (Leviticus 23:42), which means a sukka of any material, as the Torah was not particular about the material to be used for the roofing; any species may be used as long as it grew from the ground and it is not susceptible to impurity. This is the statement of Rabbi Meir. Rabbi Yehuda says: The mitzva of sukka is practiced only with the four species of the lulav as roofing. And, he claims, logic dictates that it is so, as it is derived by means of an a fortiori inference: Just as the mitzva of lulav, which is not practiced at night as it is during the day, is practiced only with the four species, with regard to the mitzva of sukka, which is practiced at night as it is during the day, is it not right that its roofing should be only from the four species?
אָמְרוּ לוֹ: כׇּל דִּין שֶׁאַתָּה דָּן תְּחִלָּתוֹ לְהַחְמִיר וְסוֹפוֹ לְהָקֵל — אֵינוֹ דִּין.
The Rabbis said to him: That is not an a fortiori inference, as any a fortiori inference that you infer initially to be stringent, but ultimately it is to be lenient, is not a legitimate a fortiori inference. If ultimately the stringency leads to a leniency, the entire basis of the inference is undermined.
