Search

Nedarim 12

Want to dedicate learning? Get started here:

English
עברית
podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




podcast placeholder

0:00
0:00




Summary
This week’s learning is sponsored by Dahlia Farber-Zohar in honor and appreciation of Esther Meisels. “Thank you for your friendship and inspiration, and for introducing me to Rabbanit Michelle’s amazing Daf Yomi podcast. Mazal tov on your new beautiful baby boy.” 

Rami bar Hama asked about one who vowed about an item that originally was forbidden due to a vow but was now permitted – is the person referring to its original status as a vowed item or is it referring to its status presently as a permitted item. Three sources are brought to try to answer his question – each one used to show that one is referring to the original status, and the vow would be valid. However, each proof is rejected. In the end, they suggest that there is a tannaitic debate about Rami bar Hama’s issue.

 

Today’s daily daf tools:

Nedarim 12

וְהָא נוֹתָר וּפִיגּוּל לְאַחַר זְרִיקַת דָּמִים הוּא.

But notar and piggul are conditions that apply after the sprinkling of the blood, when the prohibition against misusing consecrated property, which the individual is attempting to extend to a permitted item, no longer applies. Since the vow takes effect, this proves that the individual is associating the object of his vow with the original forbidden status of the offering.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב נָתָן: בְּנוֹתָר שֶׁל עוֹלָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִם כֵּן, לִיתְנֵי בִּבְשַׂר עוֹלָה!

Rav Huna, son of Rav Natan, said to him: It is possible to say that it is speaking here about notar of a burnt-offering. Since a burnt-offering may not be eaten even after its blood is sprinkled, the original prohibition against misusing consecrated property continues to apply to the meat of this offering. Rava said to Rav Huna, son of Rav Natan: If so, let it teach explicitly that the individual referred to the meat of a burnt-offering.

לָא מִיבַּעְיָא קָאָמַר: לָא מִיבַּעְיָא ״בְּשַׂר עוֹלָה״ דְּאָסוּר, דְּהָא בְּקׇרְבָּן קָא מַתְפֵּיס, נוֹתָר וּפִיגּוּל דְּעוֹלָה אִיצְטְרִיכָא,

The Gemara responds: The tanna is speaking utilizing the style of: It is not necessary. It is not necessary to state that if one associates the object of his vow with meat of a burnt-offering, it is forbidden, as he extends the status of an offering to the other item. However, if one extends the status of notar and piggul of a burnt-offering, it is necessary to say that the other item is forbidden.

סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ אָמֵינָא כְּאִיסּוּר נוֹתָר, כְּאִיסּוּר פִּיגּוּל, וְהָוֵה לֵיהּ כְּמַתְפֵּיס בְּדָבָר הָאָסוּר, וְלָא מִיתְּסַר, קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.

It could enter your mind to say that the individual intended to declare the item forbidden like the prohibition of notar or like the prohibition of piggul, and this would be like one who associates the object of his vow with an item that is forbidden by the Torah rather than an item forbidden by means of a vow. Consequently, the item is not forbidden, as one can take a vow by associating the object of his vow with a forbidden item only if that item is itself prohibited due to a vow. The mishna therefore teaches us that his intention is to transfer the prohibition of the offering, and the vow takes effect.

מֵיתִיבִי: אֵיזֶהוּ אִיסָּר הָאָמוּר בְּתוֹרָה? אָמַר: ״הֲרֵינִי שֶׁלֹּא אוֹכַל בָּשָׂר וְשֶׁלֹּא אֶשְׁתֶּה יַיִן כַּיּוֹם שֶׁמֵּת בּוֹ אָבִיו״, ״כַּיּוֹם שֶׁמֵּת בּוֹ רַבּוֹ״, ״כַּיּוֹם שֶׁנֶּהֱרַג בּוֹ גְּדַלְיָה בֶּן אֲחִיקָם״, ״כַּיּוֹם שֶׁרָאִיתִי יְרוּשָׁלַיִם בְּחוּרְבָּנָהּ״, וְאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: וְהוּא שֶׁנָּדוּר בְּאוֹתוֹ הַיּוֹם.

The Gemara raises an objection based upon the following baraita: Which is the vow of prohibition [issar] mentioned in the Torah? It is a case where one said: I hereby declare that I will not eat meat and I will not drink wine today like the day his father died, referring to the father of the individual making the vow, as there is a custom to fast on the anniversary of a parent’s death, or: Like the day his teacher died, as one mourns his primary teacher like a father, or: Like the day Gedaliah, son of Ahikam, was killed (see Jeremiah, chapter 41), i.e., the Fast of Gedaliah, or: Like the day I saw Jerusalem in its state of destruction. And Shmuel said: And this is if he was obligated by a previous vow to abstain from meat and wine on that day that he refers to in his declaration.

הֵיכִי דָּמֵי? לָאו כְּגוֹן דְּקָאֵי בְּחַד בְּשַׁבָּא דְּמִית בֵּיהּ אֲבוּהּ, וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּאִיכָּא טוּבָא חַד בְּשַׁבָּא דְּהֶיתֵּרָא, וְקָתָנֵי אָסוּר. שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ בְּעִיקָּר הוּא מַתְפֵּיס.

The Gemara clarifies: What are the circumstances? Is it not a case where, for example, it was Sunday, the same day of the week on which his father died? And although there were many permitted Sundays in the interim, nevertheless, when he said he would not eat meat or drink wine like the day of the week on which his father died, his intention was to the particular Sunday when his father died, when he had vowed to abstain from meat and wine, and therefore the tanna teaches that it is prohibited. Learn from this that he associates the object of his vow with the original halakhic status of the Sunday his father died, and not the status of the intervening Sundays. Similarly, in the case of peace-offerings following the sprinkling of the blood, he is referring to the original status of the meat before the sprinkling of the blood.

דִּשְׁמוּאֵל, הָכִי אִיתְּמַר, אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: וְהוּא שֶׁנָּדוּר וּבָא מֵאוֹתוֹ הַיּוֹם וְאֵילָךְ.

The Gemara responds that this is how the comment of Shmuel was stated: Shmuel said: And this is if he was continuously obligated by a vow from that day forward to abstain from meat and wine on the anniversary of his father’s death. Consequently, when he associates another day with the day of his father’s death, he expresses a vow based upon the current status of the day, and there is no proof with regard to the case of the meat of the peace-offering.

אָמַר רָבִינָא, תָּא שְׁמַע: ״כְּחַלַּת אַהֲרֹן״, ״וְכִתְרוּמָתוֹ״ — מוּתָּר. הָא ״כִּתְרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה״ — אָסוּר.

The Gemara cites another attempted proof. Ravina said: Come and hear that which was taught in the mishna (13b): If one declares an item to be like the ḥalla of Aaron, i.e., the portion of dough given to the priests, or like his teruma, the portion of agricultural produce given to priests, the item remains permitted. Although these items are prohibited to non-priests as soon as they are designated, they are considered forbidden by the Torah rather than forbidden by a vow. The Gemara infers: But if one declares an item to be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering, i.e., the four loaves of the thanks-offering that were eaten by the priests, the item is forbidden.

וְהָא תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה — לְאַחַר זְרִיקַת דָּמִים הִיא.

Having made this inference, Ravina comments: But the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering is designated only after the sprinkling of the blood. Consequently, the individual must have made his vow after the sprinkling of the blood, when these loaves are permitted to priests. If the vow nevertheless takes effect, it must be because the individual is referring to the original forbidden status of the loaves before the sprinkling of the blood. This indicates that one has in mind the original status of the item rather than its current status.

אֵימָא: ״כִּתְרוּמַת הַלִּשְׁכָּה״ — אָסוּר.

The Gemara refutes this: Say that when the mishna specifies that if one said the food should be like the teruma of Aaron it remains permitted it thereby indicates that if he said it should be like the collection of the Temple treasury chamber, which is also called a teruma and is always forbidden, the food becomes forbidden. However, one cannot infer from the mishna that if one declares the food to be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering the food becomes forbidden.

אֲבָל תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה מַאי — מוּתָּר? לִיתְנֵי לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה, וְכׇל שֶׁכֵּן תְּרוּמָתוֹ! הָא קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה — תְּרוּמָתוֹ הִיא.

The Gemara asks: But according to this, if one said the food should be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering, what, does the food remain permitted? If so, let it teach in the mishna that if one said the food should be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering it remains permitted even though the thanks-offering is forbidden by means of a vow, and one would know on his own that if he says the food should be like the teruma of Aaron, all the more so the food remains permitted. The Gemara responds: It teaches us this: Teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering is also referred to as his teruma and is therefore included in the mishna.

וְאִי בָּעֵית אֵימָא: תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה נָמֵי קוֹדֶם זְרִיקַת דָּמִים הוּא. כְּגוֹן דְּאַפְרְשִׁינְהוּ בְּלֵישָׁה.

The Gemara offers an alternative response to Ravina’s attempted proof from the case of the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering, that one has in mind the original status of an item when one expresses a vow. And if you wish, say that the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering can also be designated before the sprinkling of the blood, for example, when he separated the teruma during the kneading of the dough. Consequently, the case may be where one makes the vow before the sprinkling of the blood, when the loaves are forbidden to all, and that is the reason the vow takes effect.

וְכִי הָא דְּאָמַר רַב טוֹבִי בַּר קִיסְנָא אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה שֶׁאֲפָאָן בְּאַרְבַּע חַלּוֹת — יָצָא. וְהָכְתִיב אַרְבָּעִים! לְמִצְוָה.

And this is in accordance with that which Rav Tovi bar Kisna said that Shmuel said: If one baked the loaves of the thanks-offering as four loaves rather than the forty loaves that should ideally be baked, he has fulfilled his obligation. The Gemara asks: Isn’t it written that forty loaves must be brought with the thanks-offering, ten loaves of each of the four different types? The Gemara answers: One must bake forty loaves in order to fulfill the mitzva in the optimal fashion, but he has nevertheless fulfilled his obligation with four loaves, one of each type.

וְהָא בָּעֵי לְמִשְׁקַל תְּרוּמָה! וְכִי תֵּימָא דְּשָׁקֵיל חֲדָא רִיפְתָּא עַל כּוּלַּהּ — וְהָתְנַן: אֶחָד מִכׇּל קׇרְבָּן. שֶׁלֹּא יִטּוֹל מִקׇּרְבָּן עַל חֲבֵירוֹ! וְכִי תֵּימָא דְּשָׁקֵיל פְּרוּסָה מִכׇּל חַד וְחַד, וְהָתְנַן: ״אֶחָד״, שֶׁלֹּא יִטּוֹל פְּרוּסָה!

The Gemara asks: But he is required to take teruma, i.e., designate one loaf of each type to be given to the priests. And if you would say that he takes one loaf of bread of the four as teruma for all the others, but didn’t we learn in a mishna (Menaḥot 77b) with regard to the verse “And of it he shall present one out of each offering for a gift to the Lord; it shall be the priest’s” (Leviticus 7:14), that it indicates that he should not take from one offering, i.e., one type of loaf, for another? And if you would say that he takes a slice from each one of the four loaves and gives them to the priest, but didn’t we learn in that mishna that the word one in the verse indicates that he may not take a slice but rather a complete loaf?

אֶלָּא דְּאַפְרְשִׁינְהוּ בְּלֵישָׁה. דְּשָׁקֵיל חֲדָא מֵחָמֵץ, וַחֲדָא מִן חַלּוֹת, וַחֲדָא מִן רְקִיקִים, וַחֲדָא מִן רְבוּכָה.

Rather, it must be that he separated the teruma during the time of kneading. He took one piece of dough from the leavened bread, one from the loaves, one from the wafers, and one from the flour mixed with water and oil. After separating one tenth of each type of dough for the priest, he then baked the remainder into four loaves. Since it is possible to separate the teruma at the time of the kneading, before the sprinkling of the blood of the offering, it is possible that the case is one where he expressed the vow at this time. Consequently, there is no proof that one has in mind the original status of an offering rather than its current status when one expresses a vow after the sprinkling of the blood.

לֵימָא כְּתַנָּאֵי: ״הֲרֵי עָלַי כִּבְכוֹר״, רַבִּי יַעֲקֹב אוֹסֵר, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַתִּיר.

The Gemara suggests: Let us say that this question, whether one intends to extend the original or current status of an offering, is parallel to a dispute between tanna’im. If one says: This meat is prohibited to me like the meat of a firstborn, Rabbi Ya’akov renders the meat forbidden and Rabbi Yehuda renders it permitted.

הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִי נֵימָא לִפְנֵי זְרִיקַת דָּמִים, מַאי טַעְמָא דְמַאן דְּשָׁרֵי. וְאִי לְאַחַר זְרִיקַת דָּמִים, מַאי טַעְמָא דְּמַאן דְּאָסַר? אֶלָּא לָאו,

The Gemara clarifies: What are the circumstances of this case? If we say that he associates the object of his vow with the status of a firstborn animal before the sprinkling of the blood, when it is forbidden as a consecrated item, what is the rationale of the one who renders it permitted? And if he associates the object of his vow with the status of a firstborn animal after the sprinkling of the blood, when it belongs to the priest and is permitted to be eaten, what is the rationale of the one who renders it forbidden? Rather, is it not

Today’s daily daf tools:

Delve Deeper

Broaden your understanding of the topics on this daf with classes and podcasts from top women Talmud scholars.

For the Beyond the Daf shiurim offered in Hebrew, see here.

New to Talmud?

Check out our resources designed to help you navigate a page of Talmud – and study at the pace, level and style that fits you. 

The Hadran Women’s Tapestry

Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories. 

As Jewish educator and as a woman, I’m mindful that Talmud has been kept from women for many centuries. Now that we are privileged to learn, and learning is so accessible, it’s my intent to complete Daf Yomi. I am so excited to keep learning with my Hadran community.

Sue Parker Gerson
Sue Parker Gerson

Denver, United States

Michelle has been an inspiration for years, but I only really started this cycle after the moving and uplifting siyum in Jerusalem. It’s been an wonderful to learn and relearn the tenets of our religion and to understand how the extraordinary efforts of a band of people to preserve Judaism after the fall of the beit hamikdash is still bearing fruits today. I’m proud to be part of the chain!

Judith Weil
Judith Weil

Raanana, Israel

I started learning at the beginning of this cycle more than 2 years ago, and I have not missed a day or a daf. It’s been challenging and enlightening and even mind-numbing at times, but the learning and the shared experience have all been worth it. If you are open to it, there’s no telling what might come into your life.

Patti Evans
Patti Evans

Phoenix, Arizona, United States

I learned daf more off than on 40 years ago. At the beginning of the current cycle, I decided to commit to learning daf regularly. Having Rabanit Michelle available as a learning partner has been amazing. Sometimes I learn with Hadran, sometimes with my husband, and sometimes on my own. It’s been fun to be part of an extended learning community.

Miriam Pollack
Miriam Pollack

Honolulu, Hawaii, United States

I am grateful for the structure of the Daf Yomi. When I am freer to learn to my heart’s content, I learn other passages in addition. But even in times of difficulty, I always know that I can rely on the structure and social support of Daf Yomi learners all over the world.

I am also grateful for this forum. It is very helpful to learn with a group of enthusiastic and committed women.

Janice Block-2
Janice Block

Beit Shemesh, Israel

Attending the Siyyum in Jerusalem 26 months ago inspired me to become part of this community of learners. So many aspects of Jewish life have been illuminated by what we have learned in Seder Moed. My day is not complete without daf Yomi. I am so grateful to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Community.

Nancy Kolodny
Nancy Kolodny

Newton, United States

After reading the book, “ If All The Seas Were Ink “ by Ileana Kurshan I started studying Talmud. I searched and studied with several teachers until I found Michelle Farber. I have been studying with her for two years. I look forward every day to learn from her.

Janine Rubens
Janine Rubens

Virginia, United States

I started last year after completing the Pesach Sugiyot class. Masechet Yoma might seem like a difficult set of topics, but for me made Yom Kippur and the Beit HaMikdash come alive. Liturgy I’d always had trouble connecting with took on new meaning as I gained a sense of real people moving through specific spaces in particular ways. It was the perfect introduction; I am so grateful for Hadran!

Debbie Engelen-Eigles
Debbie Engelen-Eigles

Minnesota, United States

I was inspired to start learning after attending the 2020 siyum in Binyanei Hauma. It has been a great experience for me. It’s amazing to see the origins of stories I’ve heard and rituals I’ve participated in my whole life. Even when I don’t understand the daf itself, I believe that the commitment to learning every day is valuable and has multiple benefits. And there will be another daf tomorrow!

Khaya Eisenberg
Khaya Eisenberg

Jerusalem, Israel

I learned Talmud as a student in Yeshivat Ramaz and felt at the time that Talmud wasn’t for me. After reading Ilana Kurshan’s book I was intrigued and after watching the great siyum in Yerushalayim it ignited the spark to begin this journey. It has been a transformative life experience for me as a wife, mother, Savta and member of Klal Yisrael.
Elana Storch
Elana Storch

Phoenix, Arizona, United States

I heard about the syium in January 2020 & I was excited to start learning then the pandemic started. Learning Daf became something to focus on but also something stressful. As the world changed around me & my family I had to adjust my expectations for myself & the world. Daf Yomi & the Hadran podcast has been something I look forward to every day. It gives me a moment of centering & Judaism daily.

Talia Haykin
Talia Haykin

Denver, United States

It has been a pleasure keeping pace with this wonderful and scholarly group of women.

Janice Block
Janice Block

Beit Shemesh, Israel

My first Talmud class experience was a weekly group in 1971 studying Taanit. In 2007 I resumed Talmud study with a weekly group I continue learning with. January 2020, I was inspired to try learning Daf Yomi. A friend introduced me to Daf Yomi for Women and Rabbanit Michelle Farber, I have kept with this program and look forward, G- willing, to complete the entire Shas with Hadran.
Lorri Lewis
Lorri Lewis

Palo Alto, CA, United States

A beautiful world of Talmudic sages now fill my daily life with discussion and debate.
bringing alive our traditions and texts that has brought new meaning to my life.
I am a מגילת אסתר reader for women . the words in the Mishna of מסכת megillah 17a
הקורא את המגילה למפרע לא יצא were powerful to me.
I hope to have the zchut to complete the cycle for my 70th birthday.

Sheila Hauser
Sheila Hauser

Jerusalem, Israel

תמיד רציתי. למדתי גמרא בבית ספר בטורונטו קנדה. עליתי ארצה ולמדתי שזה לא מקובל. הופתעתי.
יצאתי לגימלאות לפני שנתיים וזה מאפשר את המחוייבות לדף יומי.
עבורי ההתמדה בלימוד מעגן אותי בקשר שלי ליהדות. אני תמיד מחפשת ותמיד. מוצאת מקור לקשר. ללימוד חדש ומחדש. קשר עם נשים לומדות מעמיק את החוויה ומשמעותית מאוד.

Vitti Kones
Vitti Kones

מיתר, ישראל

I began Daf Yomi with the last cycle. I was inspired by the Hadran Siyum in Yerushalayim to continue with this cycle. I have learned Daf Yomi with Rabanit Michelle in over 25 countries on 6 continents ( missing Australia)

Barbara-Goldschlag
Barbara Goldschlag

Silver Spring, MD, United States

I learned daf more off than on 40 years ago. At the beginning of the current cycle, I decided to commit to learning daf regularly. Having Rabanit Michelle available as a learning partner has been amazing. Sometimes I learn with Hadran, sometimes with my husband, and sometimes on my own. It’s been fun to be part of an extended learning community.

Miriam Pollack
Miriam Pollack

Honolulu, Hawaii, United States

I am a Reform rabbi and took Talmud courses in rabbinical school, but I knew there was so much more to learn. It felt inauthentic to serve as a rabbi without having read the entire Talmud, so when the opportunity arose to start Daf Yomi in 2020, I dove in! Thanks to Hadran, Daf Yomi has enriched my understanding of rabbinic Judaism and deepened my love of Jewish text & tradition. Todah rabbah!

Rabbi Nicki Greninger
Rabbi Nicki Greninger

California, United States

When we heard that R. Michelle was starting daf yomi, my 11-year-old suggested that I go. Little did she know that she would lose me every morning from then on. I remember standing at the Farbers’ door, almost too shy to enter. After that first class, I said that I would come the next day but couldn’t commit to more. A decade later, I still look forward to learning from R. Michelle every morning.

Ruth Leah Kahan
Ruth Leah Kahan

Ra’anana, Israel

I started learning Jan 2020 when I heard the new cycle was starting. I had tried during the last cycle and didn’t make it past a few weeks. Learning online from old men didn’t speak to my soul and I knew Talmud had to be a soul journey for me. Enter Hadran! Talmud from Rabbanit Michelle Farber from a woman’s perspective, a mother’s perspective and a modern perspective. Motivated to continue!

Keren Carter
Keren Carter

Brentwood, California, United States

Nedarim 12

וְהָא נוֹתָר וּפִיגּוּל לְאַחַר זְרִיקַת דָּמִים הוּא.

But notar and piggul are conditions that apply after the sprinkling of the blood, when the prohibition against misusing consecrated property, which the individual is attempting to extend to a permitted item, no longer applies. Since the vow takes effect, this proves that the individual is associating the object of his vow with the original forbidden status of the offering.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב נָתָן: בְּנוֹתָר שֶׁל עוֹלָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִם כֵּן, לִיתְנֵי בִּבְשַׂר עוֹלָה!

Rav Huna, son of Rav Natan, said to him: It is possible to say that it is speaking here about notar of a burnt-offering. Since a burnt-offering may not be eaten even after its blood is sprinkled, the original prohibition against misusing consecrated property continues to apply to the meat of this offering. Rava said to Rav Huna, son of Rav Natan: If so, let it teach explicitly that the individual referred to the meat of a burnt-offering.

לָא מִיבַּעְיָא קָאָמַר: לָא מִיבַּעְיָא ״בְּשַׂר עוֹלָה״ דְּאָסוּר, דְּהָא בְּקׇרְבָּן קָא מַתְפֵּיס, נוֹתָר וּפִיגּוּל דְּעוֹלָה אִיצְטְרִיכָא,

The Gemara responds: The tanna is speaking utilizing the style of: It is not necessary. It is not necessary to state that if one associates the object of his vow with meat of a burnt-offering, it is forbidden, as he extends the status of an offering to the other item. However, if one extends the status of notar and piggul of a burnt-offering, it is necessary to say that the other item is forbidden.

סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ אָמֵינָא כְּאִיסּוּר נוֹתָר, כְּאִיסּוּר פִּיגּוּל, וְהָוֵה לֵיהּ כְּמַתְפֵּיס בְּדָבָר הָאָסוּר, וְלָא מִיתְּסַר, קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.

It could enter your mind to say that the individual intended to declare the item forbidden like the prohibition of notar or like the prohibition of piggul, and this would be like one who associates the object of his vow with an item that is forbidden by the Torah rather than an item forbidden by means of a vow. Consequently, the item is not forbidden, as one can take a vow by associating the object of his vow with a forbidden item only if that item is itself prohibited due to a vow. The mishna therefore teaches us that his intention is to transfer the prohibition of the offering, and the vow takes effect.

מֵיתִיבִי: אֵיזֶהוּ אִיסָּר הָאָמוּר בְּתוֹרָה? אָמַר: ״הֲרֵינִי שֶׁלֹּא אוֹכַל בָּשָׂר וְשֶׁלֹּא אֶשְׁתֶּה יַיִן כַּיּוֹם שֶׁמֵּת בּוֹ אָבִיו״, ״כַּיּוֹם שֶׁמֵּת בּוֹ רַבּוֹ״, ״כַּיּוֹם שֶׁנֶּהֱרַג בּוֹ גְּדַלְיָה בֶּן אֲחִיקָם״, ״כַּיּוֹם שֶׁרָאִיתִי יְרוּשָׁלַיִם בְּחוּרְבָּנָהּ״, וְאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: וְהוּא שֶׁנָּדוּר בְּאוֹתוֹ הַיּוֹם.

The Gemara raises an objection based upon the following baraita: Which is the vow of prohibition [issar] mentioned in the Torah? It is a case where one said: I hereby declare that I will not eat meat and I will not drink wine today like the day his father died, referring to the father of the individual making the vow, as there is a custom to fast on the anniversary of a parent’s death, or: Like the day his teacher died, as one mourns his primary teacher like a father, or: Like the day Gedaliah, son of Ahikam, was killed (see Jeremiah, chapter 41), i.e., the Fast of Gedaliah, or: Like the day I saw Jerusalem in its state of destruction. And Shmuel said: And this is if he was obligated by a previous vow to abstain from meat and wine on that day that he refers to in his declaration.

הֵיכִי דָּמֵי? לָאו כְּגוֹן דְּקָאֵי בְּחַד בְּשַׁבָּא דְּמִית בֵּיהּ אֲבוּהּ, וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּאִיכָּא טוּבָא חַד בְּשַׁבָּא דְּהֶיתֵּרָא, וְקָתָנֵי אָסוּר. שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ בְּעִיקָּר הוּא מַתְפֵּיס.

The Gemara clarifies: What are the circumstances? Is it not a case where, for example, it was Sunday, the same day of the week on which his father died? And although there were many permitted Sundays in the interim, nevertheless, when he said he would not eat meat or drink wine like the day of the week on which his father died, his intention was to the particular Sunday when his father died, when he had vowed to abstain from meat and wine, and therefore the tanna teaches that it is prohibited. Learn from this that he associates the object of his vow with the original halakhic status of the Sunday his father died, and not the status of the intervening Sundays. Similarly, in the case of peace-offerings following the sprinkling of the blood, he is referring to the original status of the meat before the sprinkling of the blood.

דִּשְׁמוּאֵל, הָכִי אִיתְּמַר, אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: וְהוּא שֶׁנָּדוּר וּבָא מֵאוֹתוֹ הַיּוֹם וְאֵילָךְ.

The Gemara responds that this is how the comment of Shmuel was stated: Shmuel said: And this is if he was continuously obligated by a vow from that day forward to abstain from meat and wine on the anniversary of his father’s death. Consequently, when he associates another day with the day of his father’s death, he expresses a vow based upon the current status of the day, and there is no proof with regard to the case of the meat of the peace-offering.

אָמַר רָבִינָא, תָּא שְׁמַע: ״כְּחַלַּת אַהֲרֹן״, ״וְכִתְרוּמָתוֹ״ — מוּתָּר. הָא ״כִּתְרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה״ — אָסוּר.

The Gemara cites another attempted proof. Ravina said: Come and hear that which was taught in the mishna (13b): If one declares an item to be like the ḥalla of Aaron, i.e., the portion of dough given to the priests, or like his teruma, the portion of agricultural produce given to priests, the item remains permitted. Although these items are prohibited to non-priests as soon as they are designated, they are considered forbidden by the Torah rather than forbidden by a vow. The Gemara infers: But if one declares an item to be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering, i.e., the four loaves of the thanks-offering that were eaten by the priests, the item is forbidden.

וְהָא תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה — לְאַחַר זְרִיקַת דָּמִים הִיא.

Having made this inference, Ravina comments: But the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering is designated only after the sprinkling of the blood. Consequently, the individual must have made his vow after the sprinkling of the blood, when these loaves are permitted to priests. If the vow nevertheless takes effect, it must be because the individual is referring to the original forbidden status of the loaves before the sprinkling of the blood. This indicates that one has in mind the original status of the item rather than its current status.

אֵימָא: ״כִּתְרוּמַת הַלִּשְׁכָּה״ — אָסוּר.

The Gemara refutes this: Say that when the mishna specifies that if one said the food should be like the teruma of Aaron it remains permitted it thereby indicates that if he said it should be like the collection of the Temple treasury chamber, which is also called a teruma and is always forbidden, the food becomes forbidden. However, one cannot infer from the mishna that if one declares the food to be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering the food becomes forbidden.

אֲבָל תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה מַאי — מוּתָּר? לִיתְנֵי לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה, וְכׇל שֶׁכֵּן תְּרוּמָתוֹ! הָא קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה — תְּרוּמָתוֹ הִיא.

The Gemara asks: But according to this, if one said the food should be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering, what, does the food remain permitted? If so, let it teach in the mishna that if one said the food should be like the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering it remains permitted even though the thanks-offering is forbidden by means of a vow, and one would know on his own that if he says the food should be like the teruma of Aaron, all the more so the food remains permitted. The Gemara responds: It teaches us this: Teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering is also referred to as his teruma and is therefore included in the mishna.

וְאִי בָּעֵית אֵימָא: תְּרוּמַת לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה נָמֵי קוֹדֶם זְרִיקַת דָּמִים הוּא. כְּגוֹן דְּאַפְרְשִׁינְהוּ בְּלֵישָׁה.

The Gemara offers an alternative response to Ravina’s attempted proof from the case of the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering, that one has in mind the original status of an item when one expresses a vow. And if you wish, say that the teruma of the loaves of the thanks-offering can also be designated before the sprinkling of the blood, for example, when he separated the teruma during the kneading of the dough. Consequently, the case may be where one makes the vow before the sprinkling of the blood, when the loaves are forbidden to all, and that is the reason the vow takes effect.

וְכִי הָא דְּאָמַר רַב טוֹבִי בַּר קִיסְנָא אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: לַחְמֵי תוֹדָה שֶׁאֲפָאָן בְּאַרְבַּע חַלּוֹת — יָצָא. וְהָכְתִיב אַרְבָּעִים! לְמִצְוָה.

And this is in accordance with that which Rav Tovi bar Kisna said that Shmuel said: If one baked the loaves of the thanks-offering as four loaves rather than the forty loaves that should ideally be baked, he has fulfilled his obligation. The Gemara asks: Isn’t it written that forty loaves must be brought with the thanks-offering, ten loaves of each of the four different types? The Gemara answers: One must bake forty loaves in order to fulfill the mitzva in the optimal fashion, but he has nevertheless fulfilled his obligation with four loaves, one of each type.

וְהָא בָּעֵי לְמִשְׁקַל תְּרוּמָה! וְכִי תֵּימָא דְּשָׁקֵיל חֲדָא רִיפְתָּא עַל כּוּלַּהּ — וְהָתְנַן: אֶחָד מִכׇּל קׇרְבָּן. שֶׁלֹּא יִטּוֹל מִקׇּרְבָּן עַל חֲבֵירוֹ! וְכִי תֵּימָא דְּשָׁקֵיל פְּרוּסָה מִכׇּל חַד וְחַד, וְהָתְנַן: ״אֶחָד״, שֶׁלֹּא יִטּוֹל פְּרוּסָה!

The Gemara asks: But he is required to take teruma, i.e., designate one loaf of each type to be given to the priests. And if you would say that he takes one loaf of bread of the four as teruma for all the others, but didn’t we learn in a mishna (Menaḥot 77b) with regard to the verse “And of it he shall present one out of each offering for a gift to the Lord; it shall be the priest’s” (Leviticus 7:14), that it indicates that he should not take from one offering, i.e., one type of loaf, for another? And if you would say that he takes a slice from each one of the four loaves and gives them to the priest, but didn’t we learn in that mishna that the word one in the verse indicates that he may not take a slice but rather a complete loaf?

אֶלָּא דְּאַפְרְשִׁינְהוּ בְּלֵישָׁה. דְּשָׁקֵיל חֲדָא מֵחָמֵץ, וַחֲדָא מִן חַלּוֹת, וַחֲדָא מִן רְקִיקִים, וַחֲדָא מִן רְבוּכָה.

Rather, it must be that he separated the teruma during the time of kneading. He took one piece of dough from the leavened bread, one from the loaves, one from the wafers, and one from the flour mixed with water and oil. After separating one tenth of each type of dough for the priest, he then baked the remainder into four loaves. Since it is possible to separate the teruma at the time of the kneading, before the sprinkling of the blood of the offering, it is possible that the case is one where he expressed the vow at this time. Consequently, there is no proof that one has in mind the original status of an offering rather than its current status when one expresses a vow after the sprinkling of the blood.

לֵימָא כְּתַנָּאֵי: ״הֲרֵי עָלַי כִּבְכוֹר״, רַבִּי יַעֲקֹב אוֹסֵר, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה מַתִּיר.

The Gemara suggests: Let us say that this question, whether one intends to extend the original or current status of an offering, is parallel to a dispute between tanna’im. If one says: This meat is prohibited to me like the meat of a firstborn, Rabbi Ya’akov renders the meat forbidden and Rabbi Yehuda renders it permitted.

הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִי נֵימָא לִפְנֵי זְרִיקַת דָּמִים, מַאי טַעְמָא דְמַאן דְּשָׁרֵי. וְאִי לְאַחַר זְרִיקַת דָּמִים, מַאי טַעְמָא דְּמַאן דְּאָסַר? אֶלָּא לָאו,

The Gemara clarifies: What are the circumstances of this case? If we say that he associates the object of his vow with the status of a firstborn animal before the sprinkling of the blood, when it is forbidden as a consecrated item, what is the rationale of the one who renders it permitted? And if he associates the object of his vow with the status of a firstborn animal after the sprinkling of the blood, when it belongs to the priest and is permitted to be eaten, what is the rationale of the one who renders it forbidden? Rather, is it not

Want to follow content and continue where you left off?

Create an account today to track your progress, mark what you’ve learned, and follow the shiurim that speak to you.

Clear all items from this list?

This will remove ALL the items in this section. You will lose any progress or history connected to them. This is irreversible.

Cancel
Yes, clear all

Are you sure you want to delete this item?

You will lose any progress or history connected to this item.

Cancel
Yes, delete