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Bava Batra 23

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Today’s daf is sponsored by Gabrielle Altman in loving memory of Yechezkel Yitzhak Ben Shlomo Zev, Honorable Herbert Altman z”l on his Shloshim. “Beloved husband, father, grandfather and great grandfather, brilliant jurist, and wonderful Jew. He will be forever cherished, missed, and loved. Yehi Zichro Baruch.”

Today’s daf is sponsored by Becki Goldstein in honor of the marriage of her cousin Aviva Engel to Mickey Fankhauser, the Aliyah of her parents from Montreal to Modiin, and welcomes her brother Rabbi Zvi Engel from Chicago who will be the mesader kiddushin. “My heart is full of thanksgiving to Hashem for all his chasadim. והריקותי לכם ברכה והצלחה בלי די.”

A story is told about Rav Yosef who has bloodletters that worked under his tree and attracted ravens that ruined his tree. He wanted to get rid of the bloodletters. Abaye questioned this as the damages were indirect, but Rav Yosef answered that even indirect damages are forbidden. Did the bloodletters have a legitimate claim that they had been doing this already for a while (chazaka) and Rav Yosef would not be able to kick them out? Can one create a chazaka for damages?

One needs to distance one’s dovecote from a city and other fields a certain distance to prevent one’s doves from eating seeds or grains of others. But if one purchased a field with a dovecote within a short distance from one’s neighbor, one can assume that it was done within the law (the neighbor allowed it or was compensated financially). What is the distance needed? How does this correspond to the distance mentioned regarding setting up traps for trapping doves? The Mishna discusses laws relating to a chick found in a certain area – how does one determine to whom the chick belongs? Rabbi Chanina says that in determining cases with uncertainties, if there is a majority factor and a proximity factor that lead each to different conclusions, one follows the majority. Difficulties are raised from three sources (including our Mishna) which indicate that proximity is the more determining factor. Each one is resolved. In the context of those difficulties, Rabbi Yirmia asked a question on account of which he was kicked out of the Beit Midrash!

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Bava Batra 23

אָתוּ אוּמָּנֵי וְיָתְבִי תּוּתַיְיהוּ, וְאָתוּ עוֹרְבֵי אָכְלִי דְּמָא, וְסָלְקִי אַבֵּי תָאלֵי וּמַפְסְדִי תַּמְרֵי. אֲמַר לְהוּ רַב יוֹסֵף: אַפִּיקוּ לִי קוּרְקוּר מֵהָכָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וְהָא גְּרָמָא הוּא! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָכִי אָמַר רַב טוֹבִי בַּר מַתְנָה, זֹאת אוֹמֶרֶת: גְּרָמָא בְּנִיזָּקִין אָסוּר.

bloodletters would come and sit beneath them and perform their work there, and crows would come, eat the blood, and fly up to the palm trees and damage the dates. Rav Yosef said to the bloodletters: Remove these crowing birds from here, i.e., leave in order to avoid further damage. Abaye said to him: But it is an indirect action, as the bloodletters themselves are not damaging the dates. Rav Yosef said to him that Rav Tovi bar Mattana said as follows: That is to say that it is prohibited to cause even indirect damage.

וְהָא אַחְזֵיק [לְהוּ]! הָא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: אֵין חֲזָקָה לִנְזָקִין. וְלָאו אִיתְּמַר עֲלַהּ – רַב מָרִי אָמַר: בְּקוּטְרָא, וְרַב זְבִיד אָמַר: בְּבֵית הַכִּסֵּא?! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָנֵי, לְדִידִי – דַּאֲנִינָא דַּעְתַּאי, כִּי קוּטְרָא וּבֵית הַכִּסֵּא דָּמוּ לִי.

Abaye said to Rav Yosef: But they have established an acquired privilege to use that particular spot for their work. Rav Yosef replied: Doesn’t Rav Naḥman say that Rabba bar Avuh says: There is no acquired privilege of use in cases of damage, i.e., an established situation may not be allowed to continue in the event that damage results. Abaye inquired further: But wasn’t it stated with regard to that statement of Rav Naḥman that Rav Mari said it is referring specifically to smoke, and Rav Zevid said it is referring to a bathroom? In other words, this principle was stated specifically in the context of damage caused by these substances. Rav Yosef said to him: For me, as I am sensitive, these are like smoke and a bathroom to me, which is why I have the right to demand that the bloodletters leave.

מַתְנִי׳ מַרְחִיקִין אֶת הַשּׁוֹבָךְ מִן הָעִיר חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה. וְלֹא יַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם שׁוֹבָךְ בְּתוֹךְ שֶׁלּוֹ, אֶלָּא אִם כֵּן יֵשׁ לוֹ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה לְכׇל רוּחַ. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּית אַרְבַּעַת כּוֹרִין – מְלֹא שֶׁגֶר הַיּוֹנֶה. וְאִם לְקָחוֹ – אֲפִילּוּ בֵּית רוֹבַע, הֲרֵי הוּא בְּחֶזְקָתוֹ.

MISHNA: One must distance a dovecote fifty cubits from the city to prevent doves from eating seeds in the town. And a person should not establish a dovecote within his own property unless he has fifty cubits in each direction between the dovecote and the edge of his property. Rabbi Yehuda says that one must have surrounding the dovecote the area required for sowing four kor of seed on each side, which generally extends as far as a dove flies in a single flight. And if one bought the dovecote with the land, he has the acquired privilege of its use even if it has surrounding it only the area required for sowing a quarter-kav of seed [beit rova] around it, and he need not remove it from there.

גְּמָ׳ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – וְתוּ לָא? וּרְמִינְהִי: אֵין פּוֹרְסִין נִשְׁבִּין לְיוֹנִים, אֶלָּא אִם כֵּן הָיָה רָחוֹק מִן הַיִּשּׁוּב שְׁלֹשִׁים רִיס!

GEMARA: The Gemara asks: Must one distance a dovecote only fifty cubits from the city and no more? Is that as far as one can expect a dove to fly? And the Gemara raises a contradiction from a mishna (Bava Kamma 79b): One may spread out traps [neshavin] for doves only if this was performed at a distance of at least thirty ris, or four mil, which is eight thousand cubits, from any settled area, to avoid catching birds that belong to another. Apparently, doves fly a distance of thirty ris, whereas the mishna here states fifty cubits.

אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: מֵישָׁט שָׁיְיטִי טוּבָא, וּכְרֵסַיְיהוּ בַּחֲמִשִּׁים אַמְּתָא מַלְיָא. וּמֵישָׁט – שְׁלֹשִׁים רִיס וְתוּ לָא? וְהָתַנְיָא: וּבַיִּשּׁוּב – אֲפִילּוּ מֵאָה מִיל לֹא יִפְרוֹס! רַב יוֹסֵף אָמַר: בְּיִשּׁוּב כְּרָמִים.

Abaye said: Doves do fly great distances, which is why one must avoid catching others’ birds by keeping traps thirty ris away from settled areas. But as they eat along their way, their stomachs are filled after a distance of fifty cubits, at which point they will do no more damage to seeds. The Gemara asks: And do they fly only thirty ris and no more? But isn’t it taught in a baraita: And in a settled area, one may not spread out a trap even if the area under his control extends as far as one hundred mil in each direction? Rav Yosef says: That baraita is referring to a settled area of vineyards, i.e., a contiguous region of vineyards and gardens. In that case the doves pass from place to place even over a great distance.

רָבָא אָמַר: בְּיִשּׁוּב שׁוֹבָכִין. וְתִיפּוֹק לֵיהּ מִשּׁוּם שׁוֹבָכִין גּוּפַיְיהוּ! אִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: דִּידֵיהּ, וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: דְּגוֹי, וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: דְּהֶפְקֵר.

Rava said: The baraita is referring to a settled area of dovecotes, i.e., where many dovecotes are distributed. The Gemara asks: And according to Rava, let the tanna derive that one may not establish a new dovecote there due to the other dovecotes themselves, as he will trap doves belonging to others. The Gemara answers: If you wish, say that this is referring to his own dovecotes. And if you wish, say it is referring to the dovecotes of a gentile, whose property one is not obligated to protect from harm. And if you wish, say it is referring to ownerless dovecotes.

רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּית אַרְבַּעַת כּוֹרִין וְכוּ׳. אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא, וְאִיתֵּימָא רַב זְבִיד: זֹאת אוֹמֶרֶת, טוֹעֲנִין לְלוֹקֵחַ וְטוֹעֲנִין לְיוֹרֵשׁ.

§ Rabbi Yehuda says that one must have surrounding the dovecote the area required for sowing four kor of seed on each side, which is as far as a dove flies in a single flight. And if one bought the dovecote with the land, he has the acquired privilege of its use. Rav Pappa said, and some say it was Rav Zevid: That is to say that a court issues a claim on behalf of a buyer, and issues a claim on behalf of an heir. This is referring to the halakha of taking possession. If one has been physically in possession of an item for a period of time, generally three years, this serves as proof that he is in fact the legal owner. This possession must be accompanied by a claim of how one acquired the item; he cannot simply state that no one protested his possessing the item for three years. Rav Pappa is saying that the court will lodge a claim on behalf of a buyer or heir that they acquired the item from someone who was the owner, just as here the court assumes that the previous owner of the dovecote came to an agreement with his neighbors that he may use it.

יוֹרֵשׁ – תְּנֵינָא: הַבָּא מִשּׁוּם יְרוּשָּׁה – אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ טַעֲנָה! לוֹקֵחַ אִיצְטְרִיכָא לֵיהּ. לוֹקֵחַ נָמֵי תְּנֵינָא: לָקַח חָצֵר וּבָהּ זִיזִין וּגְזוּזְטְרָאוֹת – הֲרֵי זֶה בְּחֶזְקָתָהּ!

The Gemara asks: Why is it necessary for Rav Pappa to state this halakha? We already learn this with regard to an heir (41a): In the case of land that comes as an inheritance, one is not required to make a claim as to how the land came into his benefactor’s possession when one’s ownership of the land is challenged. The Gemara answers: It was necessary for him to state this halakha with regard to a buyer. The Gemara asks: With regard to a buyer as well, we learn this in a mishna (60a): If one bought a courtyard in which there are projections and balconies [ugzuztraot] extending into the public domain, this courtyard retains its presumptive status, i.e., the owner has the acquired privilege of their use, and the court does not demand their removal.

צְרִיכָא; דְּאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן הָתָם גַּבֵּי רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים – דְּאֵימוֹר כּוֹנֵס לְתוֹךְ שֶׁלּוֹ הוּא, אִי נָמֵי אַחוֹלֵי אַחוּל בְּנֵי רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים גַּבֵּיהּ; אֲבָל הָכָא – לָא;

The Gemara answers: It was necessary for the tanna of the mishna to state this halakha in both cases, as, if he had taught us this only there, in that mishna, one might have said that it applies specifically with regard to a protrusion or a balcony that extends into the public domain, as one can say that perhaps it is a case where the seller had drawn back into his own land before adding the projections and balconies, and they in fact do not extend into the public thoroughfare. Alternatively, perhaps the public waived their right to him and allowed him to place them over the common area, as otherwise they would have protested. But here, where he causes damage to private individuals, one might have thought that the buyer does not have a privilege of use, and therefore the mishna teaches us otherwise.

וְאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן הָכָא, דְּכֵיוָן דְּיָחִיד הוּא – אֵימָא: פַּיּוֹסֵי פַּיְּיסֵיהּ, אִי נָמֵי אַחוֹלֵי אַחֵיל גַּבֵּיהּ; אֲבָל רַבִּים, מַאן פַּיֵּיס וּמַאן שָׁבֵיק – אֵימָא לָא; צְרִיכָא.

And if he had taught this only in the mishna here, one might say that since the party potentially suffering damage is an individual, the owner of the dovecote appeased his neighbor by paying him to permit him to construct it. Alternatively, the neighbor might have waived his right to him. But in a case where damage is caused to the public, one might argue: Whom did he appease, and who yielded to him? Consequently, one might say that the purchaser does not retain the privilege of use. Therefore, it is necessary for the tanna to state the halakha in this case as well.

הֲרֵי הוּא בְּחֶזְקָתוֹ. וְהָא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: אֵין חֲזָקָה לִנְזָקִין! רַב מָרִי אָמַר: בְּקוּטְרָא, רַב זְבִיד אָמַר: בְּבֵית הַכִּסֵּא.

§ The mishna teaches that if one bought the dovecote with the land, he has the acquired privilege of use. The Gemara asks: But doesn’t Rav Naḥman say that Rabba bar Avuh says: There is no acquired privilege of use for cases of damage? Why should he retain his acquired privilege of use when his doves cause damage? Rav Mari said: Rav Naḥman’s statement is referring specifically to smoke, which causes serious damage, and that is why it overrides an acquired privilege. Rav Zevid said: It is referring to a bathroom, whose odor is particularly strong.

מַתְנִי׳ נִיפּוּל הַנִּמְצָא בְּתוֹךְ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל בַּעַל הַשּׁוֹבָךְ. חוּץ מֵחֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל מוֹצְאוֹ. נִמְצָא בֵּין שְׁנֵי שׁוֹבָכוֹת; קָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ. קָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ. מֶחֱצָה עַל מֶחֱצָה – שְׁנֵיהֶם יַחְלוֹקוּ.

MISHNA: With regard to a dove chick [nippul] that was found within fifty cubits of a dovecote, it belongs to the owner of the dovecote. If it was found beyond fifty cubits from a dovecote, it belongs to its finder. In a case where it was found between two dovecotes, if it was close to this one, it belongs to the owner of this dovecote; if it was close to that one, it belongs to the owner of that dovecote. If it was half and half, i.e., equidistant from the two dovecotes, the two owners divide the value of the chick.

גְּמָ׳ אָמַר רַבִּי חֲנִינָא: רוֹב וְקָרוֹב – הוֹלְכִין אַחַר הָרוֹב; וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּרוּבָּא דְּאוֹרָיְיתָא וְקוּרְבָא דְּאוֹרָיְיתָא – אֲפִילּוּ הָכִי, רוּבָּא עֲדִיף.

GEMARA: Rabbi Ḥanina says: When resolving an uncertainty with regard to the halakhic status of an item, e.g., a found item, if the status of the majority of like items indicates that it has one status but the item in question is proximate to a source that indicates otherwise, one follows the majority. And even though the halakha of majority applies by Torah law and the halakha of proximity also applies by Torah law, even so the majority is preferable.

מֵתִיב רַבִּי זֵירָא: ״וְהָיָה הָעִיר הַקְּרֹבָה אֶל הֶחָלָל״ – וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּאִיכָּא אַחֲרִיתִי דִּנְפִישָׁא מִינַּהּ!

Rabbi Zeira raises an objection from the Torah’s statement with regard to a murder victim where the identity of the murderer is unknown. In a case of this kind, the court measures the distances between the corpse and the nearby towns, in order to determine which town is closest and must consequently perform the rite of the heifer whose neck is broken. The verse states: “And it shall be, that the city that is nearest to the slain man, the Elders of that city shall take a heifer of the herd…and shall break the heifer’s neck” (Deuteronomy 21:3–4). And this town is chosen even though there might be another town that is larger in population than it. According to Rabbi Ḥanina, in a case of this kind one should follow the majority.

בִּדְלֵיכָּא. וְלֵיזִיל בָּתַר רוּבָּא דְעָלְמָא! בְּיוֹשֶׁבֶת בֵּין הֶהָרִים.

The Gemara answers: This verse is referring to a situation where there is no other town that is larger than that one. The Gemara asks: And still, if one follows the majority, why should the court follow the closest city? Let us follow the majority of the world, as most people are found elsewhere. The Gemara answers: This is referring to a case where the city sits in isolation between mountains, and therefore it is unlikely that the murderer arrived from elsewhere.

תְּנַן: נִיפּוּל הַנִּמְצָא בְּתוֹךְ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל בַּעַל הַשּׁוֹבָךְ; וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּאִיכָּא אַחֲרִינָא דִּנְפִישׁ מִינֵּיהּ! בִּדְלֵיכָּא.

The Gemara continues to discuss the issue of majority as opposed to proximity. We learned in the mishna: With regard to a dove chick that was found within fifty cubits of a dovecote, it belongs to the owner of the dovecote. And as the mishna does not make a distinction between different cases, it indicates that this is the halakha even though there is another dovecote that is larger than the proximate one in terms of number of birds. This shows that closeness, not majority, is the determining factor. The Gemara answers: This is referring to a case where there is no other dovecote in the area.

אִי הָכִי, אֵימָא סֵיפָא: חוּץ מֵחֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל מוֹצְאוֹ. וְאִי דְּלֵיכָּא, וַדַּאי מֵהָהוּא נְפַל! הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן – בִּמְדַדֶּה, דְּאָמַר רַב עוּקְבָא בַּר חָמָא: כׇּל הַמְדַדֶּה – אֵין מְדַדֶּה יוֹתֵר מֵחֲמִשִּׁים.

The Gemara asks: If so, say the latter clause of the mishna: If it was found beyond fifty cubits from a dovecote, it belongs to its finder. And if there is no other dovecote in the area, it certainly fell from that dovecote. How, then, can it be given to the finder? The Gemara answers: With what are we dealing here? We are dealing with a chick that hops from place to place but does not yet fly. As Rav Ukva bar Ḥama says: With regard to any creature that hops, it does not hop more than fifty cubits. Consequently, any bird found within fifty cubits of a dovecote is assumed to have come from there. If it is farther away than that, it likely came from elsewhere or was dropped by travelers.

בָּעֵי רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: רַגְלוֹ אַחַת בְּתוֹךְ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה, וְרַגְלוֹ אַחַת חוּץ מֵחֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – מַהוּ? וְעַל דָּא אַפְּקוּהוּ לְרַבִּי יִרְמְיָה מִבֵּי מִדְרְשָׁא.

Rabbi Yirmeya raises a dilemma: If one leg of the chick was within fifty cubits of the dovecote, and one leg was beyond fifty cubits, what is the halakha? The Gemara comments: And it was for his question about this far-fetched scenario that they removed Rabbi Yirmeya from the study hall, as he was apparently wasting the Sages’ time.

תָּא שְׁמַע: נִמְצָא בֵּין שְׁנֵי שׁוֹבָכוֹת; קָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ, וְקָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ; וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּחַד מִינַּיְיהוּ נְפִישׁ מֵחַבְרֵיהּ! הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן – שֶׁשְּׁנֵיהֶן שָׁוִין. וְלֵיזִיל בָּתַר רוּבָּא דְעָלְמָא! הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן –

The Gemara further suggests: Come and hear the mishna: In a case where it was found between two dovecotes, if it was close to this one, it belongs to the owner of this dovecote; if it was close to that one, it belongs to the owner of that dovecote. The Gemara comments: And this is the halakha even though one of them is greater in number of birds than the other one. Apparently, one rules based on proximity, not majority. The Gemara explains: With what are we dealing here? We are dealing with a situation where the two dovecotes are equal in size. The Gemara asks: But even so, why should one follow the closer dovecote? Let us follow the majority of the world, as there are many other dovecotes besides these, and the number of doves they contain is greater. The Gemara responds: With what are we dealing here?

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My Daf journey began in August 2012 after participating in the Siyum Hashas where I was blessed as an “enabler” of others.  Galvanized into my own learning I recited the Hadran on Shas in January 2020 with Rabbanit Michelle. That Siyum was a highlight in my life.  Now, on round two, Daf has become my spiritual anchor to which I attribute manifold blessings.

Rina Goldberg
Rina Goldberg

Englewood NJ, United States

When I started studying Hebrew at Brown University’s Hillel, I had no idea that almost 38 years later, I’m doing Daf Yomi. My Shabbat haburah is led by Rabbanit Leah Sarna. The women are a hoot. I’m tracking the completion of each tractate by reading Ilana Kurshan’s memoir, If All the Seas Were Ink.

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Hannah Lee

Pennsylvania, United States

I had dreamed of doing daf yomi since I had my first serious Talmud class 18 years ago at Pardes with Rahel Berkovitz, and then a couple of summers with Leah Rosenthal. There is no way I would be able to do it without another wonderful teacher, Michelle, and the Hadran organization. I wake up and am excited to start each day with the next daf.

Beth Elster
Beth Elster

Irvine, United States

Retirement and Covid converged to provide me with the opportunity to commit to daily Talmud study in October 2020. I dove into the middle of Eruvin and continued to navigate Seder Moed, with Rabannit Michelle as my guide. I have developed more confidence in my learning as I completed each masechet and look forward to completing the Daf Yomi cycle so that I can begin again!

Rhona Fink
Rhona Fink

San Diego, United States

I started at the beginning of this cycle. No 1 reason, but here’s 5.
In 2019 I read about the upcoming siyum hashas.
There was a sermon at shul about how anyone can learn Talmud.
Talmud references come up when I am studying. I wanted to know more.
Yentl was on telly. Not a great movie but it’s about studying Talmud.
I went to the Hadran website: A new cycle is starting. I’m gonna do this

Denise Neapolitan
Denise Neapolitan

Cambridge, United Kingdom

I began my journey two years ago at the beginning of this cycle of the daf yomi. It has been an incredible, challenging experience and has given me a new perspective of Torah Sh’baal Peh and the role it plays in our lives

linda kalish-marcus
linda kalish-marcus

Efrat, Israel

I heard about the syium in January 2020 & I was excited to start learning then the pandemic started. Learning Daf became something to focus on but also something stressful. As the world changed around me & my family I had to adjust my expectations for myself & the world. Daf Yomi & the Hadran podcast has been something I look forward to every day. It gives me a moment of centering & Judaism daily.

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Talia Haykin

Denver, United States

With Rabbanit Dr. Naomi Cohen in the Women’s Talmud class, over 30 years ago. It was a “known” class and it was accepted, because of who taught. Since then I have also studied with Avigail Gross-Gelman and Dr. Gabriel Hazut for about a year). Years ago, in a shiur in my shul, I did know about Persians doing 3 things with their clothes on. They opened the shiur to woman after that!

Sharon Mink
Sharon Mink

Haifa, Israel

When I began learning Daf Yomi at the beginning of the current cycle, I was preparing for an upcoming surgery and thought that learning the Daf would be something positive I could do each day during my recovery, even if I accomplished nothing else. I had no idea what a lifeline learning the Daf would turn out to be in so many ways.

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Laura Shechter

Lexington, MA, United States

I began Daf Yomi with the last cycle. I was inspired by the Hadran Siyum in Yerushalayim to continue with this cycle. I have learned Daf Yomi with Rabanit Michelle in over 25 countries on 6 continents ( missing Australia)

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Barbara Goldschlag

Silver Spring, MD, United States

I never thought I’d be able to do Daf Yomi till I saw the video of Hadran’s Siyum HaShas. Now, 2 years later, I’m about to participate in Siyum Seder Mo’ed with my Hadran community. It has been an incredible privilege to learn with Rabbanit Michelle and to get to know so many caring, talented and knowledgeable women. I look forward with great anticipation and excitement to learning Seder Nashim.

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Caroline Ben-Ari

Karmiel, Israel

In January 2020 on a Shabbaton to Baltimore I heard about the new cycle of Daf Yomi after the siyum celebration in NYC stadium. I started to read “ a daily dose of Talmud “ and really enjoyed it . It led me to google “ do Orthodox women study Talmud? “ and found HADRAN! Since then I listen to the podcast every morning, participate in classes and siyum. I love to learn, this is amazing! Thank you

Sandrine Simons
Sandrine Simons

Atlanta, United States

After reading the book, “ If All The Seas Were Ink “ by Ileana Kurshan I started studying Talmud. I searched and studied with several teachers until I found Michelle Farber. I have been studying with her for two years. I look forward every day to learn from her.

Janine Rubens
Janine Rubens

Virginia, United States

While vacationing in San Diego, Rabbi Leah Herz asked if I’d be interested in being in hevruta with her to learn Daf Yomi through Hadran. Why not? I had loved learning Gemara in college in 1971 but hadn’t returned. With the onset of covid, Daf Yomi and Rabbanit Michelle centered me each day. Thank-you for helping me grow and enter this amazing world of learning.
Meryll Page
Meryll Page

Minneapolis, MN, United States

I had no formal learning in Talmud until I began my studies in the Joint Program where in 1976 I was one of the few, if not the only, woman talmud major. It was superior training for law school and enabled me to approach my legal studies with a foundation . In 2018, I began daf yomi listening to Rabbanit MIchelle’s pod cast and my daily talmud studies are one of the highlights of my life.

Krivosha_Terri_Bio
Terri Krivosha

Minneapolis, United States

Last cycle, I listened to parts of various מסכתות. When the הדרן סיום was advertised, I listened to Michelle on נידה. I knew that בע”ה with the next cycle I was in (ב”נ). As I entered the סיום (early), I saw the signs and was overcome with emotion. I was randomly seated in the front row, and I cried many times that night. My choice to learn דף יומי was affirmed. It is one of the best I have made!

Miriam Tannenbaum
Miriam Tannenbaum

אפרת, Israel

Geri Goldstein got me started learning daf yomi when I was in Israel 2 years ago. It’s been a challenge and I’ve learned a lot though I’m sure I miss a lot. I quilt as I listen and I want to share what I’ve been working on.

Rebecca Stulberg
Rebecca Stulberg

Ottawa, Canada

I decided to give daf yomi a try when I heard about the siyum hashas in 2020. Once the pandemic hit, the daily commitment gave my days some much-needed structure. There have been times when I’ve felt like quitting- especially when encountering very technical details in the text. But then I tell myself, “Look how much you’ve done. You can’t stop now!” So I keep going & my Koren bookshelf grows…

Miriam Eckstein-Koas
Miriam Eckstein-Koas

Huntington, United States

I started learning the daf during Covid. I’d always wanted to learn Talmud but that wasn’t an option for girls in the small town I grew up in and I struggled to help my younger kids with Hebrew homework let alone read a Hebrew text. I decided to start small by listening to the daf podcast on the way to work each morning. Then I joined the Long Island WhatsApp group. Now I go to the siyyums.

IMG_4212
Shoshana Bazini

Long Island, United States

At almost 70 I am just beginning my journey with Talmud and Hadran. I began not late, but right when I was called to learn. It is never too late to begin! The understanding patience of staff and participants with more experience and knowledge has been fabulous. The joy of learning never stops and for me. It is a new life, a new light, a new depth of love of The Holy One, Blessed be He.
Deborah Hoffman-Wade
Deborah Hoffman-Wade

Richmond, CA, United States

Bava Batra 23

אָתוּ אוּמָּנֵי וְיָתְבִי תּוּתַיְיהוּ, וְאָתוּ עוֹרְבֵי אָכְלִי דְּמָא, וְסָלְקִי אַבֵּי תָאלֵי וּמַפְסְדִי תַּמְרֵי. אֲמַר לְהוּ רַב יוֹסֵף: אַפִּיקוּ לִי קוּרְקוּר מֵהָכָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וְהָא גְּרָמָא הוּא! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָכִי אָמַר רַב טוֹבִי בַּר מַתְנָה, זֹאת אוֹמֶרֶת: גְּרָמָא בְּנִיזָּקִין אָסוּר.

bloodletters would come and sit beneath them and perform their work there, and crows would come, eat the blood, and fly up to the palm trees and damage the dates. Rav Yosef said to the bloodletters: Remove these crowing birds from here, i.e., leave in order to avoid further damage. Abaye said to him: But it is an indirect action, as the bloodletters themselves are not damaging the dates. Rav Yosef said to him that Rav Tovi bar Mattana said as follows: That is to say that it is prohibited to cause even indirect damage.

וְהָא אַחְזֵיק [לְהוּ]! הָא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: אֵין חֲזָקָה לִנְזָקִין. וְלָאו אִיתְּמַר עֲלַהּ – רַב מָרִי אָמַר: בְּקוּטְרָא, וְרַב זְבִיד אָמַר: בְּבֵית הַכִּסֵּא?! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָנֵי, לְדִידִי – דַּאֲנִינָא דַּעְתַּאי, כִּי קוּטְרָא וּבֵית הַכִּסֵּא דָּמוּ לִי.

Abaye said to Rav Yosef: But they have established an acquired privilege to use that particular spot for their work. Rav Yosef replied: Doesn’t Rav Naḥman say that Rabba bar Avuh says: There is no acquired privilege of use in cases of damage, i.e., an established situation may not be allowed to continue in the event that damage results. Abaye inquired further: But wasn’t it stated with regard to that statement of Rav Naḥman that Rav Mari said it is referring specifically to smoke, and Rav Zevid said it is referring to a bathroom? In other words, this principle was stated specifically in the context of damage caused by these substances. Rav Yosef said to him: For me, as I am sensitive, these are like smoke and a bathroom to me, which is why I have the right to demand that the bloodletters leave.

מַתְנִי׳ מַרְחִיקִין אֶת הַשּׁוֹבָךְ מִן הָעִיר חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה. וְלֹא יַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם שׁוֹבָךְ בְּתוֹךְ שֶׁלּוֹ, אֶלָּא אִם כֵּן יֵשׁ לוֹ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה לְכׇל רוּחַ. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּית אַרְבַּעַת כּוֹרִין – מְלֹא שֶׁגֶר הַיּוֹנֶה. וְאִם לְקָחוֹ – אֲפִילּוּ בֵּית רוֹבַע, הֲרֵי הוּא בְּחֶזְקָתוֹ.

MISHNA: One must distance a dovecote fifty cubits from the city to prevent doves from eating seeds in the town. And a person should not establish a dovecote within his own property unless he has fifty cubits in each direction between the dovecote and the edge of his property. Rabbi Yehuda says that one must have surrounding the dovecote the area required for sowing four kor of seed on each side, which generally extends as far as a dove flies in a single flight. And if one bought the dovecote with the land, he has the acquired privilege of its use even if it has surrounding it only the area required for sowing a quarter-kav of seed [beit rova] around it, and he need not remove it from there.

גְּמָ׳ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – וְתוּ לָא? וּרְמִינְהִי: אֵין פּוֹרְסִין נִשְׁבִּין לְיוֹנִים, אֶלָּא אִם כֵּן הָיָה רָחוֹק מִן הַיִּשּׁוּב שְׁלֹשִׁים רִיס!

GEMARA: The Gemara asks: Must one distance a dovecote only fifty cubits from the city and no more? Is that as far as one can expect a dove to fly? And the Gemara raises a contradiction from a mishna (Bava Kamma 79b): One may spread out traps [neshavin] for doves only if this was performed at a distance of at least thirty ris, or four mil, which is eight thousand cubits, from any settled area, to avoid catching birds that belong to another. Apparently, doves fly a distance of thirty ris, whereas the mishna here states fifty cubits.

אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: מֵישָׁט שָׁיְיטִי טוּבָא, וּכְרֵסַיְיהוּ בַּחֲמִשִּׁים אַמְּתָא מַלְיָא. וּמֵישָׁט – שְׁלֹשִׁים רִיס וְתוּ לָא? וְהָתַנְיָא: וּבַיִּשּׁוּב – אֲפִילּוּ מֵאָה מִיל לֹא יִפְרוֹס! רַב יוֹסֵף אָמַר: בְּיִשּׁוּב כְּרָמִים.

Abaye said: Doves do fly great distances, which is why one must avoid catching others’ birds by keeping traps thirty ris away from settled areas. But as they eat along their way, their stomachs are filled after a distance of fifty cubits, at which point they will do no more damage to seeds. The Gemara asks: And do they fly only thirty ris and no more? But isn’t it taught in a baraita: And in a settled area, one may not spread out a trap even if the area under his control extends as far as one hundred mil in each direction? Rav Yosef says: That baraita is referring to a settled area of vineyards, i.e., a contiguous region of vineyards and gardens. In that case the doves pass from place to place even over a great distance.

רָבָא אָמַר: בְּיִשּׁוּב שׁוֹבָכִין. וְתִיפּוֹק לֵיהּ מִשּׁוּם שׁוֹבָכִין גּוּפַיְיהוּ! אִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: דִּידֵיהּ, וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: דְּגוֹי, וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: דְּהֶפְקֵר.

Rava said: The baraita is referring to a settled area of dovecotes, i.e., where many dovecotes are distributed. The Gemara asks: And according to Rava, let the tanna derive that one may not establish a new dovecote there due to the other dovecotes themselves, as he will trap doves belonging to others. The Gemara answers: If you wish, say that this is referring to his own dovecotes. And if you wish, say it is referring to the dovecotes of a gentile, whose property one is not obligated to protect from harm. And if you wish, say it is referring to ownerless dovecotes.

רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּית אַרְבַּעַת כּוֹרִין וְכוּ׳. אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא, וְאִיתֵּימָא רַב זְבִיד: זֹאת אוֹמֶרֶת, טוֹעֲנִין לְלוֹקֵחַ וְטוֹעֲנִין לְיוֹרֵשׁ.

§ Rabbi Yehuda says that one must have surrounding the dovecote the area required for sowing four kor of seed on each side, which is as far as a dove flies in a single flight. And if one bought the dovecote with the land, he has the acquired privilege of its use. Rav Pappa said, and some say it was Rav Zevid: That is to say that a court issues a claim on behalf of a buyer, and issues a claim on behalf of an heir. This is referring to the halakha of taking possession. If one has been physically in possession of an item for a period of time, generally three years, this serves as proof that he is in fact the legal owner. This possession must be accompanied by a claim of how one acquired the item; he cannot simply state that no one protested his possessing the item for three years. Rav Pappa is saying that the court will lodge a claim on behalf of a buyer or heir that they acquired the item from someone who was the owner, just as here the court assumes that the previous owner of the dovecote came to an agreement with his neighbors that he may use it.

יוֹרֵשׁ – תְּנֵינָא: הַבָּא מִשּׁוּם יְרוּשָּׁה – אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ טַעֲנָה! לוֹקֵחַ אִיצְטְרִיכָא לֵיהּ. לוֹקֵחַ נָמֵי תְּנֵינָא: לָקַח חָצֵר וּבָהּ זִיזִין וּגְזוּזְטְרָאוֹת – הֲרֵי זֶה בְּחֶזְקָתָהּ!

The Gemara asks: Why is it necessary for Rav Pappa to state this halakha? We already learn this with regard to an heir (41a): In the case of land that comes as an inheritance, one is not required to make a claim as to how the land came into his benefactor’s possession when one’s ownership of the land is challenged. The Gemara answers: It was necessary for him to state this halakha with regard to a buyer. The Gemara asks: With regard to a buyer as well, we learn this in a mishna (60a): If one bought a courtyard in which there are projections and balconies [ugzuztraot] extending into the public domain, this courtyard retains its presumptive status, i.e., the owner has the acquired privilege of their use, and the court does not demand their removal.

צְרִיכָא; דְּאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן הָתָם גַּבֵּי רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים – דְּאֵימוֹר כּוֹנֵס לְתוֹךְ שֶׁלּוֹ הוּא, אִי נָמֵי אַחוֹלֵי אַחוּל בְּנֵי רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים גַּבֵּיהּ; אֲבָל הָכָא – לָא;

The Gemara answers: It was necessary for the tanna of the mishna to state this halakha in both cases, as, if he had taught us this only there, in that mishna, one might have said that it applies specifically with regard to a protrusion or a balcony that extends into the public domain, as one can say that perhaps it is a case where the seller had drawn back into his own land before adding the projections and balconies, and they in fact do not extend into the public thoroughfare. Alternatively, perhaps the public waived their right to him and allowed him to place them over the common area, as otherwise they would have protested. But here, where he causes damage to private individuals, one might have thought that the buyer does not have a privilege of use, and therefore the mishna teaches us otherwise.

וְאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן הָכָא, דְּכֵיוָן דְּיָחִיד הוּא – אֵימָא: פַּיּוֹסֵי פַּיְּיסֵיהּ, אִי נָמֵי אַחוֹלֵי אַחֵיל גַּבֵּיהּ; אֲבָל רַבִּים, מַאן פַּיֵּיס וּמַאן שָׁבֵיק – אֵימָא לָא; צְרִיכָא.

And if he had taught this only in the mishna here, one might say that since the party potentially suffering damage is an individual, the owner of the dovecote appeased his neighbor by paying him to permit him to construct it. Alternatively, the neighbor might have waived his right to him. But in a case where damage is caused to the public, one might argue: Whom did he appease, and who yielded to him? Consequently, one might say that the purchaser does not retain the privilege of use. Therefore, it is necessary for the tanna to state the halakha in this case as well.

הֲרֵי הוּא בְּחֶזְקָתוֹ. וְהָא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: אֵין חֲזָקָה לִנְזָקִין! רַב מָרִי אָמַר: בְּקוּטְרָא, רַב זְבִיד אָמַר: בְּבֵית הַכִּסֵּא.

§ The mishna teaches that if one bought the dovecote with the land, he has the acquired privilege of use. The Gemara asks: But doesn’t Rav Naḥman say that Rabba bar Avuh says: There is no acquired privilege of use for cases of damage? Why should he retain his acquired privilege of use when his doves cause damage? Rav Mari said: Rav Naḥman’s statement is referring specifically to smoke, which causes serious damage, and that is why it overrides an acquired privilege. Rav Zevid said: It is referring to a bathroom, whose odor is particularly strong.

מַתְנִי׳ נִיפּוּל הַנִּמְצָא בְּתוֹךְ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל בַּעַל הַשּׁוֹבָךְ. חוּץ מֵחֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל מוֹצְאוֹ. נִמְצָא בֵּין שְׁנֵי שׁוֹבָכוֹת; קָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ. קָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ. מֶחֱצָה עַל מֶחֱצָה – שְׁנֵיהֶם יַחְלוֹקוּ.

MISHNA: With regard to a dove chick [nippul] that was found within fifty cubits of a dovecote, it belongs to the owner of the dovecote. If it was found beyond fifty cubits from a dovecote, it belongs to its finder. In a case where it was found between two dovecotes, if it was close to this one, it belongs to the owner of this dovecote; if it was close to that one, it belongs to the owner of that dovecote. If it was half and half, i.e., equidistant from the two dovecotes, the two owners divide the value of the chick.

גְּמָ׳ אָמַר רַבִּי חֲנִינָא: רוֹב וְקָרוֹב – הוֹלְכִין אַחַר הָרוֹב; וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּרוּבָּא דְּאוֹרָיְיתָא וְקוּרְבָא דְּאוֹרָיְיתָא – אֲפִילּוּ הָכִי, רוּבָּא עֲדִיף.

GEMARA: Rabbi Ḥanina says: When resolving an uncertainty with regard to the halakhic status of an item, e.g., a found item, if the status of the majority of like items indicates that it has one status but the item in question is proximate to a source that indicates otherwise, one follows the majority. And even though the halakha of majority applies by Torah law and the halakha of proximity also applies by Torah law, even so the majority is preferable.

מֵתִיב רַבִּי זֵירָא: ״וְהָיָה הָעִיר הַקְּרֹבָה אֶל הֶחָלָל״ – וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּאִיכָּא אַחֲרִיתִי דִּנְפִישָׁא מִינַּהּ!

Rabbi Zeira raises an objection from the Torah’s statement with regard to a murder victim where the identity of the murderer is unknown. In a case of this kind, the court measures the distances between the corpse and the nearby towns, in order to determine which town is closest and must consequently perform the rite of the heifer whose neck is broken. The verse states: “And it shall be, that the city that is nearest to the slain man, the Elders of that city shall take a heifer of the herd…and shall break the heifer’s neck” (Deuteronomy 21:3–4). And this town is chosen even though there might be another town that is larger in population than it. According to Rabbi Ḥanina, in a case of this kind one should follow the majority.

בִּדְלֵיכָּא. וְלֵיזִיל בָּתַר רוּבָּא דְעָלְמָא! בְּיוֹשֶׁבֶת בֵּין הֶהָרִים.

The Gemara answers: This verse is referring to a situation where there is no other town that is larger than that one. The Gemara asks: And still, if one follows the majority, why should the court follow the closest city? Let us follow the majority of the world, as most people are found elsewhere. The Gemara answers: This is referring to a case where the city sits in isolation between mountains, and therefore it is unlikely that the murderer arrived from elsewhere.

תְּנַן: נִיפּוּל הַנִּמְצָא בְּתוֹךְ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל בַּעַל הַשּׁוֹבָךְ; וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּאִיכָּא אַחֲרִינָא דִּנְפִישׁ מִינֵּיהּ! בִּדְלֵיכָּא.

The Gemara continues to discuss the issue of majority as opposed to proximity. We learned in the mishna: With regard to a dove chick that was found within fifty cubits of a dovecote, it belongs to the owner of the dovecote. And as the mishna does not make a distinction between different cases, it indicates that this is the halakha even though there is another dovecote that is larger than the proximate one in terms of number of birds. This shows that closeness, not majority, is the determining factor. The Gemara answers: This is referring to a case where there is no other dovecote in the area.

אִי הָכִי, אֵימָא סֵיפָא: חוּץ מֵחֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – הֲרֵי הוּא שֶׁל מוֹצְאוֹ. וְאִי דְּלֵיכָּא, וַדַּאי מֵהָהוּא נְפַל! הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן – בִּמְדַדֶּה, דְּאָמַר רַב עוּקְבָא בַּר חָמָא: כׇּל הַמְדַדֶּה – אֵין מְדַדֶּה יוֹתֵר מֵחֲמִשִּׁים.

The Gemara asks: If so, say the latter clause of the mishna: If it was found beyond fifty cubits from a dovecote, it belongs to its finder. And if there is no other dovecote in the area, it certainly fell from that dovecote. How, then, can it be given to the finder? The Gemara answers: With what are we dealing here? We are dealing with a chick that hops from place to place but does not yet fly. As Rav Ukva bar Ḥama says: With regard to any creature that hops, it does not hop more than fifty cubits. Consequently, any bird found within fifty cubits of a dovecote is assumed to have come from there. If it is farther away than that, it likely came from elsewhere or was dropped by travelers.

בָּעֵי רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: רַגְלוֹ אַחַת בְּתוֹךְ חֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה, וְרַגְלוֹ אַחַת חוּץ מֵחֲמִשִּׁים אַמָּה – מַהוּ? וְעַל דָּא אַפְּקוּהוּ לְרַבִּי יִרְמְיָה מִבֵּי מִדְרְשָׁא.

Rabbi Yirmeya raises a dilemma: If one leg of the chick was within fifty cubits of the dovecote, and one leg was beyond fifty cubits, what is the halakha? The Gemara comments: And it was for his question about this far-fetched scenario that they removed Rabbi Yirmeya from the study hall, as he was apparently wasting the Sages’ time.

תָּא שְׁמַע: נִמְצָא בֵּין שְׁנֵי שׁוֹבָכוֹת; קָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ, וְקָרוֹב לָזֶה – שֶׁלּוֹ; וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּחַד מִינַּיְיהוּ נְפִישׁ מֵחַבְרֵיהּ! הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן – שֶׁשְּׁנֵיהֶן שָׁוִין. וְלֵיזִיל בָּתַר רוּבָּא דְעָלְמָא! הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן –

The Gemara further suggests: Come and hear the mishna: In a case where it was found between two dovecotes, if it was close to this one, it belongs to the owner of this dovecote; if it was close to that one, it belongs to the owner of that dovecote. The Gemara comments: And this is the halakha even though one of them is greater in number of birds than the other one. Apparently, one rules based on proximity, not majority. The Gemara explains: With what are we dealing here? We are dealing with a situation where the two dovecotes are equal in size. The Gemara asks: But even so, why should one follow the closer dovecote? Let us follow the majority of the world, as there are many other dovecotes besides these, and the number of doves they contain is greater. The Gemara responds: With what are we dealing here?

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