Search

Bava Batra 34

Want to dedicate learning? Get started here:

podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




Summary

The Gemara rejects the comparison of the case that came before Abaye where there was only one witness to the case of the naska (silver bricks) of Rabbi Abba.

There was a case in which two people claimed ownership over a boat and the law of “may the stronger one prevail (kol d’alim g’var),” was applicable. But one of them asked the court to seize the property to prevent that law from kicking in to buy time in which he could find evidence to support his claim. Rav Huna and Rav Yehuda disagreed about whether the court could intervene. If one were to rule that the court does seize it, can they release it if no further proof is brought?

There was a case where two claimed ownership of land and each claimed they inherited it from their fathers, but neither could prove it. Rav Nachman ruled that the stronger one prevails.

 

Today’s daily daf tools:

Bava Batra 34

הֵיכִי נִידַיְּינוּהּ דַּיָּינֵי לְהַאי דִּינָא? לִישַׁלֵּם? לֵיכָּא תְּרֵי סָהֲדִי! לִיפְטְרֵיהּ? אִיכָּא חַד סָהֲדָא! לִישְׁתְּבַע, הָא אָמַר מִיחְטָף חַטְפַהּ, וְכֵיוָן דְּאָמַר דְּחַטְפַהּ – הָוֵה לֵיהּ כְּגַזְלָן!

How should judges judge for this judgment? There are reasons not to implement all potential rulings. If they were to order the one who snatched the metal to pay for it, that would not be the correct ruling, because there are not two witnesses who saw him snatch it, and the court does not force payment based on the testimony of one witness. If they were to accept his claim and exempt him entirely, that would not be the correct ruling, because there is one witness who testified against him. If they were to order him to take an oath, which is the usual response to counter the testimony of one witness, didn’t he say that he did in fact snatch it, and since he said that he snatched it and there is no proof that it is his, he is like a robber, and the court does not allow a robber to take an oath.

אֲמַר לְהוּ רַבִּי אַבָּא: הָוֵי מְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע, וְכׇל הַמְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע – מְשַׁלֵּם.

Rabbi Abba said to them: He is one who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath, and anyone who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath is liable to pay. The Rabbis who were studying before Abaye thought that the case of the witness to the years of profiting and Rabbi Abba’s case are similar, in that since the possessor is unable to take an oath to refute the witness, as he concedes that he profited from the land for those years, he should have to pay for his consumption of the produce.

אֲמַר לְהוּ אַבָּיֵי: מִי דָּמֵי?! הָתָם סָהֲדָא לְאוֹרוֹעֵי קָאָתֵי – כִּי אָתֵי אַחֲרִינָא בַּהֲדֵיהּ, מַפְּקִינַן לַהּ מִינֵּיהּ; הָכָא לְסַיּוֹעֵי קָא אָתֵי – כִּי אֲתָא אַחֲרִינָא, מוֹקְמִינַן לַהּ בִּידֵיהּ!

Abaye said to these Rabbis: Are these two cases comparable? There, in Rabbi Abba’s case, the witness is coming to undermine the position of the one who snatched the metal. This can be seen from the fact that when it would be the case that another witness comes to court and testifies with the first witness, we would take away the piece of metal from the one who snatched it. By contrast, here, in the case of the individual who brought one witness to attest to his profiting from the land, the witness is coming to support the possessor. This can be seen from the fact that when another witness would come to court and testify with the first witness, we would establish the land in his possession. Therefore, the testimony of the one witness does not render the one who profited from the land liable to take an oath.

אֶלָּא אִי דָּמְיָא הָא דְּרַבִּי אַבָּא – לְחַד סָהֲדָא וּלְתַרְתֵּי שְׁנֵי – וּלְפֵירֵי.

Rather, if this case of Rabbi Abba is comparable to a case such as this, it is comparable to a case where there is one witness and he testifies to someone’s profiting from land for two years, and the comparison is in terms of payment for the produce that he consumed. In terms of the consumption of the produce, two witnesses would have rendered the possessor liable to pay, as consumption of the produce for only two years does not establish the presumption of ownership. Therefore, one witness renders him liable to take an oath. Since he himself claimed that he profited from the land as the witness testified, he cannot take an oath to contest the testimony. Therefore, he would have to pay for the produce.

הָהוּא אַרְבָּא דַּהֲווֹ מִינְּצוּ עֲלַהּ בֵּי תְרֵי, הַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״, וְהַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״. אֲתָא חַד מִינַּיְיהוּ לְבֵי דִינָא, וְאָמַר: תִּיפְסוּהָ אַדְּמַיְיתֵינָא סָהֲדֵי דְּדִידִי הִיא. תָּפְסִינַן, אוֹ לָא תָּפְסִינַן? רַב הוּנָא אָמַר: תָּפְסִינַן. רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא תָּפְסִינַן.

§ The Gemara relates: There was a certain boat that two people were quarreling about with regard to its ownership. This one said: It is mine, and that one also said: It is mine. One of them came to court and said: Seize it until I am able to bring witnesses that it is mine. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we seize it or do we not seize it? Rav Huna said: We seize it. Rav Yehuda said: We do not seize it, as there is no cause for the court to intervene.

אֲזַל, וְלָא אַשְׁכַּח סָהֲדֵי. אֲמַר לְהוּ: אַפְּקוּהָ, וְכֹל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. מַפְּקִינַן, אוֹ לָא מַפְּקִינַן? רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא מַפְּקִינַן. רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: מַפְּקִינַן. וְהִלְכְתָא: לָא תָּפְסִינַן, וְהֵיכָא דִּתְפַס – לָא מַפְּקִינַן.

The court seized the boat. The one who requested of the court to seize it went to seek witnesses, but did not find witnesses. He then said to the court: Release the boat, and whoever is stronger prevails, as this is the ruling in a case where there is neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we release it or do we not release it? Rav Yehuda said: We do not release it. Rav Pappa said: We release it. The Gemara concludes: And the halakha is that we do not seize property in a case where ownership is uncertain, and where it was seized, we do not release it.

זֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״, וְזֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״ – אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן: כֹּל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. וּמַאי שְׁנָא מִשְּׁנֵי שְׁטָרוֹת הַיּוֹצְאִין בְּיוֹם אֶחָד –

There was an incident where two people dispute the ownership of property. This one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them, and that one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them. There was neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. Rav Naḥman said: Whoever is stronger prevails. The Gemara asks: And in what way is this case different from the case where two people produce two deeds of sale or gift for the same field that are issued on one day,

Today’s daily daf tools:

Delve Deeper

Broaden your understanding of the topics on this daf with classes and podcasts from top women Talmud scholars.

For the Beyond the Daf shiurim offered in Hebrew, see here.

New to Talmud?

Check out our resources designed to help you navigate a page of Talmud – and study at the pace, level and style that fits you. 

The Hadran Women’s Tapestry

Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories. 

I tried Daf Yomi in the middle of the last cycle after realizing I could listen to Michelle’s shiurim online. It lasted all of 2 days! Then the new cycle started just days before my father’s first yahrzeit and my youngest daughter’s bat mitzvah. It seemed the right time for a new beginning. My family, friends, colleagues are immensely supportive!

Catriella-Freedman-jpeg
Catriella Freedman

Zichron Yaakov, Israel

I heard about the syium in January 2020 & I was excited to start learning then the pandemic started. Learning Daf became something to focus on but also something stressful. As the world changed around me & my family I had to adjust my expectations for myself & the world. Daf Yomi & the Hadran podcast has been something I look forward to every day. It gives me a moment of centering & Judaism daily.

Talia Haykin
Talia Haykin

Denver, United States

A few years back, after reading Ilana Kurshan’s book, “If All The Seas Were Ink,” I began pondering the crazy, outlandish idea of beginning the Daf Yomi cycle. Beginning in December, 2019, a month before the previous cycle ended, I “auditioned” 30 different podcasts in 30 days, and ultimately chose to take the plunge with Hadran and Rabbanit Michelle. Such joy!

Cindy Dolgin
Cindy Dolgin

HUNTINGTON, United States

I never thought I’d be able to do Daf Yomi till I saw the video of Hadran’s Siyum HaShas. Now, 2 years later, I’m about to participate in Siyum Seder Mo’ed with my Hadran community. It has been an incredible privilege to learn with Rabbanit Michelle and to get to know so many caring, talented and knowledgeable women. I look forward with great anticipation and excitement to learning Seder Nashim.

Caroline-Ben-Ari-Tapestry
Caroline Ben-Ari

Karmiel, Israel

I started learning when my brother sent me the news clip of the celebration of the last Daf Yomi cycle. I was so floored to see so many women celebrating that I wanted to be a part of it. It has been an enriching experience studying a text in a language I don’t speak, using background knowledge that I don’t have. It is stretching my learning in unexpected ways, bringing me joy and satisfaction.

Jodi Gladstone
Jodi Gladstone

Warwick, Rhode Island, United States

I have joined the community of daf yomi learners at the start of this cycle. I have studied in different ways – by reading the page, translating the page, attending a local shiur and listening to Rabbanit Farber’s podcasts, depending on circumstances and where I was at the time. The reactions have been positive throughout – with no exception!

Silke Goldberg
Silke Goldberg

Guildford, United Kingdom

In early 2020, I began the process of a stem cell transplant. The required extreme isolation forced me to leave work and normal life but gave me time to delve into Jewish text study. I did not feel isolated. I began Daf Yomi at the start of this cycle, with family members joining me online from my hospital room. I’ve used my newly granted time to to engage, grow and connect through this learning.

Reena Slovin
Reena Slovin

Worcester, United States

When the new cycle began, I thought, If not now, when? I’d just turned 72. I feel like a tourist on a tour bus passing astonishing scenery each day. Rabbanit Michelle is my beloved tour guide. When the cycle ends, I’ll be 80. I pray that I’ll have strength and mind to continue the journey to glimpse a little more. My grandchildren think having a daf-learning savta is cool!

Wendy Dickstein
Wendy Dickstein

Jerusalem, Israel

I’ve been wanting to do Daf Yomi for years, but always wanted to start at the beginning and not in the middle of things. When the opportunity came in 2020, I decided: “this is now the time!” I’ve been posting my journey daily on social media, tracking my progress (#DafYomi); now it’s fully integrated into my daily routines. I’ve also inspired my partner to join, too!

Joséphine Altzman
Joséphine Altzman

Teaneck, United States

Years ago, I attended the local Siyum HaShas with my high school class. It was inspiring! Through that cycle and the next one, I studied masekhtot on my own and then did “daf yomi practice.” The amazing Hadran Siyum HaShas event firmed my resolve to “really do” Daf Yomi this time. It has become a family goal. We’ve supported each other through challenges, and now we’re at the Siyum of Seder Moed!

Elisheva Brauner
Elisheva Brauner

Jerusalem, Israel

Since I started in January of 2020, Daf Yomi has changed my life. It connects me to Jews all over the world, especially learned women. It makes cooking, gardening, and folding laundry into acts of Torah study. Daf Yomi enables me to participate in a conversation with and about our heritage that has been going on for more than 2000 years.

Shira Eliaser
Shira Eliaser

Skokie, IL, United States

I started learning daf in January, 2020, being inspired by watching the Siyyum Hashas in Binyanei Haumah. I wasn’t sure I would be able to keep up with the task. When I went to school, Gemara was not an option. Fast forward to March, 2022, and each day starts with the daf. The challenge is now learning the intricacies of delving into the actual learning. Hadran community, thank you!

Rochel Cheifetz
Rochel Cheifetz

Riverdale, NY, United States

I was moved to tears by the Hadran Siyyum HaShas. I have learned Torah all my life, but never connected to learning Gemara on a regular basis until then. Seeing the sheer joy Talmud Torah at the siyyum, I felt compelled to be part of it, and I haven’t missed a day!
It’s not always easy, but it is so worthwhile, and it has strengthened my love of learning. It is part of my life now.

Michelle Lewis
Michelle Lewis

Beit Shemesh, Israel

I started the daf at the beginning of this cycle in January 2020. My husband, my children, grandchildren and siblings have been very supportive. As someone who learned and taught Tanach and mefarshim for many years, it has been an amazing adventure to complete the six sedarim of Mishnah, and now to study Talmud on a daily basis along with Rabbanit Michelle and the wonderful women of Hadran.

Rookie Billet
Rookie Billet

Jerusalem, Israel

I started learning Daf in Jan 2020 with Brachot b/c I had never seen the Jewish people united around something so positive, and I wanted to be a part of it. Also, I wanted to broaden my background in Torah Shebal Peh- Maayanot gave me a great gemara education, but I knew that I could hold a conversation in most parts of tanach but almost no TSB. I’m so thankful for Daf and have gained immensely.

Meira Shapiro
Meira Shapiro

NJ, United States

I had dreamed of doing daf yomi since I had my first serious Talmud class 18 years ago at Pardes with Rahel Berkovitz, and then a couple of summers with Leah Rosenthal. There is no way I would be able to do it without another wonderful teacher, Michelle, and the Hadran organization. I wake up and am excited to start each day with the next daf.

Beth Elster
Beth Elster

Irvine, United States

I had never heard of Daf Yomi and after reading the book, The Weight of Ink, I explored more about it. I discovered that it was only 6 months before a whole new cycle started and I was determined to give it a try. I tried to get a friend to join me on the journey but after the first few weeks they all dropped it. I haven’t missed a day of reading and of listening to the podcast.

Anne Rubin
Anne Rubin

Elkins Park, United States

In July, 2012 I wrote for Tablet about the first all women’s siyum at Matan in Jerusalem, with 100 women. At the time, I thought, I would like to start with the next cycle – listening to a podcast at different times of day makes it possible. It is incredible that after 10 years, so many women are so engaged!

Beth Kissileff
Beth Kissileff

Pittsburgh, United States

Having never learned Talmud before, I started Daf Yomi in hopes of connecting to the Rabbinic tradition, sharing a daily idea on Instagram (@dafyomiadventures). With Hadran and Sefaria, I slowly gained confidence in my skills and understanding. Now, part of the Pardes Jewish Educators Program, I can’t wait to bring this love of learning with me as I continue to pass it on to my future students.

Hannah-G-pic
Hannah Greenberg

Pennsylvania, United States

Jill Shames
Jill Shames

Jerusalem, Israel

Bava Batra 34

הֵיכִי נִידַיְּינוּהּ דַּיָּינֵי לְהַאי דִּינָא? לִישַׁלֵּם? לֵיכָּא תְּרֵי סָהֲדִי! לִיפְטְרֵיהּ? אִיכָּא חַד סָהֲדָא! לִישְׁתְּבַע, הָא אָמַר מִיחְטָף חַטְפַהּ, וְכֵיוָן דְּאָמַר דְּחַטְפַהּ – הָוֵה לֵיהּ כְּגַזְלָן!

How should judges judge for this judgment? There are reasons not to implement all potential rulings. If they were to order the one who snatched the metal to pay for it, that would not be the correct ruling, because there are not two witnesses who saw him snatch it, and the court does not force payment based on the testimony of one witness. If they were to accept his claim and exempt him entirely, that would not be the correct ruling, because there is one witness who testified against him. If they were to order him to take an oath, which is the usual response to counter the testimony of one witness, didn’t he say that he did in fact snatch it, and since he said that he snatched it and there is no proof that it is his, he is like a robber, and the court does not allow a robber to take an oath.

אֲמַר לְהוּ רַבִּי אַבָּא: הָוֵי מְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע, וְכׇל הַמְחוּיָּב שְׁבוּעָה שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לִישָּׁבַע – מְשַׁלֵּם.

Rabbi Abba said to them: He is one who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath, and anyone who is liable to take an oath who is unable to take an oath is liable to pay. The Rabbis who were studying before Abaye thought that the case of the witness to the years of profiting and Rabbi Abba’s case are similar, in that since the possessor is unable to take an oath to refute the witness, as he concedes that he profited from the land for those years, he should have to pay for his consumption of the produce.

אֲמַר לְהוּ אַבָּיֵי: מִי דָּמֵי?! הָתָם סָהֲדָא לְאוֹרוֹעֵי קָאָתֵי – כִּי אָתֵי אַחֲרִינָא בַּהֲדֵיהּ, מַפְּקִינַן לַהּ מִינֵּיהּ; הָכָא לְסַיּוֹעֵי קָא אָתֵי – כִּי אֲתָא אַחֲרִינָא, מוֹקְמִינַן לַהּ בִּידֵיהּ!

Abaye said to these Rabbis: Are these two cases comparable? There, in Rabbi Abba’s case, the witness is coming to undermine the position of the one who snatched the metal. This can be seen from the fact that when it would be the case that another witness comes to court and testifies with the first witness, we would take away the piece of metal from the one who snatched it. By contrast, here, in the case of the individual who brought one witness to attest to his profiting from the land, the witness is coming to support the possessor. This can be seen from the fact that when another witness would come to court and testify with the first witness, we would establish the land in his possession. Therefore, the testimony of the one witness does not render the one who profited from the land liable to take an oath.

אֶלָּא אִי דָּמְיָא הָא דְּרַבִּי אַבָּא – לְחַד סָהֲדָא וּלְתַרְתֵּי שְׁנֵי – וּלְפֵירֵי.

Rather, if this case of Rabbi Abba is comparable to a case such as this, it is comparable to a case where there is one witness and he testifies to someone’s profiting from land for two years, and the comparison is in terms of payment for the produce that he consumed. In terms of the consumption of the produce, two witnesses would have rendered the possessor liable to pay, as consumption of the produce for only two years does not establish the presumption of ownership. Therefore, one witness renders him liable to take an oath. Since he himself claimed that he profited from the land as the witness testified, he cannot take an oath to contest the testimony. Therefore, he would have to pay for the produce.

הָהוּא אַרְבָּא דַּהֲווֹ מִינְּצוּ עֲלַהּ בֵּי תְרֵי, הַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״, וְהַאי אָמַר: ״דִּידִי הִיא״. אֲתָא חַד מִינַּיְיהוּ לְבֵי דִינָא, וְאָמַר: תִּיפְסוּהָ אַדְּמַיְיתֵינָא סָהֲדֵי דְּדִידִי הִיא. תָּפְסִינַן, אוֹ לָא תָּפְסִינַן? רַב הוּנָא אָמַר: תָּפְסִינַן. רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא תָּפְסִינַן.

§ The Gemara relates: There was a certain boat that two people were quarreling about with regard to its ownership. This one said: It is mine, and that one also said: It is mine. One of them came to court and said: Seize it until I am able to bring witnesses that it is mine. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we seize it or do we not seize it? Rav Huna said: We seize it. Rav Yehuda said: We do not seize it, as there is no cause for the court to intervene.

אֲזַל, וְלָא אַשְׁכַּח סָהֲדֵי. אֲמַר לְהוּ: אַפְּקוּהָ, וְכֹל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. מַפְּקִינַן, אוֹ לָא מַפְּקִינַן? רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: לָא מַפְּקִינַן. רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: מַפְּקִינַן. וְהִלְכְתָא: לָא תָּפְסִינַן, וְהֵיכָא דִּתְפַס – לָא מַפְּקִינַן.

The court seized the boat. The one who requested of the court to seize it went to seek witnesses, but did not find witnesses. He then said to the court: Release the boat, and whoever is stronger prevails, as this is the ruling in a case where there is neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. The Gemara asks: In such a case, do we release it or do we not release it? Rav Yehuda said: We do not release it. Rav Pappa said: We release it. The Gemara concludes: And the halakha is that we do not seize property in a case where ownership is uncertain, and where it was seized, we do not release it.

זֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״, וְזֶה אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁל אֲבוֹתַי״ – אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן: כֹּל דְּאַלִּים גָּבַר. וּמַאי שְׁנָא מִשְּׁנֵי שְׁטָרוֹת הַיּוֹצְאִין בְּיוֹם אֶחָד –

There was an incident where two people dispute the ownership of property. This one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them, and that one says: It belonged to my ancestors and I inherited it from them. There was neither evidence nor presumptive ownership for either litigant. Rav Naḥman said: Whoever is stronger prevails. The Gemara asks: And in what way is this case different from the case where two people produce two deeds of sale or gift for the same field that are issued on one day,

Want to follow content and continue where you left off?

Create an account today to track your progress, mark what you’ve learned, and follow the shiurim that speak to you.

Clear all items from this list?

This will remove ALL the items in this section. You will lose any progress or history connected to them. This is irreversible.

Cancel
Yes, clear all

Are you sure you want to delete this item?

You will lose any progress or history connected to this item.

Cancel
Yes, delete