Kiddushin 72

והאידנא הוא דליוה פרסאי אמר ליה אביי לרב יוסף להא גיסא דפרת עד היכא אמר ליה מאי דעתיך משום בירם מייחסי דפומבדיתא מבירם נסבי

And it is only now that the Persians moved the bridge further up northward. Abaye said to Rav Yosef: Until where does the border extend on this western side of the Euphrates? Rav Yosef said to him: What are you thinking? Why do you ask? Is it due to the town of Biram? Even those of pure lineage who live in Pumbedita marry women from Biram, which demonstrates that the residents of Biram are presumed to have unflawed lineage.

אמר רב פפא כמחלוקת ליוחסין כך מחלוקת לענין גיטין ורב יוסף אמר מחלוקת ליוחסין אבל לגיטין דברי הכל עד ארבא תניינא דגישרא

Rav Pappa says: Just as there is a dispute between Rav and Shmuel as to the northern border of Babylonia with regard to lineage, so is there a dispute with regard to bills of divorce. An agent bringing a bill of divorce from a country overseas to Eretz Yisrael must state that it was written and signed in his presence. If he brought it from Babylonia, there is no requirement for him to state this. Rav Pappa is teaching that the borders that define Babylonia with regard to this issue are the same as the borders with regard to lineage. And Rav Yosef says: This dispute is with regard to lineage, but with regard to bills of divorce, everyone agrees that it is considered Babylonia up to the second lake of the bridge that Shmuel mentioned.

אמר רמי בר אבא חביל ימא תכילתא דבבל שוניא וגוביא תכילתא דחביל ימא רבינא אמר אף ציצורא תניא נמי הכי חנן בן פנחס אומר חביל ימא תכילתא דבבל שוניא וגוביא וציצורא תכילתא דחביל ימא אמר רב פפא והאידנא איערבי בהו כותאי ולא היא איתתא הוא דבעא מינייהו ולא יהבו ליה מאי חביל ימא אמר רב פפא זו פרת דבורסי

Rami bar Abba said: The province of Ḥaveil Yamma is the glory of Babylonia with regard to lineage; Shunya and Guvya are the glory of Ḥaveil Yamma. Ravina said: The town of Tzitzora is also like Shunya and Guvya. This is also taught in a baraita: Ḥanan ben Pineḥas says: Ḥaveil Yamma is the glory of Babylonia; Shunya and Guvya and Tzitzora are the glory of Ḥaveil Yamma. Rav Pappa says: And nowadays, Samaritans have assimilated with them, and their lineage is problematic. The Gemara comments: And that is not so. Rather, one Samaritan requested to marry a woman from them and they would not give her to him, which led to the rumor that Samaritans had assimilated with them. The Gemara asks: What is this region called Ḥaveil Yamma? Rav Pappa said: This is the area near the Euphrates adjacent to Bursi.

ההוא גברא דאמר להו אנא מן שוט מישוט עמד רבי יצחק נפחא על רגליו ואמר שוט מישוט בין הנהרות עומדת וכי בין הנהרות עומדת מאי הוי אמר אביי אמר רבי חמא בר עוקבא אמר רבי יוסי ברבי חנינא בין הנהרות הרי היא כגולה ליוחסין והיכא קיימא אמר רבי יוחנן מאיהי דקירא ולעיל והא אמר רבי יוחנן עד מעברתא דגיזמא אמר אביי רצועה נפקא

The Gemara relates: There was a certain man who said to the Sages: I am from a place called Shot Mishot. Rabbi Yitzḥak Nappaḥa stood on his feet and said: Shot Mishot is located between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The Gemara asks: And if it is located between the rivers, what of it? What halakha is this relevant for? Abaye said that Rabbi Ḥama bar Ukva says that Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, says: The area between the rivers is like the exile, meaning Pumbedita, with regard to lineage. The Gemara inquires: And where is the area between the rivers located for the purpose of this halakha? Rabbi Yoḥanan said: From Ihi Dekira and upward, i.e., northward. The Gemara asks: But doesn’t Rabbi Yoḥanan say: Until the crossing at Gizma but no further? Abaye said: A strip extends from that region past Ihi Dekira.

אמר רב איקא בר אבין אמר רב חננאל אמר רב חלזון ניהוונד הרי היא כגולה ליוחסין אמר להו אביי לא תציתו ליה יבמה היא דנפלה ליה התם אמר ליה אטו דידי היא דרב חננאל היא אזיל שיילוה לרב חננאל אמר להו הכי אמר רב חלזון ניהוונד הרי היא כגולה ליוחסין

Rav Ika bar Avin says that Rav Ḥananel says that Rav says: Ḥillazon Nihavnad is like the exile with regard to lineage. Abaye said to them: Do not listen to Rav Ika bar Avin about this, as it was a yevama who fell before him from there to perform levirate marriage, and he said that its lineage was unflawed because he wished to marry her. Rav Ika bar Avin said to him: Is that to say that this halakha is mine? It is Rav Ḥananel’s, and it is not reasonable to say that I was influenced by my own interests in stating it. They went and asked Rav Ḥananel. He said to them: Rav said as follows: Ḥillazon Nihavnad is like the exile with regard to lineage.

ופליגא דרבי אבא בר כהנא דאמר רבי אבא בר כהנא מאי דכתיב וינחם בחלח ובחבור נהר גוזן וערי מדי חלח זו חלזון חבור זו הדייב נהר גוזן זו גינזק ערי מדי זו חמדן וחברותיה ואמרי לה זו נהוונד וחברותיה

The Gemara comments: And this disagrees with the statement of Rabbi Abba bar Kahana, as Rabbi Abba bar Kahana says: What is the meaning of that which is written with regard to the exile of the ten tribes of the kingdom of Israel: “And he put them in Halah, and in Habor, on the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes” (II Kings 18:11)? Halah is Ḥillazon; Habor is Hadyav; the river of Gozan is Ginzak; the cities of the Medes are Ḥamadan and its neighboring towns, and some say: This is Nihavnad and its neighboring towns. Since the ten tribes assimilated with the gentiles, the lineage of Jews from those places is flawed, unlike that which was taught before.

מאי חברותיה אמר שמואל כרך מושכי חוסקי ורומקי אמר רבי יוחנן וכולם לפסול קסלקא דעתא מושכי היינו מושכני והאמר רבי חייא בר אבין אמר שמואל מושכני הרי היא כגולה ליוחסין אלא מושכי לחוד ומושכני לחוד

The Gemara asks: What are the neighboring towns of Nihavnad? Shmuel said: The city of Mushekhei, Ḥosekei, and Rumekei. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: And all of these are the same with regard to flawed lineage. It was assumed that Mushekhei is the same as Mushekanei. The Gemara therefore asks: But doesn’t Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Avin say that Shmuel says: Mushekanei is like the exile with regard to lineage? Rather, it must be that Mushekhei is discrete, and Mushekanei is discrete.

ותלת עלעין בפמה בין שנה אמר רבי יוחנן זו חלזון הדייב ונציבין שפעמים בולעתן ופעמים פולטתן

In connection to the aforementioned places, the Gemara analyzes the following verse, describing a vision of a bear-like animal: “And it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth” (Daniel 7:5). Rabbi Yoḥanan says: This is Ḥillazon, Hadyav, and Netzivin, which the Persian government sometimes swallows and sometimes discharges. In other words, control over these places passed from the Persians to the Romans and back again several times.

וארו חיוה אחרי תנינה דמיה לדב תני רב יוסף אלו פרסיים שאוכלין ושותין כדוב ומסורבלין כדוב ומגדלין שער כדוב ואין להם מנוחה כדוב רבי אמי כי הוה חזי פרסא דרכיב אמר היינו דובא ניידא

The first part of that verse stated: “And behold a second beast, similar to a bear” (Daniel 7:5). Rav Yosef taught: These are Persians, who eat and drink copious amounts like a bear, and are corpulent like a bear, and grow hair like a bear, and have no rest like a bear, which is constantly on the move from one place to another. When Rabbi Ami saw a Persian riding, he would say: This is a bear on the move.

אמר ליה רבי ללוי הראני פרסיים אמר ליה דומים לחיילות של בית דוד הראני חברין דומין למלאכי חבלה הראני ישמעאלים דומין לשעירים של בית הכסא הראני תלמידי חכמים שבבבל דומים למלאכי השרת

Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said to Levi: Show me Persians, i.e., describe a typical Persian to me. Levi said to him: They are similar to the legions of the house of David. Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said: Show me Ḥabbarin, Persian priests. Levi said to him: They are similar to angels of destruction. Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said: Show me Ishmaelites. Levi said to him: They are similar to demons of an outhouse. Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said: Show me Torah scholars of Babylonia. Levi said to him: They are similar to ministering angels.

כי הוה ניחא נפשיה דרבי אמר הומניא איכא בבבל כולה עמונאי היא מסגריא איכא בבבל כולה דממזירא היא בירקא איכא בבבל שני אחים יש שמחליפים נשותיהם זה לזה בירתא דסטיא איכא בבבל היום סרו מאחרי המקום דאקפי פירא בכוורי בשבתא ואזיל וצדו בהו בשבתא ושמתינהו רבי אחי ברבי יאשיה ואישתמוד אקרא דאגמא איכא בבבל אדא בר אהבה יש בה

When Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was dying, he said prophetically: There is a place called Homanya in Babylonia, and all its people are the sons of Ammon. There is a place called Masgariya in Babylonia, and all its people are mamzerim. There is a place called Bireka in Babylonia, and there are two brothers there who exchange wives with each other, and their children are therefore mamzerim. There is a place called Bireta DeSatya in Babylonia. Today they turned away from the Omnipresent. What did they do? A ditch with fish overflowed, and they went and trapped the fish on Shabbat. Rabbi Aḥai, son of Rabbi Yoshiya, excommunicated them, and they all became apostates. There is a place called Akra DeAgma in Babylonia. There is a man named Adda bar Ahava there.

היום יושב בחיקו של אברהם היום נולד רב יהודה בבבל

Today he is sitting in the lap of Abraham our forefather, since he has just been circumcised. He added: Today Rav Yehuda was born in Babylonia.

דאמר מר כשמת רבי עקיבא נולד רבי כשמת רבי נולד רב יהודה כשמת רב יהודה נולד רבא כשמת רבא נולד רב אשי ללמדך שאין צדיק נפטר מן העולם עד שנברא צדיק כמותו שנאמר וזרח השמש ובא השמש עד שלא כבתה שמשו של עלי זרחה שמשו של שמואל הרמתי שנאמר ונר אלהים טרם יכבה ושמואל שוכב וגו׳

The Gemara comments: As the Master said: While Rabbi Akiva was dying, Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was born; while Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was dying, Rav Yehuda was born; while Rav Yehuda was dying, Rava was born; while Rava was dying, Rav Ashi was born. This teaches you that a righteous person does not leave the world before an equally righteous person is created, as it is stated: “The sun also rises and the sun also sets” (Ecclesiastes 1:5). The same applies to earlier generations: Before Eli’s sun had gone out, Samuel the Ramathite’s sun was already rising, as it is stated: “And the lamp of God was not yet gone out, and Samuel was lying in the Temple of the Lord” (I Samuel 3:3), which teaches that Samuel was already prophesying in the days of Eli.

צוה ה׳ ליעקב סביביו צריו רב יהודה אמר כגון הומניא לפום נהרא

The Gemara stated above that Homanya is an Ammonite city. The verse states: “The Lord has commanded concerning Jacob, that they that are round about him should be his adversaries” (Lamentations 1:17), indicating that the Jewish people are surrounded by enemies even in its exile. Rav Yehuda says: Homanya is close to Pum Nahara, which had Jewish residents.

ויהי כהנבאי ופלטיהו בן בניה מת ואפל על פני ואזעק קול גדול ואמר אהה אדני ה׳ רב ושמואל חד אמר לטובה וחד אמר לרעה מאן דאמר לטובה כי הא דאיסתנדרא דמישן חתניה דנבוכדנצר הוה שלח ליה מכולי האי שבייה דאייתית לך לא שדרת לן דקאי לקמן

The verse states: “And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said: Ah Lord God!” (Ezekiel 11:13). Rav and Shmuel disagreed with regard to the meaning of this verse. One said it should be interpreted for good, and one said it should be interpreted for evil. How so? The one who says that it should be interpreted for good claims it is like that story involving the governor [de’istandera] of the province of Meishan, who was the son-in-law of Nebuchadnezzar. He sent a message to his father-in-law: From all those captives you have brought for yourself from your wars you have not sent us anyone to stand before us.

בעי לשדורי ליה מישראל אמר ליה פלטיהו בן בניהו אנן דחשבינן ניקו מקמך הכא ועבדין ניזלו להתם ואמר נביא מי שעשה טובה בישראל ימות בחצי ימיו

Nebuchadnezzar wanted to send him captives from the Jews to serve his son-in-law. Pelatiah, son of Benaiah, said to Nebuchadnezzar: We, who are important, shall stand and serve before you here, and our slaves will go there, to your son-in-law. Nebuchadnezzar took his advice. And about him the prophet Ezekiel said: One who did this good for the Jewish people, i.e., Pelatiah ben Benaiah, who spared them this exile, should he die at half of his days?

מאן דאמר לרעה דכתיב ותבא אתי אל שער בית ה׳ הקדמוני הפונה קדימה והנה בפתח השער עשרים וחמשה איש ואראה בתוכם את יאזניה בן עזר ואת פלטיהו בן בניהו שרי העם וכתיב ויבא אתי אל חצר בית ה׳ הפנימית והנה פתח היכל ה׳ בין האולם ובין המזבח כעשרים וחמשה איש אחריהם אל היכל ה׳ ופניהם קדמה

The one who says that the verse should be interpreted for evil cites the following verse, as it is written: “Then a spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of the Lord’s House, which looked eastward; and behold, at the door of the gate five and twenty men; and I saw in the midst of them Jaazaniah the son of Azzur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people” (Ezekiel 11:1), and it is written: “And He brought me into the inner court of the Lord’s House, and, behold, at the door of the Temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the Temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east” (Ezekiel 8:16).

ממשמע שנאמר ופניהם קדמה איני יודע שאחוריהם כלפי מערב מה תלמוד לומר [אחריהם] אל היכל ה׳ מלמד שהיו מפריעין עצמם ומתריזין עצמם כלפי מעלה וקאמר נביא מי שעשה הרעה הזאת בישראל ימות על מיטתו

The second verse is analyzed in light of the first verse, which states that Pelatiah ben Benaiah was among the twenty-five people: From the fact that it is stated: “And their faces toward the east,” don’t I know that their backs were toward the west, where the Temple was? What is the meaning when the verse states: “Their backs toward the Temple of the Lord”? These words hint at another matter, as the verse teaches that they exposed themselves from behind and discharged excrement toward the One above, in the direction of the Temple. And the prophet is saying: Shall he who did this evil in Israel die peacefully on his bed?

תסתיים דשמואל דאמר לרעה דאמר רבי חייא בר אבין אמר שמואל מושכני הרי היא כגולה ליוחסים מישון לא חשו לה לא משום עבדות ולא משום ממזרות אלא כהנים שהיו בה לא הקפידו על הגרושות

The Gemara comments: It may be concluded that it was Shmuel who said this was for evil, as Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Avin says that Shmuel says: Mushekanei is like the exile with regard to lineage. And even with regard to Mishon, they were not concerned due to slavery nor due to mamzer status. Rather, the priests who were there were not particular with regard to the prohibition against priests marrying divorced women. Consequently, Shmuel maintains that the only flaw of lineage in Mishon was that of ḥalalim, whereas the opinion that the verse was stated for good maintains that the some of the residents of Mishon were slaves.

לעולם אימא לך שמואל אמר לטובה ושמואל לטעמיה דאמר המפקיר עבדו יצא לחירות ואינו צריך גט שחרור שנאמר כל עבד איש מקנת כסף עבד איש ולא עבד אשה אלא עבד שיש לו רשות לרבו עליו קרוי עבד עבד שאין לרבו רשות עליו אין קרוי עבד

The Gemara rejects this: Actually, I could say to you that Shmuel said it was for good, and there is no contradiction, since Shmuel conforms to his standard line of reasoning, as he says: With regard to one who renounces ownership of his slave, the slave is emancipated and he does not even require a bill of manumission. Shmuel cited a proof from that which is stated: “But every slave man that is bought for money” (Exodus 12:44). Does this apply only to a slave who is a man, and not to a woman slave? Rather, it means: The slave of a man, i.e., a slave whose master has authority and control over him, is called a slave, since he is the slave of a particular man. A slave whose master does not have authority over him, such as one who has been declared ownerless, is not called a slave but a freeman. The slaves who went to Mishon no longer had the status of slaves because their masters remained behind.

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל זו דברי רבי מאיר אבל חכמים אומרים כל ארצות בחזקת כשרות הם עומדות

Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: This mishna, which indicates that only the inhabitants of Babylonia have unflawed lineage, is the statement of Rabbi Meir. But the Rabbis say: All lands retain a presumptive status of unflawed lineage.

אמימר שרא ליה לרב הונא בר נתן למינסב איתתא מחוזייתא אמר ליה רב אשי מאי דעתיך דאמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל זו דברי רבי מאיר אבל חכמים אומרים כל ארצות בחזקת כשרות הן עומדות והא בי רב כהנא לא מתני הכי ובי רב פפא לא מתני הכי ובי רב זביד לא מתני הכי אפילו הכי לא קיבלה מיניה משום דשמיע ליה מרב זביד דנהרדעא

The Gemara comments: Ameimar permitted Rav Huna bar Natan to marry a woman from Meḥoza, which is outside the borders of Babylonia as pertains to lineage. Rav Ashi said to Ameimar: What is your reasoning in allowing him to do so? Is it because Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: This is the statement of Rabbi Meir, but the Rabbis say all lands retain a presumptive status of unflawed lineage. The halakha follows the opinion of the Rabbis, but the school of Rav Kahana did not teach like this, and the school of Rav Pappa did not teach like this, and the school of Rav Zevid did not teach like this. The Gemara comments: Nevertheless, despite hearing of all these reports, Ameimar did not accept this halakha from him, because he had heard this halakha directly from Rav Zevid of Neharde’a, upon whom he relied.

תנו רבנן ממזירי ונתיני טהורים לעתיד לבא דברי רבי יוסי רבי מאיר אומר אין טהורים אמר לו רבי יוסי והלא כבר נאמר וזרקתי עליכם מים טהורים וטהרתם אמר לו רבי מאיר כשהוא אומר מכל טמאותיכם ומכל גלוליכם ולא מן הממזרות אמר לו רבי יוסי כשהוא אומר אטהר אתכם הוי אומר אף מן הממזרות

The Sages taught (Tosefta 5:5): Mamzerim and Gibeonites will be pure in the future; this is the statement of Rabbi Yosei. Rabbi Meir says: They will not be pure. Rabbi Yosei said to him: But hasn’t it already been stated: “And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you” (Ezekiel 36:25)? Rabbi Meir said to him: When it says: “From all your uncleanness, and from all your idols,” this emphasizes that God will purify people from these types of impurity, but not from mamzer status. Rabbi Yosei said to him: When it says: “Will I cleanse you,” at the end of the verse, you must say this means even from mamzer status.

בשלמא לרבי מאיר היינו דכתיב וישב ממזר באשדוד אלא לרבי יוסי מאי וישב ממזר באשדוד כדמתרגם רב יוסף יתבון בית ישראל לרוחצן בארעהון דהוו דמו בה לנוכראין

The Gemara comments: Granted, according to Rabbi Meir, who maintains that mamzerim will not be purified, this is as it is written: “And a mamzer shall dwell in Ashdod” (Zechariah 9:6), indicating that they will have their own isolated living area. But according to Rabbi Yosei, what is the meaning of the phrase “And a mamzer shall dwell in Ashdod”? The Gemara answers: He understands that verse as Rav Yosef would translate it: The Jewish people shall dwell in tranquility in their land, where they were formerly like strangers, reading mamzer as me’am zar, from a strange people.

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה כרבי יוסי אמר רב יוסף אי לאו דאמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה כרבי יוסי הוה אתי אליהו מפיק מינן צוורני צוורני קולרין

Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, that mamzerim and Gibeonites will be pure in the future. Rav Yosef says: If it were not for the fact that Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said that the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, Elijah would come and remove from us group after group of forbidden people [kolarin], since he would reveal how many mamzerim there are among the Jewish people.

תנו רבנן גר נושא ממזרת דברי רבי יוסי רבי יהודה אומר גר לא ישא ממזרת אחד גר אחד עבד משוחרר וחלל מותרים בכהנת מאי טעמא דרבי יוסי חמשה קהלי כתיבי

The Sages taught (Tosefta 5:3): A convert may marry a mamzeret ab initio; this is the statement of Rabbi Yosei. Rabbi Yehuda says: A convert may not marry a mamzeret. A convert, an emancipated slave, and a ḥalal are all permitted to marry the daughter of a priest. The Gemara asks: What is the reason of Rabbi Yosei, who deems it permitted for a convert to marry a mamzeret? The Gemara answers: Five congregations are written, meaning, the word congregation appears five times in the Torah with regard to various people of flawed lineage who are prohibited from entering the congregation of God.