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Today's Daf Yomi

November 16, 2021 | 讬状讘 讘讻住诇讜 转砖驻状讘

This month's shiurim are dedicated by the Hadran Women of Minneapolis in memory of Monica Howell z"l.

This month's shiurim are also dedicated in memory of Dr. Chaya R. Gorsetman, Chaya bat Esriel V鈥橬aomi z鈥檒 during the period of shloshim by her husband, children, and grandchildren.

  • This month's learning is sponsored by Terri Krivosha for the Refuah Shlemah of her husband Harav Hayim Yehuda Ben Faiga Rivah.聽

  • This month's learning is dedicated by Debbie and Yossi Gevir to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Zoom group for their kindness, support, and care during a medically challenging year.

Taanit 4

Today鈥檚 daf is sponsored by Mitzi Geffen in loving memory of her father Jack Lock, of Harrisburg PA, who passed away one year ago, 3 months shy of his 100th birthday. 鈥淗e was an avid Zionist and so proud that all 4 of his children made Aliya to Israel, and that his 鈥渢ribe鈥 grew during his lifetime to nearly 100 family members, spanning 3 generations all in Israel. He was a generous and loving father, father-in-law, grandfather and great-grandfather, uncle and brother who is sorely missed.鈥澛

Today鈥檚 daf is also anonymously sponsored for the refuah shleima of Miriam Bat Malka.

The Gemara mentions several different statements regarding Talmudic scholars. In another statement, we are told that there were three people who asked something inappropriately of God. Two were answered fairly and one unfairly – Eliezer the servant of Avraham and Shaul in the battle with Goliath, and Yiftach. What could Yiftach have done to save his daughter? A verse is brought to emphasize that God never intended for Yiftach to slaughter his daughter. Another rabbis says that the Jewish people also asked inappropriately on two occasions. They asked that God be like the rain, which isn鈥檛 always good (as in the summer months). They were answered fairly that God will be to them like dew which is a blessing all year round. There was a second request as well. Are the times for requesting rain and praising God about rain the same? This is an issue that is not one hundred percent clear. There is a contradiction in the words of Rabbi Yehuda between our Mishna and the next Mishna. In our Mishna it is written that we stop mentioning rain on the first day of Pesach. In the next Mishna it says we stop asking for rain at the end of Pesach. The Gemara brings four resolutions but rejects three of them and concludes that these are two different traditions about what Rabbi Yehuda said. 聽It was said that Rabbi Yochanan ruled like Rabbi Yehuda, that we mention rain on Shmini Atzeret. This contradicts his student, Rabbi Elazar, who ruled like Rabban Gamliel that we ask for rain on the 7th of Marcheshvan. Is this really a contradiction? And if so, how can it be resolved? Outside of Israel when the eighth day of Shmini Atzeret is possibly the 7th day of Sukkot, when do we mention rains in our prayer?

注讜专驻讬诇讗 讗驻讬诇讜 诇驻专爪讬讚讗 讚转讜转讬 拽诇讗 诪讛谞讬讗 诇讬讛 诪讗讬 注讜专驻讬诇讗 注讜专讜 驻讬诇讬 讜讗诪专 专讘讗 讛讗讬 爪讜专讘讗 诪专讘谞谉 讚诪讬 诇驻专爪讬讚讗 讚转讜转讬 拽诇讗 讚讻讬讜谉 讚谞讘讟 谞讘讟

and drizzle [urpila] is even beneficial to a seed [partzida] under a clod of earth, as it can reach anywhere without causing any harm. The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the word drizzle? The Gemara explains: It is a contraction of the phrase: Arise, furrows [uru pilei]. And the Gemara cites another saying in which Rava uses the same imagery. Rava said: This Torah scholar [tzurva] is like a seed under a clod of earth, as once he sprouts and begins to develop, he continues to sprout and his greatness increases.

讜讗诪专 专讘讗 讛讗讬 爪讜专讘讗 诪专讘谞谉 讚专转讞 讗讜专讬讬转讗 讛讜讗 讚拽讗 诪专转讞讗 诇讬讛 砖谞讗诪专 讛诇讜讗 讻讛 讚讘专讬 讻讗砖 谞讗诐 讛壮 讜讗诪专 专讘 讗砖讬 讻诇 转诇诪讬讚 讞讻诐 砖讗讬谞讜 拽砖讛 讻讘专讝诇 讗讬谞讜 转诇诪讬讚 讞讻诐 砖谞讗诪专 讜讻驻讟讬砖 讬驻爪抓 住诇注

And, incidentally, the Gemara relates that which Rava said: This Torah scholar who grows angry, it can be presumed that it is his Torah study that angers him. Therefore, he must be given the benefit of the doubt, as it is stated: 鈥淚s not my word like fire, says the Lord鈥 (Jeremiah 23:29). And similarly, Rav Ashi said: Any Torah scholar who is not as hard as iron, but is indecisive and wavers, he is not a Torah scholar, as it is stated in the same verse: 鈥淎nd as a hammer that breaks rock in pieces鈥 (Jeremiah 23:29).

讗诪专 诇讬讛 专讘讬 讗讘讗 诇专讘 讗砖讬 讗转讜谉 诪讛转诐 诪转谞讬转讜 诇讛 讗谞谉 诪讛讻讗 诪转谞讬谞谉 诇讛 讚讻转讬讘 讗专抓 讗砖专 讗讘谞讬讛 讘专讝诇 讗诇 转拽专讬 讗讘谞讬讛 讗诇讗 讘讜谞讬讛 讗诪专 专讘讬谞讗 讗驻讬诇讜 讛讻讬 诪讬讘注讬 诇讬讛 诇讗讬谞讬砖 诇诪讬诇祝 谞驻砖讬讛 讘谞讬讞讜转讗 砖谞讗诪专 讜讛住专 讻注住 诪诇讘讱 讜讙讜壮

Rabbi Abba said to Rav Ashi: You learned the proof for this idea from that verse there; we learned it from here, as it is written: 鈥淎 land whose stones [avaneha] are iron鈥 (Deuteronomy 8:9). Do not read this phrase as 鈥渨hose stones [avaneha],鈥 rather, read it as whose builders [boneha], since Torah scholars build the land spiritually and are as tough as iron. With regard to these statements praising the toughness of a Torah scholar, Ravina said: And even so, one is required to teach himself to act gently, as it is stated: 鈥淎nd remove anger from your heart, and put away evil from your flesh鈥 (Ecclesiastes 11:10).

讗诪专 专讘讬 砖诪讜讗诇 讘专 谞讞诪谞讬 讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜谞转谉 砖诇砖讛 砖讗诇讜 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 诇砖谞讬诐 讛砖讬讘讜讛讜 讻讛讜讙谉 诇讗讞讚 讛砖讬讘讜讛讜 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 讜讗诇讜 讛谉 讗诇讬注讝专 注讘讚 讗讘专讛诐 讜砖讗讜诇 讘谉 拽讬砖 讜讬驻转讞 讛讙诇注讚讬

As a preamble to the statement of Rabbi Berekhya, below, the Gemara cites that which Rabbi Shmuel bar Na岣ani said that Rabbi Yonatan said: Three people entreated God in an unreasonable manner, i.e., in situations where their requests might have received an unfavorable answer. To two of them God responded reasonably, with a favorable response to their requests, and to one God responded unreasonably, i.e., unfavorably, in a manner befitting the unreasonable request. And they are: Eliezer, servant of Abraham; Saul, son of Kish; and Jephthah the Gileadite.

讗诇讬注讝专 注讘讚 讗讘专讛诐 讚讻转讬讘 讜讛讬讛 讛谞注专讛 讗砖专 讗诪专 讗诇讬讛 讛讟讬 谞讗 讻讚讱 讜讙讜壮 讬讻讜诇 讗驻讬诇讜 讞讬讙专转 讗驻讬诇讜 住讜诪讗 讛砖讬讘讜 讻讛讜讙谉 讜谞讝讚诪谞讛 诇讜 专讘拽讛

The Gemara clarifies each of these cases in turn: With regard to Eliezer, servant of Abraham, he made a request when he prayed beside the well, as it is written: 鈥淭hat the maiden to whom I shall say: Please let down your pitcher that I may drink; and she shall say: Drink, and I will also give your camels to drink; that she be the one whom you have appointed for your servant Isaac鈥 (Genesis 24:14). Eliezer entreated God unreasonably, as his request allowed for the possibility that she might even be lame or even blind, and yet he had promised to take her to Isaac. Nevertheless, God responded to him reasonably and the eminently suitable Rebecca happened to come to him.

砖讗讜诇 讘谉 拽讬砖 讚讻转讬讘 讜讛讬讛 讛讗讬砖 讗砖专 讬讻谞讜 讬注砖专谞讜 讛诪诇讱 注砖专 讙讚讜诇 讜讗转 讘转讜 讬转谉 诇讜 讬讻讜诇 讗驻讬诇讜 注讘讚 讗驻讬诇讜 诪诪讝专 讛砖讬讘讜 讻讛讜讙谉 讜谞讝讚诪谉 诇讜 讚讜讚

With regard to Saul, son of Kish, he made an offer when Goliath the Philistine challenged the Jews, as it is written: 鈥淎nd it shall be that the man who kills him, the king will enrich him with great riches, and will give him his daughter鈥 (I聽Samuel 17:25). The man who killed Goliath might even have been a slave or a mamzer, one born from an incestuous or adulterous union, who would be unfit to marry his daughter. Nevertheless, God responded to him reasonably and David happened to come to him.

讬驻转讞 讛讙诇注讚讬 讚讻转讬讘 讜讛讬讛 讛讬讜爪讗 讗砖专 讬爪讗 诪讚诇转讬 讘讬转讬 讜讙讜壮 讬讻讜诇 讗驻讬诇讜 讚讘专 讟诪讗 讛砖讬讘讜 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 谞讝讚诪谞讛 诇讜 讘转讜

By contrast, there is the case of Jephthah the Gileadite. Upon leaving for battle he issued a statement, as it is written: 鈥淭hen it shall be that whatever comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace鈥t shall be to the Lord and I will bring it up for a burnt-offering鈥 (Judges 11:31). This might even have been an impure, non-kosher animal, which he had committed himself to sacrifice. In this instance, God responded to him unreasonably, and his daughter happened to come to him.

讜讛讬讬谞讜 讚拽讗诪专 诇讛讜 谞讘讬讗 诇讬砖专讗诇 讛爪专讬 讗讬谉 讘讙诇注讚 讗诐 专驻讗 讗讬谉 砖诐

Regarding the incident of Jephthah, the Gemara remarks: And this is what the prophet said to the Jewish people: 鈥淚s there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then has the health of the daughter of my people not recovered?鈥 (Jeremiah 8:22). This verse alludes to the fact that had he sought a means to do so, Jephthah could have had his vow annulled.

讜讻转讬讘 讗砖专 诇讗 爪讜讬转讬 讜诇讗 讚讘专转讬 讜诇讗 注诇转讛 注诇 诇讘讬

And it is written, with regard to human sacrifice: 鈥淎nd they have also built the high places of the Ba鈥檃l, to burn their sons in the fire for burnt offerings to Ba鈥檃l, which I did not command, and I did not speak, nor did it come into My heart鈥 (Jeremiah 19:5).

讗砖专 诇讗 爪讜讬转讬 讝讛 讘谞讜 砖诇 诪讬砖注 诪诇讱 诪讜讗讘 砖谞讗诪专 讜讬拽讞 讗转 讘谞讜 讛讘讻讜专 讗砖专 讬诪诇讱 转讞转讬讜 讜讬注诇讛讜 注诇讛 讜诇讗 讚讘专转讬 讝讛 讬驻转讞 讜诇讗 注诇转讛 注诇 诇讘讬 讝讛 讬爪讞拽 讘谉 讗讘专讛诐

The Gemara interprets each phrase of this verse: 鈥淲hich I did not command,鈥 this is referring to the son of Mesha, king of Moab. King Mesha sacrificed his son, as it is stated: 鈥淭hen he took his firstborn son, who would reign after him, and he offered him as a burnt-offering鈥 (II聽Kings 3:27). 鈥淎nd I did not speak,鈥 this is referring to Jephthah, who sacrificed his daughter as an offering. 鈥淣or did it come into my heart,鈥 this is referring to Isaac, son of Abraham. Although God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, there was no intent in God鈥檚 heart that he should actually do so; it was merely a test.

讗诪专 专讘讬 讘专讻讬讛 讗祝 讻谞住转 讬砖专讗诇 砖讗诇讛 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 讜讛拽讚讜砖 讘专讜讱 讛讜讗 讛砖讬讘讛 讻讛讜讙谉 砖谞讗诪专 讜谞讚注讛 谞专讚驻讛 诇讚注转 讗转 讛壮 讻砖讞专 谞讻讜谉 诪爪讗讜 讜讬讘讜讗 讻讙砖诐 诇谞讜

搂 In light of the above statement, the Gemara returns to the issue of rain. Rabbi Berekhya said: The Congregation of Israel also entreated God unreasonably, and yet the Holy One, Blessed be He, responded reasonably, as it is stated: 鈥淎nd let us know, eagerly strive to know the Lord. His going forth is sure as the morning, and He will come to us as the rain鈥 (Hosea 6:3). They compared the revelation of God to the rain.

讗诪专 诇讛 讛拽讚讜砖 讘专讜讱 讛讜讗 讘转讬 讗转 砖讜讗诇转 讚讘专 砖驻注诪讬诐 诪转讘拽砖 讜驻注诪讬诐 讗讬谞讜 诪转讘拽砖 讗讘诇 讗谞讬 讗讛讬讛 诇讱 讚讘专 讛诪转讘拽砖 诇注讜诇诐 砖谞讗诪专 讗讛讬讛 讻讟诇 诇讬砖专讗诇

In response, the Holy One, Blessed be He, said to the Jewish people: My daughter, you request the manifestation of My Presence by comparing Me to a matter, rain, that is sometimes desired, but is sometimes undesired, e.g., during the summer. However, I will be to you like a matter that is always desired, dew, as it is stated: 鈥淚 will be as the dew to Israel鈥 (Hosea 14:6), since dew appears in all seasons and is invariably a blessing.

讜注讜讚 砖讗诇讛 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 讗诪专讛 诇驻谞讬讜 专讘讜谞讜 砖诇 注讜诇诐 砖讬诪谞讬 讻讞讜转诐 注诇 诇讘讱 讻讞讜转诐 注诇 讝专讜注讱 讗诪专 诇讛 讛拽讚讜砖 讘专讜讱 讛讜讗 讘转讬 讗转 砖讜讗诇转 讚讘专 砖驻注诪讬诐 谞专讗讛 讜驻注诪讬诐 讗讬谞讜 谞专讗讛 讗讘诇 讗谞讬 讗注砖讛 诇讱 讚讘专 砖谞专讗讛 诇注讜诇诐 砖谞讗诪专 讛谉 注诇 讻驻讬诐 讞拽转讬讱

And the Congregation of Israel further entreated God unreasonably in another context, saying before Him: Master of the Universe: 鈥淪et me as a seal upon Your heart, as a seal upon Your arm鈥 (Song of Songs 8:6). The Holy One, Blessed be He, said to her: My daughter, you ask that I be manifest to you in a matter that is sometimes visible and sometimes not visible, as the heart and arm are not covered. However, I will act so that I manifest Myself for you like a matter that is always visible, as it is stated: 鈥淏ehold, I have engraved you on the palms of My hands, your walls are continually before me鈥 (Isaiah 49:16).

讗讬谉 砖讜讗诇讬谉 讗转 讛讙砖诪讬诐 讻讜壮 住讘专讜讛 砖讗诇讛 讜讛讝讻专讛 讞讚讗 诪讬诇转讗 讛讬讗 诪讗谉 转谞讗 讗诪专 专讘讗 专讘讬 讬讛讜砖注 讛讬讗 讚讗诪专 诪砖注转 讛谞讞转讜

搂 The Gemara returns to the halakhot of the mishna: One requests rain only immediately preceding the rainy season. The Sages assumed that requesting and mentioning are one and the same thing, and consequently they asked: Who is the tanna who taught this halakha? The Gemara answers that Rava said: It is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, who said that one mentions rain from the time of putting down the lulav, i.e., the Eighth Day of Assembly, which is indeed near the rainy season.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讘讬讬 讗驻讬诇讜 转讬诪讗 专讘讬 讗诇讬注讝专 砖讗诇讛 诇讞讜讚 讜讛讝讻专讛 诇讞讜讚

Abaye said to him: Even if you say that it is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, who holds that one mentions rain from the first day of the festival of Sukkot, this ruling of the mishna can be explained by distinguishing between the two terms: Requesting is a discrete concept and mentioning is another discrete concept. In other words, even according to the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, one begins to request rain just before the rainy season, on the Eighth Day of Assembly, whereas one starts to mention rain already on the first day of Sukkot.

讜讗讬讻讗 讚讗诪专讬 诇讬诪讗

And some say a different version of this discussion: Let us say

专讘讬 讬讛讜砖注 讛讬讗 讚讗诪专 诪砖注转 讛谞讞转讜 讗诪专 专讘讗 讗驻讬诇讜 转讬诪讗 专讘讬 讗诇讬注讝专 砖讗诇讛 诇讞讜讚 讜讛讝讻专讛 诇讞讜讚

that our mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, who said that one mentions rain from the time of putting the lulav down, from the Eighth Day of Assembly, and it is not in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer. Rava said: Even if you say that the ruling of the mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, one can explain this by distinguishing between the terms: Requesting is a distinct notion and mentioning is another distinct notion, even according to the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer.

专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 讗讜诪专 讛注讜讘专 诇驻谞讬 讛转讬讘讛 讻讜壮

搂 The mishna stated that Rabbi Yehuda says: With regard to the one who passes before the ark as prayer leader on the concluding Festival day of Sukkot, the Eighth Day of Assembly, the prayer leader of the additional prayer mentions rain, while the leader of the morning prayer does not. The reverse is the case at the conclusion of the period of mentioning rain, as the leader of the morning prayer mentions rain, while the one who leads the additional prayer does not.

讜专诪讬谞讛讜 注讚 诪转讬 砖讜讗诇讬谉 讗转 讛讙砖诪讬诐 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 讗讜诪专 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讛驻住讞 专讘讬 诪讗讬专 讗讜诪专 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 谞讬住谉

And the Gemara raises a contradiction from a baraita (5a): Until when does one request rain? Rabbi Yehuda says: Until Passover has passed. Rabbi Meir says: Until the month of Nisan has passed. According to the baraita, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one prays for rain until the end of Passover, whereas the mishna states that Rabbi Yehuda鈥檚 opinion is that one prays for rain only until the beginning of the Festival.

讗诪专 专讘 讞住讚讗 诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讗谉 诇砖讗讜诇 讻讗谉 诇讛讝讻讬专 诪讬砖讗诇 砖讗讬诇 讜讗讝讬诇 诇讛讝讻讬专 讘讬讜诐 讟讜讘 讛专讗砖讜谉 驻住讬拽

Rav 岣sda said: This is not difficult. The baraita here is referring to the request for rain, which continues until the end of Passover, whereas the mishna there rules that one is to mention rain only until the first Festival day. In other words, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one continues requesting rain until the end of Passover, but with regard to the mention of rain, already on the first day of the Festival one ceases to do so.

讗诪专 注讜诇讗 讛讗 讚专讘 讞住讚讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讞诪抓 诇砖谞讬诐 讜讻注砖谉 诇注讬谞讬诐 讜诪讛 讘诪拽讜诐 砖讗讬谞讜 砖讜讗诇 诪讝讻讬专 讘诪拽讜诐 砖砖讜讗诇 讗讬谞讜 讚讬谉 砖讬讛讗 诪讝讻讬专

The Gemara raises a difficulty against this answer. Ulla said: That which Rav 岣sda said is as difficult to accept 鈥渁s vinegar to the teeth, and as smoke to the eyes鈥 (Proverbs 10:26). He elaborates: If when one does not yet request rain, at the beginning of the rainy season, one nevertheless mentions rain; in a case when one requests rain, i.e., during Passover, according to this explanation, is it not right that one should also mention rain?

讗诇讗 讗诪专 注讜诇讗 转专讬 转谞讗讬 讗诇讬讘讗 讚专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛

Rather, Ulla said an alternative resolution: In fact, two tanna鈥檌m expressed different rulings in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda. According to one tanna, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one both mentions and requests rain during Passover, whereas according to the other tanna, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one neither mentions nor requests rain after the morning prayer of the first day of Passover.

专讘 讬讜住祝 讗诪专 诪讗讬 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讛驻住讞 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 砖诇讬讞 爪讘讜专 专讗砖讜谉 讛讬讜专讚 讘讬讜诐 讟讜讘 专讗砖讜谉 砖诇 驻住讞

The Gemara cites an additional resolution of the apparent contradiction. Rav Yosef said: What is the meaning of the phrase: Until Passover has passed [ya鈥檃vor]? It means: Until the first prayer leader who descends to pray has passed before the ark for the morning prayers on the first Festival day of Passover. According to this explanation, the mishna and baraita specify the same time period for the end of the mention and request for rain.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讘讬讬 砖讗诇讛 讘讬讜诐 讟讜讘 诪讬 讗讬讻讗

Abaye said to Rav Yosef: Is there a request for rain on a Festival? The request for rain is included in the ninth blessing of the Amida, the blessing of the years, which is not recited on Shabbat and Festivals. If the term Passover in the baraita is referring to the entire Festival, this includes the intermediate Festival days, during which the ninth blessing of the Amida is recited. However, according to your interpretation, the baraita refers only to the first day of the Festival, and yet the request for rain is not recited on this date.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讬谉 砖讜讗诇 诪转讜专讙诪谉 讜讻讬 诪转讜专讙诪谉 砖讜讗诇 讚讘专 砖讗讬谞讜 爪专讬讱 诇爪讘讜专 讗诇讗 诪讞讜讜专转讗 讻讚注讜诇讗

The Gemara cites the response: Rav Yosef said to Abaye: Yes, the baraita is speaking of the first day of Passover. However, it does not refer to the request for rain recited in the Amida. Rather, the disseminator and translator of the Torah portion would recite a request for rain after the Festival prayers. The Gemara asks: But would a disseminator request a matter that the community does not need? As there is no need for rain on Passover, why would the disseminator recite a request for it? Rather, it is clear, as Ulla explained, there are two tannaitic versions of Rabbi Yehuda鈥檚 opinion.

专讘讛 讗诪专 诪讗讬 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讛驻住讞 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讝诪谉 砖讞讬讟转 讛驻住讞 讜讻转讞讬诇转讜 讻谉 住讜驻讜 诪讛 转讞讬诇转讜 诪讝讻讬专 讗祝 注诇 驻讬 砖讗讬谞讜 砖讜讗诇 讗祝 住讜驻讜 诪讝讻讬专 讗祝 注诇 驻讬 砖讗讬谞讜 砖讜讗诇

Rabba said another explanation: What is the meaning of the phrase: Until Passover has passed? It means until after the time for the slaughter of the Paschal lamb has passed, the afternoon of the fourteenth of Nisan, i.e., until the beginning of Passover. And according to this opinion, the practice at the beginning of the time for praying for rain is like that of the end: Just as at the beginning of the rainy season one mentions rain although one does not request it, so too, at the end, on the first day of Passover, one mentions rain although one does not request it. The request for rain ends on the eve of Passover, while the mention of rain continues until the morning service the following day.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讘讬讬 讘砖诇诪讗 转讞讬诇转讜 诪讝讻讬专 讛讝讻专讛 谞诪讬 专讬爪讜讬 砖讗诇讛 讛讬讗 讗诇讗 住讜驻讜 诪讗讬 专讬爪讜讬 砖讗诇讛 讗讬讻讗 讗诇讗 诪讞讜讜专转讗 讻讚注讜诇讗

Abaye said to Rabba: Granted, at the beginning of the rainy season one mentions rain before requesting it, as mentioning rain is also an appeasement to God in advance of the forthcoming request. However, at the end of the season, what appeasement toward a request is there that would necessitate the mention of rain after one has ceased requesting it? The Gemara again concludes: Rather, it is clear as Ulla explained.

讗诪专 专讘讬 讗住讬 讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讛诇讻讛 讻专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 讗诪专 诇讬讛 专讘讬 讝讬专讗 诇专讘讬 讗住讬 讜诪讬 讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讛讻讬 讜讛转谞谉 讘砖诇砖讛 讘诪专讞砖讜讜谉 砖讜讗诇讬谉 讗转 讛讙砖诪讬诐 专讘谉 讙诪诇讬讗诇 讗讜诪专 讘砖讘注讛 讘讜 讜讗诪专 专讘讬 讗诇注讝专 讛诇讻讛 讻专讘谉 讙诪诇讬讗诇

Rabbi Asi said that Rabbi Yo岣nan said: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Zeira said to Rabbi Asi: And did Rabbi Yo岣nan actually say that? But didn鈥檛 we learn in a mishna (6a): On the third of Mar岣shvan one starts to request rain. Rabban Gamliel says: One starts on the seventh of Mar岣shvan. And with regard to this mishna, Rabbi Elazar, Rabbi Yo岣nan鈥檚 preeminent student, said: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabban Gamliel.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讙讘专讗 讗讙讘专讗 拽讗 专诪讬转 讗讬讘注讬转 讗讬诪讗 诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讗谉 诇砖讗讜诇 讻讗谉 诇讛讝讻讬专

Rabbi Asi said to Rabbi Zeira: Are you raising a contradiction from the statement of one man against the statement of another man? Although Rabbi Elazar was Rabbi Yo岣nan鈥檚 student, their opinions need not be consistent with one another. If you wish, say instead that this is not difficult, as Rabbi Elazar鈥檚 ruling here is referring to the request for rain, which begins on the seventh of Mar岣shvan, whereas Rabbi Yo岣nan鈥檚 ruling there is referring to the mention of rain, which begins on the Eighth Day of Assembly.

讜讛讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讘诪拽讜诐 砖砖讜讗诇 诪讝讻讬专 讛讛讜讗 诇讛驻住拽讛 讗讬转诪专 讜讛讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讛转讞讬诇 诇讛讝讻讬专 诪转讞讬诇 诇砖讗讜诇 驻住拽 诪诇砖讗讜诇 驻讜住拽 诪诇讛讝讻讬专

The Gemara asks: But didn鈥檛 Rabbi Yo岣nan say: At the same time when one requests rain, one mentions it. The Gemara answers: That ruling was stated only with regard to ceasing the request and mention of rain. Although Rabbi Yo岣nan maintains that one stops requesting and mentioning rain on the same date, he does not hold that one begins to do both at the same time. The Gemara objects: But didn鈥檛 Rabbi Yo岣nan explicitly say: When one begins to mention rain, one begins to request it; and when one ceases to request rain, one ceases to mention it. This clearly indicates that, in his opinion, there is no discrepancy between the dates when one begins reciting the two formulations.

讗诇讗 诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讛讗 诇谉 讛讗 诇讛讜 诪讗讬 砖谞讗 诇讚讬讚谉 讚讗讬转 诇谉 驻讬专讬 讘讚讘专讗 诇讚讬讚讛讜 谞诪讬 讗讬转 诇讛讜 注讜诇讬 专讙诇讬诐

The Gemara answers: Rather, it is not difficult. This statement, where Rabbi Yo岣nan ruled in accordance with the opinion of Rabban Gamliel, is for us, who live in Babylonia and start to pray for rain later, whereas that statement of the mishna is for them, the residents of Eretz Yisrael. The Gemara asks: What is different with regard to us in Babylonia that we do not request rain immediately after Sukkot? The reason is that we still have fruit in the field. Therefore, we do not want rain to fall. However, they, the inhabitants of Eretz Yisrael, also have pilgrims who need to travel for a significant time to reach their homes after the Festival, and they do not want it to rain on them.

讻讬 拽讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讘讝诪谉 砖讗讬谉 讘讬转 讛诪拽讚砖 拽讬讬诐 讛砖转讗 讚讗转讬转 诇讛讻讬 讛讗 讜讛讗 诇讚讬讚讛讜 讜诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讗谉 讘讝诪谉 砖讘讬转 讛诪拽讚砖 拽讬讬诐 讻讗谉 讘讝诪谉 砖讗讬谉 讘讬转 讛诪拽讚砖 拽讬讬诐

The Gemara answers: When Rabbi Yo岣nan said this ruling in the mishna, he was referring to the period when the Temple is not standing; therefore, in Eretz Yisrael, one can immediately request rain. The Gemara comments: Now that you have arrived at this answer, one can say that both this statement and that statement are for them, i.e., those in Eretz Yisrael. And yet, it is not difficult, as this statement here, that one waits before requesting rain, applies at the time when the Temple is standing, while the ruling there, that one requests rain right after the Festival, is referring to the time when the Temple is not standing.

讜讗谞谉 讚讗讬转 诇谉 转专讬 讬讜诪讬 讛讬讻讬 注讘讚讬谞谉 讗诪专 专讘 诪转讞讬诇 讘诪讜住驻讬谉 讜驻讜住拽 讘诪谞讞讛 注专讘讬转 讜砖讞专讬转 讜讞讜讝专 讘诪讜住驻讬谉

The Gemara asks: And we in the Diaspora who have two Festival days, how do we act with regard to beginning the mention of rain, given the uncertainty concerning the Eighth Day of Assembly, which might in reality be the seventh day of Sukkot? The Gemara answers that Rav said: One begins to mention rain in the additional prayers of the eighth day, the first day of the Eighth Day of Assembly. And one temporarily ceases this practice on the afternoon prayer of the eighth day, continuing through the evening and morning prayers of the ninth day, the second day of the Eighth Day of Assembly. And finally one again resumes mentioning rain in the additional prayers of the ninth day, Sim岣t Torah.

讗诪专 诇讛讜 砖诪讜讗诇 驻讜拽讜 讜讗诪专讜 诇讬讛 诇讗讘讗 讗讞专 砖注砖讬转讜 拽讜讚砖 转注砖讛讜 讞讜诇 讗诇讗 讗诪专 砖诪讜讗诇 诪转讞讬诇 讘诪讜住驻讬谉 讜讘诪谞讞讛 讜驻讜住拽 注专讘讬转 讜砖讞专讬转 讜讞讜讝专 讜诪转讞讬诇 讘诪讜住驻讬谉

Shmuel said to those who reported Rav鈥檚 explanation to him: Go out and tell Abba, referring to Rav by his name, the following objection: After you have rendered the first day of the Eighth Day of Assembly sanctified, shall you defile it by treating it as though it is not a Festival day? Rather, Shmuel said (10a): One begins to mention rain in the additional prayers and also mentions it in the afternoon prayer of the eighth day, the first day of the Eighth Day of Assembly, and temporarily ceases this practice on the afternoon prayer of the eighth day, continuing through the evening and morning prayers of the ninth day, Sim岣t Torah. And finally, one again resumes mentioning rain in the additional prayers of the ninth day, Sim岣t Torah.

This month's shiurim are dedicated by聽the Hadran Women of Minneapolis in memory of Monica Howell z"l.

And in memory of Dr. Chaya R. Gorsetman, Chaya bat Esriel V鈥橬aomi z鈥檒 during the period of shloshim by her husband, children and grandchildren.

  • This month's learning is sponsored by Terri Krivosha for the Refuah Shlemah of her husband Harav Hayim Yehuda Ben Faiga Rivah.聽

  • This month's learning is dedicated by Debbie and Yossi Gevir to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Zoom group for their kindness, support, and care during a medically challenging year.

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Taanit 4

The William Davidson Talmud | Powered by Sefaria

Taanit 4

注讜专驻讬诇讗 讗驻讬诇讜 诇驻专爪讬讚讗 讚转讜转讬 拽诇讗 诪讛谞讬讗 诇讬讛 诪讗讬 注讜专驻讬诇讗 注讜专讜 驻讬诇讬 讜讗诪专 专讘讗 讛讗讬 爪讜专讘讗 诪专讘谞谉 讚诪讬 诇驻专爪讬讚讗 讚转讜转讬 拽诇讗 讚讻讬讜谉 讚谞讘讟 谞讘讟

and drizzle [urpila] is even beneficial to a seed [partzida] under a clod of earth, as it can reach anywhere without causing any harm. The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the word drizzle? The Gemara explains: It is a contraction of the phrase: Arise, furrows [uru pilei]. And the Gemara cites another saying in which Rava uses the same imagery. Rava said: This Torah scholar [tzurva] is like a seed under a clod of earth, as once he sprouts and begins to develop, he continues to sprout and his greatness increases.

讜讗诪专 专讘讗 讛讗讬 爪讜专讘讗 诪专讘谞谉 讚专转讞 讗讜专讬讬转讗 讛讜讗 讚拽讗 诪专转讞讗 诇讬讛 砖谞讗诪专 讛诇讜讗 讻讛 讚讘专讬 讻讗砖 谞讗诐 讛壮 讜讗诪专 专讘 讗砖讬 讻诇 转诇诪讬讚 讞讻诐 砖讗讬谞讜 拽砖讛 讻讘专讝诇 讗讬谞讜 转诇诪讬讚 讞讻诐 砖谞讗诪专 讜讻驻讟讬砖 讬驻爪抓 住诇注

And, incidentally, the Gemara relates that which Rava said: This Torah scholar who grows angry, it can be presumed that it is his Torah study that angers him. Therefore, he must be given the benefit of the doubt, as it is stated: 鈥淚s not my word like fire, says the Lord鈥 (Jeremiah 23:29). And similarly, Rav Ashi said: Any Torah scholar who is not as hard as iron, but is indecisive and wavers, he is not a Torah scholar, as it is stated in the same verse: 鈥淎nd as a hammer that breaks rock in pieces鈥 (Jeremiah 23:29).

讗诪专 诇讬讛 专讘讬 讗讘讗 诇专讘 讗砖讬 讗转讜谉 诪讛转诐 诪转谞讬转讜 诇讛 讗谞谉 诪讛讻讗 诪转谞讬谞谉 诇讛 讚讻转讬讘 讗专抓 讗砖专 讗讘谞讬讛 讘专讝诇 讗诇 转拽专讬 讗讘谞讬讛 讗诇讗 讘讜谞讬讛 讗诪专 专讘讬谞讗 讗驻讬诇讜 讛讻讬 诪讬讘注讬 诇讬讛 诇讗讬谞讬砖 诇诪讬诇祝 谞驻砖讬讛 讘谞讬讞讜转讗 砖谞讗诪专 讜讛住专 讻注住 诪诇讘讱 讜讙讜壮

Rabbi Abba said to Rav Ashi: You learned the proof for this idea from that verse there; we learned it from here, as it is written: 鈥淎 land whose stones [avaneha] are iron鈥 (Deuteronomy 8:9). Do not read this phrase as 鈥渨hose stones [avaneha],鈥 rather, read it as whose builders [boneha], since Torah scholars build the land spiritually and are as tough as iron. With regard to these statements praising the toughness of a Torah scholar, Ravina said: And even so, one is required to teach himself to act gently, as it is stated: 鈥淎nd remove anger from your heart, and put away evil from your flesh鈥 (Ecclesiastes 11:10).

讗诪专 专讘讬 砖诪讜讗诇 讘专 谞讞诪谞讬 讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜谞转谉 砖诇砖讛 砖讗诇讜 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 诇砖谞讬诐 讛砖讬讘讜讛讜 讻讛讜讙谉 诇讗讞讚 讛砖讬讘讜讛讜 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 讜讗诇讜 讛谉 讗诇讬注讝专 注讘讚 讗讘专讛诐 讜砖讗讜诇 讘谉 拽讬砖 讜讬驻转讞 讛讙诇注讚讬

As a preamble to the statement of Rabbi Berekhya, below, the Gemara cites that which Rabbi Shmuel bar Na岣ani said that Rabbi Yonatan said: Three people entreated God in an unreasonable manner, i.e., in situations where their requests might have received an unfavorable answer. To two of them God responded reasonably, with a favorable response to their requests, and to one God responded unreasonably, i.e., unfavorably, in a manner befitting the unreasonable request. And they are: Eliezer, servant of Abraham; Saul, son of Kish; and Jephthah the Gileadite.

讗诇讬注讝专 注讘讚 讗讘专讛诐 讚讻转讬讘 讜讛讬讛 讛谞注专讛 讗砖专 讗诪专 讗诇讬讛 讛讟讬 谞讗 讻讚讱 讜讙讜壮 讬讻讜诇 讗驻讬诇讜 讞讬讙专转 讗驻讬诇讜 住讜诪讗 讛砖讬讘讜 讻讛讜讙谉 讜谞讝讚诪谞讛 诇讜 专讘拽讛

The Gemara clarifies each of these cases in turn: With regard to Eliezer, servant of Abraham, he made a request when he prayed beside the well, as it is written: 鈥淭hat the maiden to whom I shall say: Please let down your pitcher that I may drink; and she shall say: Drink, and I will also give your camels to drink; that she be the one whom you have appointed for your servant Isaac鈥 (Genesis 24:14). Eliezer entreated God unreasonably, as his request allowed for the possibility that she might even be lame or even blind, and yet he had promised to take her to Isaac. Nevertheless, God responded to him reasonably and the eminently suitable Rebecca happened to come to him.

砖讗讜诇 讘谉 拽讬砖 讚讻转讬讘 讜讛讬讛 讛讗讬砖 讗砖专 讬讻谞讜 讬注砖专谞讜 讛诪诇讱 注砖专 讙讚讜诇 讜讗转 讘转讜 讬转谉 诇讜 讬讻讜诇 讗驻讬诇讜 注讘讚 讗驻讬诇讜 诪诪讝专 讛砖讬讘讜 讻讛讜讙谉 讜谞讝讚诪谉 诇讜 讚讜讚

With regard to Saul, son of Kish, he made an offer when Goliath the Philistine challenged the Jews, as it is written: 鈥淎nd it shall be that the man who kills him, the king will enrich him with great riches, and will give him his daughter鈥 (I聽Samuel 17:25). The man who killed Goliath might even have been a slave or a mamzer, one born from an incestuous or adulterous union, who would be unfit to marry his daughter. Nevertheless, God responded to him reasonably and David happened to come to him.

讬驻转讞 讛讙诇注讚讬 讚讻转讬讘 讜讛讬讛 讛讬讜爪讗 讗砖专 讬爪讗 诪讚诇转讬 讘讬转讬 讜讙讜壮 讬讻讜诇 讗驻讬诇讜 讚讘专 讟诪讗 讛砖讬讘讜 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 谞讝讚诪谞讛 诇讜 讘转讜

By contrast, there is the case of Jephthah the Gileadite. Upon leaving for battle he issued a statement, as it is written: 鈥淭hen it shall be that whatever comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace鈥t shall be to the Lord and I will bring it up for a burnt-offering鈥 (Judges 11:31). This might even have been an impure, non-kosher animal, which he had committed himself to sacrifice. In this instance, God responded to him unreasonably, and his daughter happened to come to him.

讜讛讬讬谞讜 讚拽讗诪专 诇讛讜 谞讘讬讗 诇讬砖专讗诇 讛爪专讬 讗讬谉 讘讙诇注讚 讗诐 专驻讗 讗讬谉 砖诐

Regarding the incident of Jephthah, the Gemara remarks: And this is what the prophet said to the Jewish people: 鈥淚s there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then has the health of the daughter of my people not recovered?鈥 (Jeremiah 8:22). This verse alludes to the fact that had he sought a means to do so, Jephthah could have had his vow annulled.

讜讻转讬讘 讗砖专 诇讗 爪讜讬转讬 讜诇讗 讚讘专转讬 讜诇讗 注诇转讛 注诇 诇讘讬

And it is written, with regard to human sacrifice: 鈥淎nd they have also built the high places of the Ba鈥檃l, to burn their sons in the fire for burnt offerings to Ba鈥檃l, which I did not command, and I did not speak, nor did it come into My heart鈥 (Jeremiah 19:5).

讗砖专 诇讗 爪讜讬转讬 讝讛 讘谞讜 砖诇 诪讬砖注 诪诇讱 诪讜讗讘 砖谞讗诪专 讜讬拽讞 讗转 讘谞讜 讛讘讻讜专 讗砖专 讬诪诇讱 转讞转讬讜 讜讬注诇讛讜 注诇讛 讜诇讗 讚讘专转讬 讝讛 讬驻转讞 讜诇讗 注诇转讛 注诇 诇讘讬 讝讛 讬爪讞拽 讘谉 讗讘专讛诐

The Gemara interprets each phrase of this verse: 鈥淲hich I did not command,鈥 this is referring to the son of Mesha, king of Moab. King Mesha sacrificed his son, as it is stated: 鈥淭hen he took his firstborn son, who would reign after him, and he offered him as a burnt-offering鈥 (II聽Kings 3:27). 鈥淎nd I did not speak,鈥 this is referring to Jephthah, who sacrificed his daughter as an offering. 鈥淣or did it come into my heart,鈥 this is referring to Isaac, son of Abraham. Although God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, there was no intent in God鈥檚 heart that he should actually do so; it was merely a test.

讗诪专 专讘讬 讘专讻讬讛 讗祝 讻谞住转 讬砖专讗诇 砖讗诇讛 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 讜讛拽讚讜砖 讘专讜讱 讛讜讗 讛砖讬讘讛 讻讛讜讙谉 砖谞讗诪专 讜谞讚注讛 谞专讚驻讛 诇讚注转 讗转 讛壮 讻砖讞专 谞讻讜谉 诪爪讗讜 讜讬讘讜讗 讻讙砖诐 诇谞讜

搂 In light of the above statement, the Gemara returns to the issue of rain. Rabbi Berekhya said: The Congregation of Israel also entreated God unreasonably, and yet the Holy One, Blessed be He, responded reasonably, as it is stated: 鈥淎nd let us know, eagerly strive to know the Lord. His going forth is sure as the morning, and He will come to us as the rain鈥 (Hosea 6:3). They compared the revelation of God to the rain.

讗诪专 诇讛 讛拽讚讜砖 讘专讜讱 讛讜讗 讘转讬 讗转 砖讜讗诇转 讚讘专 砖驻注诪讬诐 诪转讘拽砖 讜驻注诪讬诐 讗讬谞讜 诪转讘拽砖 讗讘诇 讗谞讬 讗讛讬讛 诇讱 讚讘专 讛诪转讘拽砖 诇注讜诇诐 砖谞讗诪专 讗讛讬讛 讻讟诇 诇讬砖专讗诇

In response, the Holy One, Blessed be He, said to the Jewish people: My daughter, you request the manifestation of My Presence by comparing Me to a matter, rain, that is sometimes desired, but is sometimes undesired, e.g., during the summer. However, I will be to you like a matter that is always desired, dew, as it is stated: 鈥淚 will be as the dew to Israel鈥 (Hosea 14:6), since dew appears in all seasons and is invariably a blessing.

讜注讜讚 砖讗诇讛 砖诇讗 讻讛讜讙谉 讗诪专讛 诇驻谞讬讜 专讘讜谞讜 砖诇 注讜诇诐 砖讬诪谞讬 讻讞讜转诐 注诇 诇讘讱 讻讞讜转诐 注诇 讝专讜注讱 讗诪专 诇讛 讛拽讚讜砖 讘专讜讱 讛讜讗 讘转讬 讗转 砖讜讗诇转 讚讘专 砖驻注诪讬诐 谞专讗讛 讜驻注诪讬诐 讗讬谞讜 谞专讗讛 讗讘诇 讗谞讬 讗注砖讛 诇讱 讚讘专 砖谞专讗讛 诇注讜诇诐 砖谞讗诪专 讛谉 注诇 讻驻讬诐 讞拽转讬讱

And the Congregation of Israel further entreated God unreasonably in another context, saying before Him: Master of the Universe: 鈥淪et me as a seal upon Your heart, as a seal upon Your arm鈥 (Song of Songs 8:6). The Holy One, Blessed be He, said to her: My daughter, you ask that I be manifest to you in a matter that is sometimes visible and sometimes not visible, as the heart and arm are not covered. However, I will act so that I manifest Myself for you like a matter that is always visible, as it is stated: 鈥淏ehold, I have engraved you on the palms of My hands, your walls are continually before me鈥 (Isaiah 49:16).

讗讬谉 砖讜讗诇讬谉 讗转 讛讙砖诪讬诐 讻讜壮 住讘专讜讛 砖讗诇讛 讜讛讝讻专讛 讞讚讗 诪讬诇转讗 讛讬讗 诪讗谉 转谞讗 讗诪专 专讘讗 专讘讬 讬讛讜砖注 讛讬讗 讚讗诪专 诪砖注转 讛谞讞转讜

搂 The Gemara returns to the halakhot of the mishna: One requests rain only immediately preceding the rainy season. The Sages assumed that requesting and mentioning are one and the same thing, and consequently they asked: Who is the tanna who taught this halakha? The Gemara answers that Rava said: It is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, who said that one mentions rain from the time of putting down the lulav, i.e., the Eighth Day of Assembly, which is indeed near the rainy season.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讘讬讬 讗驻讬诇讜 转讬诪讗 专讘讬 讗诇讬注讝专 砖讗诇讛 诇讞讜讚 讜讛讝讻专讛 诇讞讜讚

Abaye said to him: Even if you say that it is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, who holds that one mentions rain from the first day of the festival of Sukkot, this ruling of the mishna can be explained by distinguishing between the two terms: Requesting is a discrete concept and mentioning is another discrete concept. In other words, even according to the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, one begins to request rain just before the rainy season, on the Eighth Day of Assembly, whereas one starts to mention rain already on the first day of Sukkot.

讜讗讬讻讗 讚讗诪专讬 诇讬诪讗

And some say a different version of this discussion: Let us say

专讘讬 讬讛讜砖注 讛讬讗 讚讗诪专 诪砖注转 讛谞讞转讜 讗诪专 专讘讗 讗驻讬诇讜 转讬诪讗 专讘讬 讗诇讬注讝专 砖讗诇讛 诇讞讜讚 讜讛讝讻专讛 诇讞讜讚

that our mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, who said that one mentions rain from the time of putting the lulav down, from the Eighth Day of Assembly, and it is not in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer. Rava said: Even if you say that the ruling of the mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, one can explain this by distinguishing between the terms: Requesting is a distinct notion and mentioning is another distinct notion, even according to the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer.

专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 讗讜诪专 讛注讜讘专 诇驻谞讬 讛转讬讘讛 讻讜壮

搂 The mishna stated that Rabbi Yehuda says: With regard to the one who passes before the ark as prayer leader on the concluding Festival day of Sukkot, the Eighth Day of Assembly, the prayer leader of the additional prayer mentions rain, while the leader of the morning prayer does not. The reverse is the case at the conclusion of the period of mentioning rain, as the leader of the morning prayer mentions rain, while the one who leads the additional prayer does not.

讜专诪讬谞讛讜 注讚 诪转讬 砖讜讗诇讬谉 讗转 讛讙砖诪讬诐 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 讗讜诪专 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讛驻住讞 专讘讬 诪讗讬专 讗讜诪专 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 谞讬住谉

And the Gemara raises a contradiction from a baraita (5a): Until when does one request rain? Rabbi Yehuda says: Until Passover has passed. Rabbi Meir says: Until the month of Nisan has passed. According to the baraita, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one prays for rain until the end of Passover, whereas the mishna states that Rabbi Yehuda鈥檚 opinion is that one prays for rain only until the beginning of the Festival.

讗诪专 专讘 讞住讚讗 诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讗谉 诇砖讗讜诇 讻讗谉 诇讛讝讻讬专 诪讬砖讗诇 砖讗讬诇 讜讗讝讬诇 诇讛讝讻讬专 讘讬讜诐 讟讜讘 讛专讗砖讜谉 驻住讬拽

Rav 岣sda said: This is not difficult. The baraita here is referring to the request for rain, which continues until the end of Passover, whereas the mishna there rules that one is to mention rain only until the first Festival day. In other words, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one continues requesting rain until the end of Passover, but with regard to the mention of rain, already on the first day of the Festival one ceases to do so.

讗诪专 注讜诇讗 讛讗 讚专讘 讞住讚讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讞诪抓 诇砖谞讬诐 讜讻注砖谉 诇注讬谞讬诐 讜诪讛 讘诪拽讜诐 砖讗讬谞讜 砖讜讗诇 诪讝讻讬专 讘诪拽讜诐 砖砖讜讗诇 讗讬谞讜 讚讬谉 砖讬讛讗 诪讝讻讬专

The Gemara raises a difficulty against this answer. Ulla said: That which Rav 岣sda said is as difficult to accept 鈥渁s vinegar to the teeth, and as smoke to the eyes鈥 (Proverbs 10:26). He elaborates: If when one does not yet request rain, at the beginning of the rainy season, one nevertheless mentions rain; in a case when one requests rain, i.e., during Passover, according to this explanation, is it not right that one should also mention rain?

讗诇讗 讗诪专 注讜诇讗 转专讬 转谞讗讬 讗诇讬讘讗 讚专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛

Rather, Ulla said an alternative resolution: In fact, two tanna鈥檌m expressed different rulings in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda. According to one tanna, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one both mentions and requests rain during Passover, whereas according to the other tanna, Rabbi Yehuda holds that one neither mentions nor requests rain after the morning prayer of the first day of Passover.

专讘 讬讜住祝 讗诪专 诪讗讬 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讛驻住讞 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 砖诇讬讞 爪讘讜专 专讗砖讜谉 讛讬讜专讚 讘讬讜诐 讟讜讘 专讗砖讜谉 砖诇 驻住讞

The Gemara cites an additional resolution of the apparent contradiction. Rav Yosef said: What is the meaning of the phrase: Until Passover has passed [ya鈥檃vor]? It means: Until the first prayer leader who descends to pray has passed before the ark for the morning prayers on the first Festival day of Passover. According to this explanation, the mishna and baraita specify the same time period for the end of the mention and request for rain.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讘讬讬 砖讗诇讛 讘讬讜诐 讟讜讘 诪讬 讗讬讻讗

Abaye said to Rav Yosef: Is there a request for rain on a Festival? The request for rain is included in the ninth blessing of the Amida, the blessing of the years, which is not recited on Shabbat and Festivals. If the term Passover in the baraita is referring to the entire Festival, this includes the intermediate Festival days, during which the ninth blessing of the Amida is recited. However, according to your interpretation, the baraita refers only to the first day of the Festival, and yet the request for rain is not recited on this date.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讬谉 砖讜讗诇 诪转讜专讙诪谉 讜讻讬 诪转讜专讙诪谉 砖讜讗诇 讚讘专 砖讗讬谞讜 爪专讬讱 诇爪讘讜专 讗诇讗 诪讞讜讜专转讗 讻讚注讜诇讗

The Gemara cites the response: Rav Yosef said to Abaye: Yes, the baraita is speaking of the first day of Passover. However, it does not refer to the request for rain recited in the Amida. Rather, the disseminator and translator of the Torah portion would recite a request for rain after the Festival prayers. The Gemara asks: But would a disseminator request a matter that the community does not need? As there is no need for rain on Passover, why would the disseminator recite a request for it? Rather, it is clear, as Ulla explained, there are two tannaitic versions of Rabbi Yehuda鈥檚 opinion.

专讘讛 讗诪专 诪讗讬 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讛驻住讞 注讚 砖讬注讘讜专 讝诪谉 砖讞讬讟转 讛驻住讞 讜讻转讞讬诇转讜 讻谉 住讜驻讜 诪讛 转讞讬诇转讜 诪讝讻讬专 讗祝 注诇 驻讬 砖讗讬谞讜 砖讜讗诇 讗祝 住讜驻讜 诪讝讻讬专 讗祝 注诇 驻讬 砖讗讬谞讜 砖讜讗诇

Rabba said another explanation: What is the meaning of the phrase: Until Passover has passed? It means until after the time for the slaughter of the Paschal lamb has passed, the afternoon of the fourteenth of Nisan, i.e., until the beginning of Passover. And according to this opinion, the practice at the beginning of the time for praying for rain is like that of the end: Just as at the beginning of the rainy season one mentions rain although one does not request it, so too, at the end, on the first day of Passover, one mentions rain although one does not request it. The request for rain ends on the eve of Passover, while the mention of rain continues until the morning service the following day.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讗讘讬讬 讘砖诇诪讗 转讞讬诇转讜 诪讝讻讬专 讛讝讻专讛 谞诪讬 专讬爪讜讬 砖讗诇讛 讛讬讗 讗诇讗 住讜驻讜 诪讗讬 专讬爪讜讬 砖讗诇讛 讗讬讻讗 讗诇讗 诪讞讜讜专转讗 讻讚注讜诇讗

Abaye said to Rabba: Granted, at the beginning of the rainy season one mentions rain before requesting it, as mentioning rain is also an appeasement to God in advance of the forthcoming request. However, at the end of the season, what appeasement toward a request is there that would necessitate the mention of rain after one has ceased requesting it? The Gemara again concludes: Rather, it is clear as Ulla explained.

讗诪专 专讘讬 讗住讬 讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讛诇讻讛 讻专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 讗诪专 诇讬讛 专讘讬 讝讬专讗 诇专讘讬 讗住讬 讜诪讬 讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讛讻讬 讜讛转谞谉 讘砖诇砖讛 讘诪专讞砖讜讜谉 砖讜讗诇讬谉 讗转 讛讙砖诪讬诐 专讘谉 讙诪诇讬讗诇 讗讜诪专 讘砖讘注讛 讘讜 讜讗诪专 专讘讬 讗诇注讝专 讛诇讻讛 讻专讘谉 讙诪诇讬讗诇

Rabbi Asi said that Rabbi Yo岣nan said: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Zeira said to Rabbi Asi: And did Rabbi Yo岣nan actually say that? But didn鈥檛 we learn in a mishna (6a): On the third of Mar岣shvan one starts to request rain. Rabban Gamliel says: One starts on the seventh of Mar岣shvan. And with regard to this mishna, Rabbi Elazar, Rabbi Yo岣nan鈥檚 preeminent student, said: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabban Gamliel.

讗诪专 诇讬讛 讙讘专讗 讗讙讘专讗 拽讗 专诪讬转 讗讬讘注讬转 讗讬诪讗 诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讗谉 诇砖讗讜诇 讻讗谉 诇讛讝讻讬专

Rabbi Asi said to Rabbi Zeira: Are you raising a contradiction from the statement of one man against the statement of another man? Although Rabbi Elazar was Rabbi Yo岣nan鈥檚 student, their opinions need not be consistent with one another. If you wish, say instead that this is not difficult, as Rabbi Elazar鈥檚 ruling here is referring to the request for rain, which begins on the seventh of Mar岣shvan, whereas Rabbi Yo岣nan鈥檚 ruling there is referring to the mention of rain, which begins on the Eighth Day of Assembly.

讜讛讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讘诪拽讜诐 砖砖讜讗诇 诪讝讻讬专 讛讛讜讗 诇讛驻住拽讛 讗讬转诪专 讜讛讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讛转讞讬诇 诇讛讝讻讬专 诪转讞讬诇 诇砖讗讜诇 驻住拽 诪诇砖讗讜诇 驻讜住拽 诪诇讛讝讻讬专

The Gemara asks: But didn鈥檛 Rabbi Yo岣nan say: At the same time when one requests rain, one mentions it. The Gemara answers: That ruling was stated only with regard to ceasing the request and mention of rain. Although Rabbi Yo岣nan maintains that one stops requesting and mentioning rain on the same date, he does not hold that one begins to do both at the same time. The Gemara objects: But didn鈥檛 Rabbi Yo岣nan explicitly say: When one begins to mention rain, one begins to request it; and when one ceases to request rain, one ceases to mention it. This clearly indicates that, in his opinion, there is no discrepancy between the dates when one begins reciting the two formulations.

讗诇讗 诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讛讗 诇谉 讛讗 诇讛讜 诪讗讬 砖谞讗 诇讚讬讚谉 讚讗讬转 诇谉 驻讬专讬 讘讚讘专讗 诇讚讬讚讛讜 谞诪讬 讗讬转 诇讛讜 注讜诇讬 专讙诇讬诐

The Gemara answers: Rather, it is not difficult. This statement, where Rabbi Yo岣nan ruled in accordance with the opinion of Rabban Gamliel, is for us, who live in Babylonia and start to pray for rain later, whereas that statement of the mishna is for them, the residents of Eretz Yisrael. The Gemara asks: What is different with regard to us in Babylonia that we do not request rain immediately after Sukkot? The reason is that we still have fruit in the field. Therefore, we do not want rain to fall. However, they, the inhabitants of Eretz Yisrael, also have pilgrims who need to travel for a significant time to reach their homes after the Festival, and they do not want it to rain on them.

讻讬 拽讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉 讘讝诪谉 砖讗讬谉 讘讬转 讛诪拽讚砖 拽讬讬诐 讛砖转讗 讚讗转讬转 诇讛讻讬 讛讗 讜讛讗 诇讚讬讚讛讜 讜诇讗 拽砖讬讗 讻讗谉 讘讝诪谉 砖讘讬转 讛诪拽讚砖 拽讬讬诐 讻讗谉 讘讝诪谉 砖讗讬谉 讘讬转 讛诪拽讚砖 拽讬讬诐

The Gemara answers: When Rabbi Yo岣nan said this ruling in the mishna, he was referring to the period when the Temple is not standing; therefore, in Eretz Yisrael, one can immediately request rain. The Gemara comments: Now that you have arrived at this answer, one can say that both this statement and that statement are for them, i.e., those in Eretz Yisrael. And yet, it is not difficult, as this statement here, that one waits before requesting rain, applies at the time when the Temple is standing, while the ruling there, that one requests rain right after the Festival, is referring to the time when the Temple is not standing.

讜讗谞谉 讚讗讬转 诇谉 转专讬 讬讜诪讬 讛讬讻讬 注讘讚讬谞谉 讗诪专 专讘 诪转讞讬诇 讘诪讜住驻讬谉 讜驻讜住拽 讘诪谞讞讛 注专讘讬转 讜砖讞专讬转 讜讞讜讝专 讘诪讜住驻讬谉

The Gemara asks: And we in the Diaspora who have two Festival days, how do we act with regard to beginning the mention of rain, given the uncertainty concerning the Eighth Day of Assembly, which might in reality be the seventh day of Sukkot? The Gemara answers that Rav said: One begins to mention rain in the additional prayers of the eighth day, the first day of the Eighth Day of Assembly. And one temporarily ceases this practice on the afternoon prayer of the eighth day, continuing through the evening and morning prayers of the ninth day, the second day of the Eighth Day of Assembly. And finally one again resumes mentioning rain in the additional prayers of the ninth day, Sim岣t Torah.

讗诪专 诇讛讜 砖诪讜讗诇 驻讜拽讜 讜讗诪专讜 诇讬讛 诇讗讘讗 讗讞专 砖注砖讬转讜 拽讜讚砖 转注砖讛讜 讞讜诇 讗诇讗 讗诪专 砖诪讜讗诇 诪转讞讬诇 讘诪讜住驻讬谉 讜讘诪谞讞讛 讜驻讜住拽 注专讘讬转 讜砖讞专讬转 讜讞讜讝专 讜诪转讞讬诇 讘诪讜住驻讬谉

Shmuel said to those who reported Rav鈥檚 explanation to him: Go out and tell Abba, referring to Rav by his name, the following objection: After you have rendered the first day of the Eighth Day of Assembly sanctified, shall you defile it by treating it as though it is not a Festival day? Rather, Shmuel said (10a): One begins to mention rain in the additional prayers and also mentions it in the afternoon prayer of the eighth day, the first day of the Eighth Day of Assembly, and temporarily ceases this practice on the afternoon prayer of the eighth day, continuing through the evening and morning prayers of the ninth day, Sim岣t Torah. And finally, one again resumes mentioning rain in the additional prayers of the ninth day, Sim岣t Torah.

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