Search

Gittin 17

Want to dedicate learning? Get started here:

English
עברית
podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




Summary

Today’s daf is sponsored by Martin Gaynor in loving memory of Rivkeh Gershgorn on her yahrzeit.

Today’s daf is sponsored by Ruth and David Kahan in honor of Paul Gompers and Dr. Jody Dushay and in gratitude for their hospitality.

When the rabbis asked Raba bar bar Hana about whether two messengers who bring a get need to say “in front of me it was written…”, a Persian Habar came and took their candle. Raba bar bar Hana’s reaction was that better the Romans than the Persians. How can this be true if they derive from a verse in Iyov that God sent us to exile in Babylonia (where the Persians ruled) to spare us the terrors of the Romans? In the case in the Mishna where one says it was written in front of me and two testify about the signatures, the get is valid, Rabbi Ami explains that this is only in the case where the messenger testified about the writing. This shows we are concerned about li’shma and therefore even if two messengers deliver the get, one still would need to make the declaration. However, in another instance, Rabbi Ami explained the exact opposite, as he changed his mind. The Mishna ruled that if the get was written during the day and signed at night – on a different date – the get is invalid. Rabbi Shimon permits this kind of document specifically for a get, not for other documents. Why does the date need to be written in the get? Rabbi Yochanan holds that it is a concern that one may be married to his sister’s daughter who may engage in relations with another man and to protect her from getting the death penalty, he will give her a get and claim that it was given before the adulterous incident. Reish Lakish holds that the concern is for a financial disagreement about the proceeds from the usufruct property of the woman (the husband has rights to it during the marriage and the woman has rights to it from the divorce). Why doesn’t each hold like the other? How can we understand the debate between Rabbi Shimon and the rabbis based on each interpretation? Abaye raises a number of difficulties with this takana, both according to Rabbi Yochanan and according to Reish Lakish. Rav Yosef resolves each difficulty.

Today’s daily daf tools:

Gittin 17

חַבְרָא, שְׁקַלָה לִשְׁרָגָא מִקַּמַּיְיהוּ. אֲמַר: רַחֲמָנָא! אוֹ בְּטוּלָּךְ, אוֹ בְּטוּלָּא דְּבַר עֵשָׂו.

Persian priest [ḥabbara] and took the lamp [sheragga] from before them. It was a Persian holiday on which the Persians prohibited the public from maintaining light outside their temple. Rabba, who was from Eretz Yisrael, said: Merciful One! Let us live either in Your shadow or in the shadow of the descendants of Esau, the Romans.

לְמֵימְרָא דְּרוֹמָאֵי מְעַלּוּ מִפָּרְסָאֵי?! וְהָתָנֵי רַבִּי חִיָּיא, מַאי דִּכְתִיב: ״אֱלֹהִים הֵבִין דַּרְכָּהּ וְהוּא יָדַע אֶת מְקוֹמָהּ״? יוֹדֵעַ הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁאֵין יְכוֹלִין לְקַבֵּל גְּזֵירַת רוֹמִיִּים, עָמַד וְהִגְלָה אוֹתָם לְבָבֶל.

The Gemara asks: Is this to say that the Romans are preferable to the Persians? But didn’t Rabbi Ḥiyya teach: What is the meaning of that which is written: “God understands its way and He knows its place” (Job 28:23)? This means that the Holy One, Blessed be He, knows with regard to the Jewish people that they are unable to accept and live under Roman decrees, and therefore He arose and exiled them to Babylonia. This indicates that living under Babylonian rule is preferable to living under Roman rule.

לָא קַשְׁיָא; הָא מִקַּמֵּי דְּנֵיתוֹ חַבָּרֵי לְבָבֶל, הָא לְבָתַר דַּאֲתוֹ חַבָּרֵי לְבָבֶל.

The Gemara explains: This is not difficult, as this interpretation of Rabbi Ḥiyya refers to the period before the Persians reached Babylonia, when life there was very comfortable. That statement of Rabba was issued after the Persians reached Babylonia, when the situation changed and living there became more difficult.

אֶחָד אוֹמֵר ״בְּפָנַי נִכְתַּב״ וּשְׁנַיִם אוֹמְרִים ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נֶחְתַּם״ – כָּשֵׁר: אָמַר רַבִּי אַמֵּי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא שֶׁהַגֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יַד עֵד כְּתִיבָה, דְּנַעֲשׂוּ כִּשְׁנַיִם עַל זֶה וְכִשְׁנַיִם עַל זֶה; אֲבָל מִתַּחַת יְדֵי עֵדֵי חֲתִימָה – פָּסוּל.

§ The mishna taught that if one person says: It was written in my presence, and two say: It was signed in our presence, it is valid. Rabbi Ami says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: They taught that the document is valid only when the bill of divorce is produced by the witness to the writing, i.e., the one who observed the writing is the agent of the bill of divorce, as they become as two witnesses for this act, the writing, and two for that act, the signing. The agent for the bill of divorce is considered like two witnesses when he testifies with regard to the writing. However, if the bill of divorce was produced by the signatory witnesses it is invalid. This is because only one witness, who is not an agent for the bill of divorce, testifies with regard to its writing.

אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵבִיאוּ גֵּט מִמְּדִינַת הַיָּם, צְרִיכִין שֶׁיֹּאמְרוּ: ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב וּבְפָנֵינוּ נֶחְתַּם״. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַסִּי, אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, רֵישָׁא דְּקָתָנֵי: שְׁנַיִם אוֹמְרִים ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב״ וְאֶחָד אוֹמֵר ״בְּפָנַי נֶחְתַּם״ – פָּסוּל, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַכְשִׁיר; וַאֲפִילּוּ גֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי שְׁנֵיהֶם – פָּסְלִי רַבָּנַן?! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִין.

The Gemara comments: Apparently, Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that two people who brought a bill of divorce from a country overseas are required to say: It was written in our presence and it was signed in our presence, and if they do not state this declaration the bill of divorce is invalid. Rabbi Asi said to Rabbi Ami: If that is so, how do you explain the first clause of the mishna, which teaches: If two people say: It was written in our presence, and one says: It was signed in my presence, then it is invalid, and Rabbi Yehuda deems it valid? But do the Rabbis invalidate the document even when the bill of divorce is produced by both of them? Rabbi Ami said to him: Yes.

זִימְנִין אַשְׁכְּחֵיהּ דְּיָתֵיב וְקָאָמַר, דַּאֲפִילּוּ גֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי עֵדֵי חֲתִימָה – כָּשֵׁר. אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵבִיאוּ גֵּט מִמְּדִינַת הַיָּם, אֵין צְרִיכִין שֶׁיֹּאמְרוּ: ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב וּבְפָנֵינוּ נֶחְתַּם״.

The Gemara relates: Another time Rabbi Asi found Rabbi Ami sitting and saying that even if the bill of divorce is produced by the signatory witnesses it is valid. The Gemara notes: Apparently, Rabbi Yoḥanan, in whose name Rabbi Ami stated this halakha, holds that in the case of two people who brought a bill of divorce from a country overseas, they are not required to say: It was written in our presence and it was signed in our presence.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַסִּי: אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, רֵישָׁא דְּקָתָנֵי: שְׁנַיִם אוֹמְרִים ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב״ וְאֶחָד אוֹמֵר ״בְּפָנַי נֶחְתַּם״ – פָּסוּל, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַכְשִׁיר; טַעְמָא דְּאֵין הַגֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי שְׁנֵיהֶם, הָא גֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי שְׁנֵיהֶם – מַכְשְׁרִי רַבָּנַן?!

Rabbi Asi said to him: However, if that is so, how do you explain the first clause of the mishna, which teaches: If two people say: It was written in our presence, and one says: It was signed in my presence, it is invalid, and Rabbi Yehuda deems it valid? The Gemara elaborates: The reason it is invalid is that the bill of divorce is not produced by both of them, from which it may be inferred that if the bill of divorce is produced by both of them the Sages would deem it valid.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִין. וְהָא זִמְנִין לָא אֲמַרְתְּ לַן הָכִי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: יָתֵד הִיא שֶׁלֹּא תָּמוּט.

Rabbi Ami said to him: Yes. Rabbi Asi replied: But the other time you did not say this to us. You issued a ruling that indicated the opposite conclusion, and when I asked if that was the correct inference you affirmed that my reasoning was correct. Rabbi Ami said to him: What I am now telling you is a spike that will not move; you can rely on this ruling, and I retract my previous statement.

מַתְנִי׳ נִכְתַּב בַּיּוֹם וְנֶחְתַּם בַּיּוֹם; בַּלַּיְלָה וְנֶחְתַּם בַּלַּיְלָה; בַּלַּיְלָה וְנֶחְתַּם בַּיּוֹם – כָּשֵׁר. בַּיּוֹם וְנֶחְתַּם בַּלַּיְלָה – פָּסוּל; רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן מַכְשִׁיר.

MISHNA: If a bill of divorce was written during the day and signed on the same day; or if it was written at night and signed on that same night; or if it was written at night and signed on the following day, then it is valid. The new calendar day begins at night, so that in all of these cases the writing and the signing were performed on the same date. However, if it was written during the day and signed on that same night, it is invalid, as the writing and the signing were not on the same calendar day. Rabbi Shimon deems the bill of divorce valid.

שֶׁהָיָה רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר: כׇּל הַגִּיטִּין שֶׁנִּכְתְּבוּ בַּיּוֹם וְנֶחְתְּמוּ בַּלַּיְלָה – פְּסוּלִין; חוּץ מִגִּיטֵּי נָשִׁים.

The mishna explains the ruling of Rabbi Shimon: As Rabbi Shimon would say: All documents that were written during the day and signed at night are invalid because the date recorded in the document is a day prior to the day the document takes effect, except for women’s bills of divorce. Since a bill of divorce is not used to collect money, it is of no concern if the date that appears on it is before the time when it was signed.

גְּמָ׳ אִיתְּמַר: מִפְּנֵי מָה תִּיקְּנוּ זְמַן בְּגִיטִּין? רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: מִשּׁוּם בַּת אֲחוֹתוֹ.

GEMARA: It was stated that the amora’im disagreed with regard to the following question: For what reason did the Sages institute the writing of a date on bills of divorce? Why must the date be written if this document is not intended to be used to collect money? Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Due to the daughter of his sister. The Sages were concerned that a man may claim that his divorce occurred earlier than it actually did. For example, if one was married to his niece, and she committed adultery, he may nevertheless desire to protect her judicial sanction and claim that they were already divorced at the time of her infidelity. In order to prevent this from happening, the Sages instituted an ordinance that bills of divorce must be dated.

רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: מִשּׁוּם פֵּירוֹת.

Reish Lakish says: The ordinance was instituted due to the produce of her usufruct property. A husband owns the produce of the fields belonging to his wife up to the moment the divorce takes effect. The Sages instituted an ordinance that bills of divorce must be dated because she needs to be able to establish the time of the divorce in case the husband sold or consumed the produce of fields that belong to her after the divorce. If there is no date on the bill of divorce, he will be able to claim that the produce was sold or consumed before the divorce took place.

רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר כְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן? אָמַר לָךְ:

The Gemara asks: What is the reason that Reish Lakish did not say in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan? The Gemara answers: Reish Lakish could have said to you:

זְנוּת לָא שְׁכִיחָא.

Adultery is infrequent, and the Sages would not institute the dating of a bill of divorce to avoid an infrequent problem.

וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר כְּרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ? קָסָבַר: יֵשׁ לְבַעַל פֵּירוֹת עַד שְׁעַת נְתִינָה.

The Gemara asks: And what is the reason that Rabbi Yoḥanan did not say in accordance with the reason of Reish Lakish? The Gemara answers that he holds the produce belongs to the husband until the time of the giving of the bill of divorce, and only afterward does the woman have the rights to the produce of her property. If she attempts to collect the value of the produce sold after her divorce, she will be asked to prove when she received the bill of divorce. Therefore, in terms of assisting her to collect these monies, the dating of the bill of divorce does not serve any purpose.

בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, מִשּׁוּם הָכִי קָא מַכְשַׁיר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן. אֶלָּא לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, מַאי טַעְמָא דְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן – דְּמַכְשַׁיר?

The Gemara continues and asks: Granted, according to Reish Lakish, due to that reason Rabbi Shimon deems valid a bill of divorce that was signed on the day after it was written, because he holds that the rights to the produce of usufruct property revert to the woman the moment the bill of divorce is written. She is therefore within her rights to collect these monies from the date written in the bill of divorce, even if it was given at a later date. However, according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, who holds that the reason for writing the date is to prevent the husband from shielding his wife from punishment for her infidelity, what is the reason that Rabbi Shimon deems it valid? There is still a concern that he will have the bill of divorce written and dated earlier in order to protect her.

אָמַר לָךְ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אַלִּיבָּא דְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לָא קָאָמֵינָא, כִּי קָאָמֵינָא אַלִּיבָּא דְּרַבָּנַן.

The Gemara answers: Rabbi Yoḥanan could have said to you: I am not speaking in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Shimon, as he clearly is not concerned with the husband’s shielding his wife from punishment. When I speak, it is in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis, who hold that if the bill of divorce was signed on the night following its writing, it is invalid.

בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, הַיְינוּ דְּאִיכָּא בֵּין רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לְרַבָּנַן; אֶלָּא לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, מַאי אִיכָּא בֵּין רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לְרַבָּנַן?

The Gemara asks: Granted, according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, this is the difference between the opinion of Rabbi Shimon and the opinion of the Rabbis. However, according to Reish Lakish, what difference is there between Rabbi Shimon and the Rabbis?

פֵּירֵי דְּמִשְּׁעַת כְּתִיבָה וְעַד שְׁעַת חֲתִימָה אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ.

The Gemara answers: The practical difference between them pertains to the produce of the wife’s property from the time of the writing until the time of the signing. According to the Rabbis, the rights to the produce revert to the wife only once the bill of divorce is signed, and the bill of divorce must be dated then. According to Rabbi Shimon, the woman’s rights to the produce go into effect the moment the bill of divorce is written, and the date on which it was signed is irrelevant.

וְהָא אִיפְּכָא שָׁמְעִינַן לְהוּ! דְּאִתְּמַר: מֵאֵימָתַי מוֹצִיאִין לְפֵירוֹת? רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: מִשְּׁעַת כְּתִיבָה, וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: מִשְּׁעַת נְתִינָה!

The Gemara challenges the explanation as to why Rabbi Yoḥanan does not agree with Reish Lakish: But didn’t we hear Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish say the opposite of this? As it is stated that they had a dispute with regard to the question: From when does the court remove the property from the possession of the husband, i.e., when does he lose his right to the produce? Rabbi Yoḥanan said: From the time of the writing of the bill of divorce, and Reish Lakish said: From the time of the giving of the bill of divorce. This does not accord with what was stated above, that Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that the husband retains the rights to the produce until the bill of divorce is given and Reish Lakish holds that the wife regains the rights beforehand. Here, their opinions are the opposite of the way the Gemara explained earlier.

אֵיפוֹךְ.

The Gemara answers: Reverse the opinions in this final dispute so that it is Reish Lakish who holds that the rights to the produce revert to the woman at the time of writing and it is Rabbi Yoḥanan who holds that it is at the time of giving the divorce.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי לְרַב יוֹסֵף: שְׁלֹשָׁה גִּיטִּין פְּסוּלִים, וְאִם נִיסַּת – הַוָּלָד כָּשֵׁר; מָה הוֹעִילוּ חֲכָמִים בְּתַקָּנָתָן? אַהֲנוֹ דִּלְכַתְּחִילָּה לָא תִּינָּשֵׂא.

§ The Gemara records a series of questions with regard to the parameters of the ordinance that bills of divorce should be dated. Abaye said to Rav Yosef: It was taught in a mishna (86a): Three bills of divorce are invalid, but if a woman married after she received one of these bills of divorce then the offspring is of unflawed lineage, meaning that the husband and wife are divorced after the fact. One of the three bills of divorce listed is a bill of divorce that does not have a date. Abaye asks: Being that the divorce does take effect, what did the Sages accomplish with their ordinance requiring that the date appear on a bill of divorce? Either way the bill of divorce is valid after the fact without a date. The Gemara answers: It is effective in that she may not marry ab initio as a result of receiving this bill of divorce, which consequently limits the usage of such a bill of divorce.

גַּזְיֵיהּ לִזְמַן דִּידֵיהּ, וְיַהֲבֵיהּ נִיהֲלַהּ, מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לְרַמַּאי לָא חָיְישִׁינַן.

Abaye continued to ask of Rav Yosef: If the husband cut out its date after the dated bill of divorce was written and gave it to her, what is the halakha? May the bill of divorce be used ab initio? He said to him: We are not concerned about a deceiver. The ordinance requiring that the bill of divorce be dated does not apply in this case, as it was dated when it was written.

כָּתוּב בּוֹ שָׁבוּעַ, שָׁנָה, חֹדֶשׁ, שַׁבָּת, מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: כָּשֵׁר. וּמָה הוֹעִילוּ חֲכָמִים בְּתַקָּנָתָן?

Abaye continued and asked: If the date written in the bill of divorce made reference only to the seven-year Sabbatical cycle in which it was written, or only to the year, or only to the month, or only to the week, but the precise date was not recorded, then what is the halakha? May such a bill of divorce be used ab initio? He said to him: It is valid to be used ab initio. Abaye asked him: If so, what did the Sages accomplish with their ordinance requiring the dating of the bill of divorce? Regardless of the reason for recording the date, such vague dating will not ameliorate the problem.

אַהְנוֹ לְשָׁבוּעַ דְּקַמֵּיהּ וּלְשָׁבוּעַ דְּבָתְרֵיהּ. דְּאִי לָא תֵּימָא הָכִי, יוֹמָא גּוּפֵיהּ – מִי יָדְעִינַן אִי מִצַּפְרָא אִי מִפַּנְיָא?! אֶלָּא לְיוֹמָא דְּקַמֵּיהּ וּלְיוֹמָא דְּבָתְרֵיהּ; הָכָא נָמֵי, אַהְנִי לְשָׁבוּעַ דְּקַמֵּיהּ וּלְשָׁבוּעַ דְּבָתְרֵיהּ.

Rav Yosef answered: It helps for the seven-year period before it and the seven-year period after it. If witnesses testify that the woman committed adultery before this seven-year period, then she is liable; if the husband sells produce after this seven-year period, then the woman can recover it. The reason for this is because if you do not say so, i.e., that a limited benefit is enough to justify the ordinance, then on that day itself, do we know if it was written in the morning or in the evening? All of the issues that were mentioned before could apply also to that day itself. Rather, the date is effective for the day before it and the day after it. Here also, writing the seven-year period is effective for the seven-year period before it and the seven-year period after it.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרָבָא: כַּתְבֵיהּ

Ravina said to Rava: If he writes the bill of divorce,

Today’s daily daf tools:

Delve Deeper

Broaden your understanding of the topics on this daf with classes and podcasts from top women Talmud scholars.

For the Beyond the Daf shiurim offered in Hebrew, see here.

New to Talmud?

Check out our resources designed to help you navigate a page of Talmud – and study at the pace, level and style that fits you. 

The Hadran Women’s Tapestry

Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories. 

I started learning daf in January, 2020, being inspired by watching the Siyyum Hashas in Binyanei Haumah. I wasn’t sure I would be able to keep up with the task. When I went to school, Gemara was not an option. Fast forward to March, 2022, and each day starts with the daf. The challenge is now learning the intricacies of delving into the actual learning. Hadran community, thank you!

Rochel Cheifetz
Rochel Cheifetz

Riverdale, NY, United States

When we heard that R. Michelle was starting daf yomi, my 11-year-old suggested that I go. Little did she know that she would lose me every morning from then on. I remember standing at the Farbers’ door, almost too shy to enter. After that first class, I said that I would come the next day but couldn’t commit to more. A decade later, I still look forward to learning from R. Michelle every morning.

Ruth Leah Kahan
Ruth Leah Kahan

Ra’anana, Israel

It happened without intent (so am I yotzei?!) – I watched the women’s siyum live and was so moved by it that the next morning, I tuned in to Rabbanit Michelle’s shiur, and here I am, still learning every day, over 2 years later. Some days it all goes over my head, but others I grasp onto an idea or a story, and I ‘get it’ and that’s the best feeling in the world. So proud to be a Hadran learner.

Jeanne Yael Klempner
Jeanne Yael Klempner

Zichron Yaakov, Israel

I tried Daf Yomi in the middle of the last cycle after realizing I could listen to Michelle’s shiurim online. It lasted all of 2 days! Then the new cycle started just days before my father’s first yahrzeit and my youngest daughter’s bat mitzvah. It seemed the right time for a new beginning. My family, friends, colleagues are immensely supportive!

Catriella-Freedman-jpeg
Catriella Freedman

Zichron Yaakov, Israel

I’ve been studying Talmud since the ’90s, and decided to take on Daf Yomi two years ago. I wanted to attempt the challenge of a day-to-day, very Jewish activity. Some days are so interesting and some days are so boring. But I’m still here.
Wendy Rozov
Wendy Rozov

Phoenix, AZ, United States

I had no formal learning in Talmud until I began my studies in the Joint Program where in 1976 I was one of the few, if not the only, woman talmud major. It was superior training for law school and enabled me to approach my legal studies with a foundation . In 2018, I began daf yomi listening to Rabbanit MIchelle’s pod cast and my daily talmud studies are one of the highlights of my life.

Krivosha_Terri_Bio
Terri Krivosha

Minneapolis, United States

I started learning Daf Yomi in January 2020 after watching my grandfather, Mayer Penstein z”l, finish shas with the previous cycle. My grandfather made learning so much fun was so proud that his grandchildren wanted to join him. I was also inspired by Ilana Kurshan’s book, If All the Seas Were Ink. Two years in, I can say that it has enriched my life in so many ways.

Leeza Hirt Wilner
Leeza Hirt Wilner

New York, United States

I began daf yomi in January 2020 with Brachot. I had made aliya 6 months before, and one of my post-aliya goals was to complete a full cycle. As a life-long Tanach teacher, I wanted to swim from one side of the Yam shel Torah to the other. Daf yomi was also my sanity through COVID. It was the way to marking the progression of time, and feel that I could grow and accomplish while time stopped.

Leah Herzog
Leah Herzog

Givat Zev, Israel

I started learning with rabbis. I needed to know more than the stories. My first teacher to show me “the way of the Talmud” as well as the stories was Samara Schwartz.
Michelle Farber started the new cycle 2 yrs ago and I jumped on for the ride.
I do not look back.

Jenifer Nech
Jenifer Nech

Houston, United States

I was moved to tears by the Hadran Siyyum HaShas. I have learned Torah all my life, but never connected to learning Gemara on a regular basis until then. Seeing the sheer joy Talmud Torah at the siyyum, I felt compelled to be part of it, and I haven’t missed a day!
It’s not always easy, but it is so worthwhile, and it has strengthened my love of learning. It is part of my life now.

Michelle Lewis
Michelle Lewis

Beit Shemesh, Israel

I started the daf at the beginning of this cycle in January 2020. My husband, my children, grandchildren and siblings have been very supportive. As someone who learned and taught Tanach and mefarshim for many years, it has been an amazing adventure to complete the six sedarim of Mishnah, and now to study Talmud on a daily basis along with Rabbanit Michelle and the wonderful women of Hadran.

Rookie Billet
Rookie Billet

Jerusalem, Israel

Since I started in January of 2020, Daf Yomi has changed my life. It connects me to Jews all over the world, especially learned women. It makes cooking, gardening, and folding laundry into acts of Torah study. Daf Yomi enables me to participate in a conversation with and about our heritage that has been going on for more than 2000 years.

Shira Eliaser
Shira Eliaser

Skokie, IL, United States

“I got my job through the NY Times” was an ad campaign when I was growing up. I can headline “I got my daily Daf shiur and Hadran through the NY Times”. I read the January 4, 2020 feature on Reb. Michelle Farber and Hadran and I have been participating ever since. Thanks NY Times & Hadran!
Deborah Aschheim
Deborah Aschheim

New York, United States

I heard the new Daf Yomi cycle was starting and I was curious, so I searched online for a women’s class and was pleasently surprised to find Rabanit Michelle’s great class reviews in many online articles. It has been a splendid journey. It is a way to fill my days with Torah, learning so many amazing things I have never heard before during my Tanach learning at High School. Thanks so much .

Martha Tarazi
Martha Tarazi

Panama, Panama

Ive been learning Gmara since 5th grade and always loved it. Have always wanted to do Daf Yomi and now with Michelle Farber’s online classes it made it much easier to do! Really enjoying the experience thank you!!

Lisa Lawrence
Lisa Lawrence

Neve Daniel, Israel

I started to listen to Michelle’s podcasts four years ago. The minute I started I was hooked. I’m so excited to learn the entire Talmud, and think I will continue always. I chose the quote “while a woman is engaged in conversation she also holds the spindle”. (Megillah 14b). It reminds me of all of the amazing women I learn with every day who multi-task, think ahead and accomplish so much.

Julie Mendelsohn
Julie Mendelsohn

Zichron Yakov, Israel

I’ve been studying Talmud since the ’90s, and decided to take on Daf Yomi two years ago. I wanted to attempt the challenge of a day-to-day, very Jewish activity. Some days are so interesting and some days are so boring. But I’m still here.
Sarene Shanus
Sarene Shanus

Mamaroneck, NY, United States

About a year into learning more about Judaism on a path to potential conversion, I saw an article about the upcoming Siyum HaShas in January of 2020. My curiosity was piqued and I immediately started investigating what learning the Daf actually meant. Daily learning? Just what I wanted. Seven and a half years? I love a challenge! So I dove in head first and I’ve enjoyed every moment!!
Nickie Matthews
Nickie Matthews

Blacksburg, United States

I LOVE learning the Daf. I started with Shabbat. I join the morning Zoom with Reb Michelle and it totally grounds my day. When Corona hit us in Israel, I decided that I would use the Daf to keep myself sane, especially during the days when we could not venture out more than 300 m from our home. Now my husband and I have so much new material to talk about! It really is the best part of my day!

Batsheva Pava
Batsheva Pava

Hashmonaim, Israel

I started learning at the start of this cycle, and quickly fell in love. It has become such an important part of my day, enriching every part of my life.

Naomi Niederhoffer
Naomi Niederhoffer

Toronto, Canada

Gittin 17

חַבְרָא, שְׁקַלָה לִשְׁרָגָא מִקַּמַּיְיהוּ. אֲמַר: רַחֲמָנָא! אוֹ בְּטוּלָּךְ, אוֹ בְּטוּלָּא דְּבַר עֵשָׂו.

Persian priest [ḥabbara] and took the lamp [sheragga] from before them. It was a Persian holiday on which the Persians prohibited the public from maintaining light outside their temple. Rabba, who was from Eretz Yisrael, said: Merciful One! Let us live either in Your shadow or in the shadow of the descendants of Esau, the Romans.

לְמֵימְרָא דְּרוֹמָאֵי מְעַלּוּ מִפָּרְסָאֵי?! וְהָתָנֵי רַבִּי חִיָּיא, מַאי דִּכְתִיב: ״אֱלֹהִים הֵבִין דַּרְכָּהּ וְהוּא יָדַע אֶת מְקוֹמָהּ״? יוֹדֵעַ הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל שֶׁאֵין יְכוֹלִין לְקַבֵּל גְּזֵירַת רוֹמִיִּים, עָמַד וְהִגְלָה אוֹתָם לְבָבֶל.

The Gemara asks: Is this to say that the Romans are preferable to the Persians? But didn’t Rabbi Ḥiyya teach: What is the meaning of that which is written: “God understands its way and He knows its place” (Job 28:23)? This means that the Holy One, Blessed be He, knows with regard to the Jewish people that they are unable to accept and live under Roman decrees, and therefore He arose and exiled them to Babylonia. This indicates that living under Babylonian rule is preferable to living under Roman rule.

לָא קַשְׁיָא; הָא מִקַּמֵּי דְּנֵיתוֹ חַבָּרֵי לְבָבֶל, הָא לְבָתַר דַּאֲתוֹ חַבָּרֵי לְבָבֶל.

The Gemara explains: This is not difficult, as this interpretation of Rabbi Ḥiyya refers to the period before the Persians reached Babylonia, when life there was very comfortable. That statement of Rabba was issued after the Persians reached Babylonia, when the situation changed and living there became more difficult.

אֶחָד אוֹמֵר ״בְּפָנַי נִכְתַּב״ וּשְׁנַיִם אוֹמְרִים ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נֶחְתַּם״ – כָּשֵׁר: אָמַר רַבִּי אַמֵּי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא שֶׁהַגֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יַד עֵד כְּתִיבָה, דְּנַעֲשׂוּ כִּשְׁנַיִם עַל זֶה וְכִשְׁנַיִם עַל זֶה; אֲבָל מִתַּחַת יְדֵי עֵדֵי חֲתִימָה – פָּסוּל.

§ The mishna taught that if one person says: It was written in my presence, and two say: It was signed in our presence, it is valid. Rabbi Ami says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: They taught that the document is valid only when the bill of divorce is produced by the witness to the writing, i.e., the one who observed the writing is the agent of the bill of divorce, as they become as two witnesses for this act, the writing, and two for that act, the signing. The agent for the bill of divorce is considered like two witnesses when he testifies with regard to the writing. However, if the bill of divorce was produced by the signatory witnesses it is invalid. This is because only one witness, who is not an agent for the bill of divorce, testifies with regard to its writing.

אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵבִיאוּ גֵּט מִמְּדִינַת הַיָּם, צְרִיכִין שֶׁיֹּאמְרוּ: ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב וּבְפָנֵינוּ נֶחְתַּם״. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַסִּי, אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, רֵישָׁא דְּקָתָנֵי: שְׁנַיִם אוֹמְרִים ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב״ וְאֶחָד אוֹמֵר ״בְּפָנַי נֶחְתַּם״ – פָּסוּל, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַכְשִׁיר; וַאֲפִילּוּ גֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי שְׁנֵיהֶם – פָּסְלִי רַבָּנַן?! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִין.

The Gemara comments: Apparently, Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that two people who brought a bill of divorce from a country overseas are required to say: It was written in our presence and it was signed in our presence, and if they do not state this declaration the bill of divorce is invalid. Rabbi Asi said to Rabbi Ami: If that is so, how do you explain the first clause of the mishna, which teaches: If two people say: It was written in our presence, and one says: It was signed in my presence, then it is invalid, and Rabbi Yehuda deems it valid? But do the Rabbis invalidate the document even when the bill of divorce is produced by both of them? Rabbi Ami said to him: Yes.

זִימְנִין אַשְׁכְּחֵיהּ דְּיָתֵיב וְקָאָמַר, דַּאֲפִילּוּ גֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי עֵדֵי חֲתִימָה – כָּשֵׁר. אַלְמָא קָסָבַר: שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵבִיאוּ גֵּט מִמְּדִינַת הַיָּם, אֵין צְרִיכִין שֶׁיֹּאמְרוּ: ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב וּבְפָנֵינוּ נֶחְתַּם״.

The Gemara relates: Another time Rabbi Asi found Rabbi Ami sitting and saying that even if the bill of divorce is produced by the signatory witnesses it is valid. The Gemara notes: Apparently, Rabbi Yoḥanan, in whose name Rabbi Ami stated this halakha, holds that in the case of two people who brought a bill of divorce from a country overseas, they are not required to say: It was written in our presence and it was signed in our presence.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַסִּי: אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, רֵישָׁא דְּקָתָנֵי: שְׁנַיִם אוֹמְרִים ״בְּפָנֵינוּ נִכְתַּב״ וְאֶחָד אוֹמֵר ״בְּפָנַי נֶחְתַּם״ – פָּסוּל, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַכְשִׁיר; טַעְמָא דְּאֵין הַגֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי שְׁנֵיהֶם, הָא גֵּט יוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי שְׁנֵיהֶם – מַכְשְׁרִי רַבָּנַן?!

Rabbi Asi said to him: However, if that is so, how do you explain the first clause of the mishna, which teaches: If two people say: It was written in our presence, and one says: It was signed in my presence, it is invalid, and Rabbi Yehuda deems it valid? The Gemara elaborates: The reason it is invalid is that the bill of divorce is not produced by both of them, from which it may be inferred that if the bill of divorce is produced by both of them the Sages would deem it valid.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִין. וְהָא זִמְנִין לָא אֲמַרְתְּ לַן הָכִי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: יָתֵד הִיא שֶׁלֹּא תָּמוּט.

Rabbi Ami said to him: Yes. Rabbi Asi replied: But the other time you did not say this to us. You issued a ruling that indicated the opposite conclusion, and when I asked if that was the correct inference you affirmed that my reasoning was correct. Rabbi Ami said to him: What I am now telling you is a spike that will not move; you can rely on this ruling, and I retract my previous statement.

מַתְנִי׳ נִכְתַּב בַּיּוֹם וְנֶחְתַּם בַּיּוֹם; בַּלַּיְלָה וְנֶחְתַּם בַּלַּיְלָה; בַּלַּיְלָה וְנֶחְתַּם בַּיּוֹם – כָּשֵׁר. בַּיּוֹם וְנֶחְתַּם בַּלַּיְלָה – פָּסוּל; רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן מַכְשִׁיר.

MISHNA: If a bill of divorce was written during the day and signed on the same day; or if it was written at night and signed on that same night; or if it was written at night and signed on the following day, then it is valid. The new calendar day begins at night, so that in all of these cases the writing and the signing were performed on the same date. However, if it was written during the day and signed on that same night, it is invalid, as the writing and the signing were not on the same calendar day. Rabbi Shimon deems the bill of divorce valid.

שֶׁהָיָה רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר: כׇּל הַגִּיטִּין שֶׁנִּכְתְּבוּ בַּיּוֹם וְנֶחְתְּמוּ בַּלַּיְלָה – פְּסוּלִין; חוּץ מִגִּיטֵּי נָשִׁים.

The mishna explains the ruling of Rabbi Shimon: As Rabbi Shimon would say: All documents that were written during the day and signed at night are invalid because the date recorded in the document is a day prior to the day the document takes effect, except for women’s bills of divorce. Since a bill of divorce is not used to collect money, it is of no concern if the date that appears on it is before the time when it was signed.

גְּמָ׳ אִיתְּמַר: מִפְּנֵי מָה תִּיקְּנוּ זְמַן בְּגִיטִּין? רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: מִשּׁוּם בַּת אֲחוֹתוֹ.

GEMARA: It was stated that the amora’im disagreed with regard to the following question: For what reason did the Sages institute the writing of a date on bills of divorce? Why must the date be written if this document is not intended to be used to collect money? Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Due to the daughter of his sister. The Sages were concerned that a man may claim that his divorce occurred earlier than it actually did. For example, if one was married to his niece, and she committed adultery, he may nevertheless desire to protect her judicial sanction and claim that they were already divorced at the time of her infidelity. In order to prevent this from happening, the Sages instituted an ordinance that bills of divorce must be dated.

רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: מִשּׁוּם פֵּירוֹת.

Reish Lakish says: The ordinance was instituted due to the produce of her usufruct property. A husband owns the produce of the fields belonging to his wife up to the moment the divorce takes effect. The Sages instituted an ordinance that bills of divorce must be dated because she needs to be able to establish the time of the divorce in case the husband sold or consumed the produce of fields that belong to her after the divorce. If there is no date on the bill of divorce, he will be able to claim that the produce was sold or consumed before the divorce took place.

רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר כְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן? אָמַר לָךְ:

The Gemara asks: What is the reason that Reish Lakish did not say in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan? The Gemara answers: Reish Lakish could have said to you:

זְנוּת לָא שְׁכִיחָא.

Adultery is infrequent, and the Sages would not institute the dating of a bill of divorce to avoid an infrequent problem.

וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר כְּרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ? קָסָבַר: יֵשׁ לְבַעַל פֵּירוֹת עַד שְׁעַת נְתִינָה.

The Gemara asks: And what is the reason that Rabbi Yoḥanan did not say in accordance with the reason of Reish Lakish? The Gemara answers that he holds the produce belongs to the husband until the time of the giving of the bill of divorce, and only afterward does the woman have the rights to the produce of her property. If she attempts to collect the value of the produce sold after her divorce, she will be asked to prove when she received the bill of divorce. Therefore, in terms of assisting her to collect these monies, the dating of the bill of divorce does not serve any purpose.

בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, מִשּׁוּם הָכִי קָא מַכְשַׁיר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן. אֶלָּא לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, מַאי טַעְמָא דְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן – דְּמַכְשַׁיר?

The Gemara continues and asks: Granted, according to Reish Lakish, due to that reason Rabbi Shimon deems valid a bill of divorce that was signed on the day after it was written, because he holds that the rights to the produce of usufruct property revert to the woman the moment the bill of divorce is written. She is therefore within her rights to collect these monies from the date written in the bill of divorce, even if it was given at a later date. However, according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, who holds that the reason for writing the date is to prevent the husband from shielding his wife from punishment for her infidelity, what is the reason that Rabbi Shimon deems it valid? There is still a concern that he will have the bill of divorce written and dated earlier in order to protect her.

אָמַר לָךְ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אַלִּיבָּא דְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לָא קָאָמֵינָא, כִּי קָאָמֵינָא אַלִּיבָּא דְּרַבָּנַן.

The Gemara answers: Rabbi Yoḥanan could have said to you: I am not speaking in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Shimon, as he clearly is not concerned with the husband’s shielding his wife from punishment. When I speak, it is in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis, who hold that if the bill of divorce was signed on the night following its writing, it is invalid.

בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, הַיְינוּ דְּאִיכָּא בֵּין רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לְרַבָּנַן; אֶלָּא לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, מַאי אִיכָּא בֵּין רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לְרַבָּנַן?

The Gemara asks: Granted, according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, this is the difference between the opinion of Rabbi Shimon and the opinion of the Rabbis. However, according to Reish Lakish, what difference is there between Rabbi Shimon and the Rabbis?

פֵּירֵי דְּמִשְּׁעַת כְּתִיבָה וְעַד שְׁעַת חֲתִימָה אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ.

The Gemara answers: The practical difference between them pertains to the produce of the wife’s property from the time of the writing until the time of the signing. According to the Rabbis, the rights to the produce revert to the wife only once the bill of divorce is signed, and the bill of divorce must be dated then. According to Rabbi Shimon, the woman’s rights to the produce go into effect the moment the bill of divorce is written, and the date on which it was signed is irrelevant.

וְהָא אִיפְּכָא שָׁמְעִינַן לְהוּ! דְּאִתְּמַר: מֵאֵימָתַי מוֹצִיאִין לְפֵירוֹת? רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: מִשְּׁעַת כְּתִיבָה, וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: מִשְּׁעַת נְתִינָה!

The Gemara challenges the explanation as to why Rabbi Yoḥanan does not agree with Reish Lakish: But didn’t we hear Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish say the opposite of this? As it is stated that they had a dispute with regard to the question: From when does the court remove the property from the possession of the husband, i.e., when does he lose his right to the produce? Rabbi Yoḥanan said: From the time of the writing of the bill of divorce, and Reish Lakish said: From the time of the giving of the bill of divorce. This does not accord with what was stated above, that Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that the husband retains the rights to the produce until the bill of divorce is given and Reish Lakish holds that the wife regains the rights beforehand. Here, their opinions are the opposite of the way the Gemara explained earlier.

אֵיפוֹךְ.

The Gemara answers: Reverse the opinions in this final dispute so that it is Reish Lakish who holds that the rights to the produce revert to the woman at the time of writing and it is Rabbi Yoḥanan who holds that it is at the time of giving the divorce.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי לְרַב יוֹסֵף: שְׁלֹשָׁה גִּיטִּין פְּסוּלִים, וְאִם נִיסַּת – הַוָּלָד כָּשֵׁר; מָה הוֹעִילוּ חֲכָמִים בְּתַקָּנָתָן? אַהֲנוֹ דִּלְכַתְּחִילָּה לָא תִּינָּשֵׂא.

§ The Gemara records a series of questions with regard to the parameters of the ordinance that bills of divorce should be dated. Abaye said to Rav Yosef: It was taught in a mishna (86a): Three bills of divorce are invalid, but if a woman married after she received one of these bills of divorce then the offspring is of unflawed lineage, meaning that the husband and wife are divorced after the fact. One of the three bills of divorce listed is a bill of divorce that does not have a date. Abaye asks: Being that the divorce does take effect, what did the Sages accomplish with their ordinance requiring that the date appear on a bill of divorce? Either way the bill of divorce is valid after the fact without a date. The Gemara answers: It is effective in that she may not marry ab initio as a result of receiving this bill of divorce, which consequently limits the usage of such a bill of divorce.

גַּזְיֵיהּ לִזְמַן דִּידֵיהּ, וְיַהֲבֵיהּ נִיהֲלַהּ, מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לְרַמַּאי לָא חָיְישִׁינַן.

Abaye continued to ask of Rav Yosef: If the husband cut out its date after the dated bill of divorce was written and gave it to her, what is the halakha? May the bill of divorce be used ab initio? He said to him: We are not concerned about a deceiver. The ordinance requiring that the bill of divorce be dated does not apply in this case, as it was dated when it was written.

כָּתוּב בּוֹ שָׁבוּעַ, שָׁנָה, חֹדֶשׁ, שַׁבָּת, מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: כָּשֵׁר. וּמָה הוֹעִילוּ חֲכָמִים בְּתַקָּנָתָן?

Abaye continued and asked: If the date written in the bill of divorce made reference only to the seven-year Sabbatical cycle in which it was written, or only to the year, or only to the month, or only to the week, but the precise date was not recorded, then what is the halakha? May such a bill of divorce be used ab initio? He said to him: It is valid to be used ab initio. Abaye asked him: If so, what did the Sages accomplish with their ordinance requiring the dating of the bill of divorce? Regardless of the reason for recording the date, such vague dating will not ameliorate the problem.

אַהְנוֹ לְשָׁבוּעַ דְּקַמֵּיהּ וּלְשָׁבוּעַ דְּבָתְרֵיהּ. דְּאִי לָא תֵּימָא הָכִי, יוֹמָא גּוּפֵיהּ – מִי יָדְעִינַן אִי מִצַּפְרָא אִי מִפַּנְיָא?! אֶלָּא לְיוֹמָא דְּקַמֵּיהּ וּלְיוֹמָא דְּבָתְרֵיהּ; הָכָא נָמֵי, אַהְנִי לְשָׁבוּעַ דְּקַמֵּיהּ וּלְשָׁבוּעַ דְּבָתְרֵיהּ.

Rav Yosef answered: It helps for the seven-year period before it and the seven-year period after it. If witnesses testify that the woman committed adultery before this seven-year period, then she is liable; if the husband sells produce after this seven-year period, then the woman can recover it. The reason for this is because if you do not say so, i.e., that a limited benefit is enough to justify the ordinance, then on that day itself, do we know if it was written in the morning or in the evening? All of the issues that were mentioned before could apply also to that day itself. Rather, the date is effective for the day before it and the day after it. Here also, writing the seven-year period is effective for the seven-year period before it and the seven-year period after it.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרָבָא: כַּתְבֵיהּ

Ravina said to Rava: If he writes the bill of divorce,

Want to follow content and continue where you left off?

Create an account today to track your progress, mark what you’ve learned, and follow the shiurim that speak to you.

Clear all items from this list?

This will remove ALL the items in this section. You will lose any progress or history connected to them. This is irreversible.

Cancel
Yes, clear all

Are you sure you want to delete this item?

You will lose any progress or history connected to this item.

Cancel
Yes, delete