Search

Bava Batra 34

Want to dedicate learning? Get started here:

podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




Summary

The Gemara rejects the comparison of the case that came before Abaye where there was only one witness to the case of the naska (silver bricks) of Rabbi Abba.

There was a case in which two people claimed ownership over a boat and the law of “may the stronger one prevail (kol d’alim g’var),” was applicable. But one of them asked the court to seize the property to prevent that law from kicking in to buy time in which he could find evidence to support his claim. Rav Huna and Rav Yehuda disagreed about whether the court could intervene. If one were to rule that the court does seize it, can they release it if no further proof is brought?

There was a case where two claimed ownership of land and each claimed they inherited it from their fathers, but neither could prove it. Rav Nachman ruled that the stronger one prevails.

 

Today’s daily daf tools:

Bava Batra 34

הֵיכִי נִידַיְּינוּהּ דַּיָּינֵי לְהַאי דִּינָא? לִישַׁלֵּם? לֵיכָּא תְּרֵי סָהֲדִי! לִיפְטְרֵיהּ? אִיכָּא חַד סָהֲדָא! לִישְׁתְּבַע, הָא אָמַר מִיחְטָף חַטְפַהּ, וְכֵיוָן דְּאָמַר דְּחַטְפַהּ – הָוֵה לֵיהּ כְּגַזְלָן!

How should judges judge for this judgment? There are reasons not to implement all potential rulings. If they were to order the one who snatched the metal to pay for it, that would not be the correct ruling, because there are not two witnesses who saw him snatch it, and the court does not force payment based on the testimony of one witness. If they were to accept his claim and exempt him entirely, that would not be the correct ruling, because there is one witness who testified against him. If they were to order him to take an oath, which is the usual response to counter the testimony of one witness, didn’t he say that he did in fact snatch it, and since he said that he snatched it and there is no proof that it is his, he is like a robber, and the court does not allow a robber to take an oath.

אֲמַר לְהוּ רַבִּי אַבָּא: הָוֵי מְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע, וְכׇל הַמְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע – מְשַׁלֵּם.

Rabbi Abba said to them: He is one who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath, and anyone who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath is liable to pay. The Rabbis who were studying before Abaye thought that the case of the witness to the years of profiting and Rabbi Abba’s case are similar, in that since the possessor is unable to take an oath to refute the witness, as he concedes that he profited from the land for those years, he should have to pay for his consumption of the produce.

אֲמַר לְהוּ אַבָּיֵי: מִי דָּמֵי?! הָתָם סָהֲדָא לְאוֹרוֹעֵי קָאָתֵי – כִּי אָתֵי אַחֲרִינָא בַּהֲדֵיהּ, מַפְּקִינַן לַהּ מִינֵּיהּ; הָכָא לְסַיּוֹעֵי קָא אָתֵי – כִּי אֲתָא אַחֲרִינָא, מוֹקְמִינַן לַהּ בִּידֵיהּ!

Abaye said to these Rabbis: Are these two cases comparable? There, in Rabbi Abba’s case, the witness is coming to undermine the position of the one who snatched the metal. This can be seen from the fact that when it would be the case that another witness comes to court and testifies with the first witness, we would take away the piece of metal from the one who snatched it. By contrast, here, in the case of the individual who brought one witness to attest to his profiting from the land, the witness is coming to support the possessor. This can be seen from the fact that when another witness would come to court and testify with the first witness, we would establish the land in his possession. Therefore, the testimony of the one witness does not render the one who profited from the land liable to take an oath.

אֶלָּא אִי דָּמְיָא הָא דְּרַבִּי אַבָּא – לְחַד סָהֲדָא וּלְתַרְתֵּי שְׁנֵי – וּלְפֵירֵי.

Rather, if this case of Rabbi Abba is comparable to a case such as this, it is comparable to a case where there is one witness and he testifies to someone’s profiting from land for two years, and the comparison is in terms of payment for the produce that he consumed. In terms of the consumption of the produce, two witnesses would have rendered the possessor liable to pay, as consumption of the produce for only two years does not establish the presumption of ownership. Therefore, one witness renders him liable to take an oath. Since he himself claimed that he profited from the land as the witness testified, he cannot take an oath to contest the testimony. Therefore, he would have to pay for the produce.

הָהוּא אַרְבָּא דַּהֲווֹ מִינְּצוּ עֲלַהּ בֵּי תְרֵי, הַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״, וְהַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״. אֲתָא חַד מִינַּיְיהוּ לְבֵי דִינָא, וְאָמַר: תִּיפְסוּהָ אַדְּמַיְיתֵינָא סָהֲדֵי דְּדִידִי הִיא. תָּפְסִינַן, אוֹ לָא תָּפְסִינַן? רַב הוּנָא אָמַר: תָּפְסִינַן. רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא תָּפְסִינַן.

§ The Gemara relates: There was a certain boat that two people were quarreling about with regard to its ownership. This one said: It is mine, and that one also said: It is mine. One of them came to court and said: Seize it until I am able to bring witnesses that it is mine. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we seize it or do we not seize it? Rav Huna said: We seize it. Rav Yehuda said: We do not seize it, as there is no cause for the court to intervene.

אֲזַל, וְלָא אַשְׁכַּח סָהֲדֵי. אֲמַר לְהוּ: אַפְּקוּהָ, וְכֹל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. מַפְּקִינַן, אוֹ לָא מַפְּקִינַן? רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא מַפְּקִינַן. רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: מַפְּקִינַן. וְהִלְכְתָא: לָא תָּפְסִינַן, וְהֵיכָא דִּתְפַס – לָא מַפְּקִינַן.

The court seized the boat. The one who requested of the court to seize it went to seek witnesses, but did not find witnesses. He then said to the court: Release the boat, and whoever is stronger prevails, as this is the ruling in a case where there is neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we release it or do we not release it? Rav Yehuda said: We do not release it. Rav Pappa said: We release it. The Gemara concludes: And the halakha is that we do not seize property in a case where ownership is uncertain, and where it was seized, we do not release it.

זֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״, וְזֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״ – אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן: כֹּל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. וּמַאי שְׁנָא מִשְּׁנֵי שְׁטָרוֹת הַיּוֹצְאִין בְּיוֹם אֶחָד –

There was an incident where two people dispute the ownership of property. This one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them, and that one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them. There was neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. Rav Naḥman said: Whoever is stronger prevails. The Gemara asks: And in what way is this case different from the case where two people produce two deeds of sale or gift for the same field that are issued on one day,

Today’s daily daf tools:

Delve Deeper

Broaden your understanding of the topics on this daf with classes and podcasts from top women Talmud scholars.

For the Beyond the Daf shiurim offered in Hebrew, see here.

New to Talmud?

Check out our resources designed to help you navigate a page of Talmud – and study at the pace, level and style that fits you. 

The Hadran Women’s Tapestry

Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories. 

I began daf yomi in January 2020 with Brachot. I had made aliya 6 months before, and one of my post-aliya goals was to complete a full cycle. As a life-long Tanach teacher, I wanted to swim from one side of the Yam shel Torah to the other. Daf yomi was also my sanity through COVID. It was the way to marking the progression of time, and feel that I could grow and accomplish while time stopped.

Leah Herzog
Leah Herzog

Givat Zev, Israel

Ive been learning Gmara since 5th grade and always loved it. Have always wanted to do Daf Yomi and now with Michelle Farber’s online classes it made it much easier to do! Really enjoying the experience thank you!!

Lisa Lawrence
Lisa Lawrence

Neve Daniel, Israel

It happened without intent (so am I yotzei?!) – I watched the women’s siyum live and was so moved by it that the next morning, I tuned in to Rabbanit Michelle’s shiur, and here I am, still learning every day, over 2 years later. Some days it all goes over my head, but others I grasp onto an idea or a story, and I ‘get it’ and that’s the best feeling in the world. So proud to be a Hadran learner.

Jeanne Yael Klempner
Jeanne Yael Klempner

Zichron Yaakov, Israel

I tried Daf Yomi in the middle of the last cycle after realizing I could listen to Michelle’s shiurim online. It lasted all of 2 days! Then the new cycle started just days before my father’s first yahrzeit and my youngest daughter’s bat mitzvah. It seemed the right time for a new beginning. My family, friends, colleagues are immensely supportive!

Catriella-Freedman-jpeg
Catriella Freedman

Zichron Yaakov, Israel

Hearing and reading about the siyumim at the completion of the 13 th cycle Daf Yomi asked our shul rabbi about starting the Daf – he directed me to another shiur in town he thought would allow a woman to join, and so I did! Love seeing the sources for the Divrei Torah I’ve been hearing for the past decades of living an observant life and raising 5 children .

Jill Felder
Jill Felder

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States

I started my journey on the day I realized that the Siyum was happening in Yerushalayim and I was missing out. What? I told myself. How could I have not known about this? How can I have missed out on this opportunity? I decided that moment, I would start Daf Yomi and Nach Yomi the very next day. I am so grateful to Hadran. I am changed forever because I learn Gemara with women. Thank you.

Linda Brownstein
Linda Brownstein

Mitspe, Israel

I had no formal learning in Talmud until I began my studies in the Joint Program where in 1976 I was one of the few, if not the only, woman talmud major. It was superior training for law school and enabled me to approach my legal studies with a foundation . In 2018, I began daf yomi listening to Rabbanit MIchelle’s pod cast and my daily talmud studies are one of the highlights of my life.

Krivosha_Terri_Bio
Terri Krivosha

Minneapolis, United States

I started learning on January 5, 2020. When I complete the 7+ year cycle I will be 70 years old. I had been intimidated by those who said that I needed to study Talmud in a traditional way with a chevruta, but I decided the learning was more important to me than the method. Thankful for Daf Yomi for Women helping me catch up when I fall behind, and also being able to celebrate with each Siyum!

Pamela Elisheva
Pamela Elisheva

Bakersfield, United States

What a great experience to learn with Rabbanit Michelle Farber. I began with this cycle in January 2020 and have been comforted by the consistency and energy of this process throughout the isolation period of Covid. Week by week, I feel like I am exploring a treasure chest with sparkling gems and puzzling antiquities. The hunt is exhilarating.

Marian Frankston
Marian Frankston

Pennsylvania, United States

I started learning daf yomi at the beginning of this cycle. As the pandemic evolved, it’s been so helpful to me to have this discipline every morning to listen to the daf podcast after I’ve read the daf; learning about the relationships between the rabbis and the ways they were constructing our Jewish religion after the destruction of the Temple. I’m grateful to be on this journey!

Mona Fishbane
Mona Fishbane

Teaneck NJ, United States

Inspired by Hadran’s first Siyum ha Shas L’Nashim two years ago, I began daf yomi right after for the next cycle. As to this extraordinary journey together with Hadran..as TS Eliot wrote “We must not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we began and to know the place for the first time.

Susan Handelman
Susan Handelman

Jerusalem, Israel

I’ve been studying Talmud since the ’90s, and decided to take on Daf Yomi two years ago. I wanted to attempt the challenge of a day-to-day, very Jewish activity. Some days are so interesting and some days are so boring. But I’m still here.
Wendy Rozov
Wendy Rozov

Phoenix, AZ, United States

In my Shana bet at Migdal Oz I attended the Hadran siyum hash”as. Witnessing so many women so passionate about their Torah learning and connection to God, I knew I had to begin with the coming cycle. My wedding (June 24) was two weeks before the siyum of mesechet yoma so I went a little ahead and was able to make a speech and siyum at my kiseh kallah on my wedding day!

Sharona Guggenheim Plumb
Sharona Guggenheim Plumb

Givat Shmuel, Israel

I started learning after the siyum hashas for women and my daily learning has been a constant over the last two years. It grounded me during the chaos of Corona while providing me with a community of fellow learners. The Daf can be challenging but it’s filled with life’s lessons, struggles and hope for a better world. It’s not about the destination but rather about the journey. Thank you Hadran!

Dena Lehrman
Dena Lehrman

אפרת, Israel

The start of my journey is not so exceptional. I was between jobs and wanted to be sure to get out every day (this was before corona). Well, I was hooked after about a month and from then on only looked for work-from-home jobs so I could continue learning the Daf. Daf has been a constant in my life, though hurricanes, death, illness/injury, weddings. My new friends are Rav, Shmuel, Ruth, Joanna.
Judi Felber
Judi Felber

Raanana, Israel

What a great experience to learn with Rabbanit Michelle Farber. I began with this cycle in January 2020 and have been comforted by the consistency and energy of this process throughout the isolation period of Covid. Week by week, I feel like I am exploring a treasure chest with sparkling gems and puzzling antiquities. The hunt is exhilarating.

Marian Frankston
Marian Frankston

Pennsylvania, United States

In early 2020, I began the process of a stem cell transplant. The required extreme isolation forced me to leave work and normal life but gave me time to delve into Jewish text study. I did not feel isolated. I began Daf Yomi at the start of this cycle, with family members joining me online from my hospital room. I’ve used my newly granted time to to engage, grow and connect through this learning.

Reena Slovin
Reena Slovin

Worcester, United States

After being so inspired by the siyum shas two years ago, I began tentatively learning daf yomi, like Rabbanut Michelle kept saying – taking one daf at a time. I’m still taking it one daf at a time, one masechet at a time, but I’m loving it and am still so inspired by Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran community, and yes – I am proud to be finishing Seder Mo’ed.

Caroline Graham-Ofstein
Caroline Graham-Ofstein

Bet Shemesh, Israel

I had dreamed of doing daf yomi since I had my first serious Talmud class 18 years ago at Pardes with Rahel Berkovitz, and then a couple of summers with Leah Rosenthal. There is no way I would be able to do it without another wonderful teacher, Michelle, and the Hadran organization. I wake up and am excited to start each day with the next daf.

Beth Elster
Beth Elster

Irvine, United States

Last cycle, I listened to parts of various מסכתות. When the הדרן סיום was advertised, I listened to Michelle on נידה. I knew that בע”ה with the next cycle I was in (ב”נ). As I entered the סיום (early), I saw the signs and was overcome with emotion. I was randomly seated in the front row, and I cried many times that night. My choice to learn דף יומי was affirmed. It is one of the best I have made!

Miriam Tannenbaum
Miriam Tannenbaum

אפרת, Israel

Bava Batra 34

הֵיכִי נִידַיְּינוּהּ דַּיָּינֵי לְהַאי דִּינָא? לִישַׁלֵּם? לֵיכָּא תְּרֵי סָהֲדִי! לִיפְטְרֵיהּ? אִיכָּא חַד סָהֲדָא! לִישְׁתְּבַע, הָא אָמַר מִיחְטָף חַטְפַהּ, וְכֵיוָן דְּאָמַר דְּחַטְפַהּ – הָוֵה לֵיהּ כְּגַזְלָן!

How should judges judge for this judgment? There are reasons not to implement all potential rulings. If they were to order the one who snatched the metal to pay for it, that would not be the correct ruling, because there are not two witnesses who saw him snatch it, and the court does not force payment based on the testimony of one witness. If they were to accept his claim and exempt him entirely, that would not be the correct ruling, because there is one witness who testified against him. If they were to order him to take an oath, which is the usual response to counter the testimony of one witness, didn’t he say that he did in fact snatch it, and since he said that he snatched it and there is no proof that it is his, he is like a robber, and the court does not allow a robber to take an oath.

אֲמַר לְהוּ רַבִּי אַבָּא: הָוֵי מְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע, וְכׇל הַמְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע – מְשַׁלֵּם.

Rabbi Abba said to them: He is one who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath, and anyone who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath is liable to pay. The Rabbis who were studying before Abaye thought that the case of the witness to the years of profiting and Rabbi Abba’s case are similar, in that since the possessor is unable to take an oath to refute the witness, as he concedes that he profited from the land for those years, he should have to pay for his consumption of the produce.

אֲמַר לְהוּ אַבָּיֵי: מִי דָּמֵי?! הָתָם סָהֲדָא לְאוֹרוֹעֵי קָאָתֵי – כִּי אָתֵי אַחֲרִינָא בַּהֲדֵיהּ, מַפְּקִינַן לַהּ מִינֵּיהּ; הָכָא לְסַיּוֹעֵי קָא אָתֵי – כִּי אֲתָא אַחֲרִינָא, מוֹקְמִינַן לַהּ בִּידֵיהּ!

Abaye said to these Rabbis: Are these two cases comparable? There, in Rabbi Abba’s case, the witness is coming to undermine the position of the one who snatched the metal. This can be seen from the fact that when it would be the case that another witness comes to court and testifies with the first witness, we would take away the piece of metal from the one who snatched it. By contrast, here, in the case of the individual who brought one witness to attest to his profiting from the land, the witness is coming to support the possessor. This can be seen from the fact that when another witness would come to court and testify with the first witness, we would establish the land in his possession. Therefore, the testimony of the one witness does not render the one who profited from the land liable to take an oath.

אֶלָּא אִי דָּמְיָא הָא דְּרַבִּי אַבָּא – לְחַד סָהֲדָא וּלְתַרְתֵּי שְׁנֵי – וּלְפֵירֵי.

Rather, if this case of Rabbi Abba is comparable to a case such as this, it is comparable to a case where there is one witness and he testifies to someone’s profiting from land for two years, and the comparison is in terms of payment for the produce that he consumed. In terms of the consumption of the produce, two witnesses would have rendered the possessor liable to pay, as consumption of the produce for only two years does not establish the presumption of ownership. Therefore, one witness renders him liable to take an oath. Since he himself claimed that he profited from the land as the witness testified, he cannot take an oath to contest the testimony. Therefore, he would have to pay for the produce.

הָהוּא אַרְבָּא דַּהֲווֹ מִינְּצוּ עֲלַהּ בֵּי תְרֵי, הַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״, וְהַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״. אֲתָא חַד מִינַּיְיהוּ לְבֵי דִינָא, וְאָמַר: תִּיפְסוּהָ אַדְּמַיְיתֵינָא סָהֲדֵי דְּדִידִי הִיא. תָּפְסִינַן, אוֹ לָא תָּפְסִינַן? רַב הוּנָא אָמַר: תָּפְסִינַן. רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא תָּפְסִינַן.

§ The Gemara relates: There was a certain boat that two people were quarreling about with regard to its ownership. This one said: It is mine, and that one also said: It is mine. One of them came to court and said: Seize it until I am able to bring witnesses that it is mine. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we seize it or do we not seize it? Rav Huna said: We seize it. Rav Yehuda said: We do not seize it, as there is no cause for the court to intervene.

אֲזַל, וְלָא אַשְׁכַּח סָהֲדֵי. אֲמַר לְהוּ: אַפְּקוּהָ, וְכֹל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. מַפְּקִינַן, אוֹ לָא מַפְּקִינַן? רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא מַפְּקִינַן. רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: מַפְּקִינַן. וְהִלְכְתָא: לָא תָּפְסִינַן, וְהֵיכָא דִּתְפַס – לָא מַפְּקִינַן.

The court seized the boat. The one who requested of the court to seize it went to seek witnesses, but did not find witnesses. He then said to the court: Release the boat, and whoever is stronger prevails, as this is the ruling in a case where there is neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we release it or do we not release it? Rav Yehuda said: We do not release it. Rav Pappa said: We release it. The Gemara concludes: And the halakha is that we do not seize property in a case where ownership is uncertain, and where it was seized, we do not release it.

זֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״, וְזֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״ – אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן: כֹּל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. וּמַאי שְׁנָא מִשְּׁנֵי שְׁטָרוֹת הַיּוֹצְאִין בְּיוֹם אֶחָד –

There was an incident where two people dispute the ownership of property. This one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them, and that one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them. There was neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. Rav Naḥman said: Whoever is stronger prevails. The Gemara asks: And in what way is this case different from the case where two people produce two deeds of sale or gift for the same field that are issued on one day,

Want to follow content and continue where you left off?

Create an account today to track your progress, mark what you’ve learned, and follow the shiurim that speak to you.

Clear all items from this list?

This will remove ALL the items in this section. You will lose any progress or history connected to them. This is irreversible.

Cancel
Yes, clear all

Are you sure you want to delete this item?

You will lose any progress or history connected to this item.

Cancel
Yes, delete