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Today's Daf Yomi

November 15, 2022 | כ״א במרחשוון תשפ״ג

  • This month's learning is sponsored by Leah Goldford in loving memory of her grandmothers, Tzipporah bat Yechezkiel, Rivka Yoda Bat Dovide Tzvi, Bracha Bayla bat Beryl, her father-in-law, Chaim Gershon ben Tzvi Aryeh, her mother, Devorah Rivkah bat Tuvia Hacohen, her cousins, Avrum Baer ben Mordechai, and Sharon bat Yaakov.

  • Masechet Nedarim is sponsored by Aviva and Benny Adler in honor of our mother Lorraine Kahane and in loving memory of our parents Joseph Kahane z"l, Miriam and Ari Adler z"l.

Nedarim 21

There are four kinds of vows listed in the Mishna that are not considered valid vows and therefore one would not need to go to a chacham to dissolve them. The next few mishnayot will bring examples of each of the four types. The first type is zeiruzin, vows used in negotiation, such as a vow that I will not sell/buy for less/more than a certain amount. First, the Gemara suggests that the Mishna follows Rabbi Tarfon’s position as quoted by Rabbi Yehuda that a nazir vow will not be effective unless one makes a definitive statement. Rava, however, proves from the language of the Mishna that it could fit with the opposing position as well, as the language indicates that they never really meant what they said as, from the start, they intended to compromise. This would make the vow invalid as his intent does not match his words. Ravina asked about a case where one took a vow that he won’t sell for less than 5 dinarim and the other won’t buy for more than 1 dinar. Are these valid vows or not? Rav Ashi answered from a Mishna (Nedarim 63) where one said to a friend who was pushing an invitation to eat at their house, “I won’t even drink a drop of water in your house,” and the ruling is that one can drink a drop of water, as the intent was clearly not to eat a meal. People often exaggerate in these ways and don’t really mean exactly what they say. Ravina rejects the proof and we are left with his question. Two different versions of a statement of Rav Asi are brought which either say the four types of vows mentioned in the Mishna need to be dissolved by a chacham or that other vows need to be dissolved in the manner that these four vows don’t apply, meaning with a petach (the chacham suggests that if the person has realized at the time of the vow that ____, the person would never have made the vow) and not with regret. Several cases show different approaches to dissolving vows – can one use regret or only a petach? Does one need a more tangible form of regret, such as, “Where there ten people there who would have appeased you, would you have made the vow?” This is a tannaitic debate as well. Four cases are brought of rabbis who permitted vows based on regret or based on a petach.

שניהם רוצין בשלשה דינרין


In this case, one may assume that both want to complete the deal at three dinars, and they did not intend to vow but only exaggerated for purposes of bargaining.


גמ׳ ארבעה נדרים התירו חכמים כו׳ אמר ליה רבי אבא בר ממל לרבי אמי אמרת לן משמיה דרבי יהודה נשיאה מאן תנא ארבעה נדרים רבי יהודה היא דאמר משום רבי טרפון לעולם אין אחד מהן נזיר לפי שלא ניתנה נזירות אלא להפלאה


GEMARA: The mishna states: The Sages dissolved four types of vows. Rabbi Abba bar Memel said to Rabbi Ami: You said to us in the name of Rabbi Yehuda Nesia: Who is the tanna who taught this mishna of four vows? It is the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda, who said in the name of Rabbi Tarfon: With regard to two people who entered into a wager, and each declared that he would become a nazirite if the other was right, then actually neither of them becomes a nazirite, because naziriteship is determined only by explicitness of intent. One cannot become a nazirite unless he vows clearly and with certitude. Here too, since the intent of the wagering parties was not actually to vow, the halakha is that the vow is invalid.


רבא אמר אפילו תימא רבנן מי קתני שניהן רצו שניהן רוצין קתני


Rava said: You can even say that the mishna is in accordance with the Rabbis, who disagree with Rabbi Yehuda. Does the mishna teach: Both wanted the price to be three dinars? It teaches: Both want, in the present tense, demonstrating that they would have been satisfied with that price from the outset and never intended to vow, so the vow is not binding.


אמר ליה רבינא לרב אשי אמר לו טפי מסלע והלה אמר בציר משקל נדרא הוי או זרוזין הוי


Ravina said to Rav Ashi: If the seller said to the buyer in the form of a vow that the price must remain more than a sela, and the other declared in the form of a vow that the price must remain less than a shekel, what is the halakha? Is this a vow, where each stands firmly in his position? Or perhaps this is also merely for encouragement?


אמר ליה תנינא היה מסרב בחבירו שיאכל אצלו ואמר לו קונם ביתך שאני נכנס טיפת צונן שאני טועם מותר ליכנס לביתו ולשתות הימנו צונן שלא נתכוון זה אלא לשום אכילה ושתיה


Rav Ashi said to him: We already learned about a similar case: If one was importuning another that he should eat with him and the other refused and said to him: Entering your house is konam for me, or: A drop of cold water is konam for me, and for that reason I will not taste it with you, it is permitted for him to enter his house and drink cold water since he intended it as a vow only for the purpose of eating and drinking a large amount but did not mean literally that he would not drink anything.


ואמאי והא טיפת צונן קאמר אלא משתעי איניש הכי הכא נמי משתעי איניש הכי


The Gemara asks: And why is this permitted? But he said: A drop of cold water, so how can you say that the vow is only with regard to drinking a large amount? Rather, it must be that a person speaks this way in exaggerated terms but does not mean literally what he says. Here also, in the case of the buyer and seller, a person speaks this way. He exaggerates and does not intend the literal meaning of his words, even though he was quite precise in his wording.


אמר ליה


Ravina said to him:


מי דמי גבי צונן צדיקים אומרים מעט ועושין הרבה


Are these cases comparable? Concerning the case of cold water, the righteous say little and do much. Therefore, when the host says to the other: Enter my house and drink a drop of cold water, he intended to offer him an entire meal. So too, the one who vows is referring to an entire meal and not literally to a drop of water. Therefore, he may drink a bit of cold water in the host’s house.


הכא ספיקא הוא דלמא פחות מסלע ויותר על שקל קאמר וזירוזין הוי או דלמא דוקא קאמר ונידרא הוי תבעי


But here it is uncertain. Perhaps when the seller says he will only accept more than a sela, he really intends to accept less than a sela, and when the buyer says he will not pay more than a shekel, he really intends to pay more than a shekel; and this is also an exhortation vow. Or, perhaps he meant specifically what he said, and it is a vow, because he did not intend to compromise on the price. The Gemara concludes: The dilemma remains unresolved.


אמר רב יהודה אמר רב אסי ארבעה נדרים הללו צריכין שאלה לחכם כי אמריתא קמיה דשמואל אמר תנא תני ארבעה נדרים התירו חכמים ואת אמרת צריכין שאלה לחכם


§ Rav Yehuda said that Rav Asi said: These four vows that are taught in the mishna still require a request made to a halakhic authority to dissolve them. Rav Yehuda continues: When I said this halakha before Shmuel, he said: The tanna teaches that the Sages dissolved four vows, and you say they require a request made to a halakhic authority?


רב יוסף מתני לה להא שמעתא בהאי לישנא אמר רב יהודה אמר רב אסי אין חכם רשאי להתיר אלא כעין ארבעה נדרים הללו קסבר אין פותחין בחרטה


Rav Yosef taught this halakha in this manner: Rav Yehuda said that Rav Asi said: A halakhic authority is able to dissolve only a vow that is similar to these four vows in that it was not intended to be a vow at all but was simply expressed in the language of a vow. In addition, he can dissolve a vow taken by mistake. The Gemara comments: It can be derived from here that he holds that a halakhic authority does not broach dissolution based on regret. A halakhic authority must search for a factor that, had the one making the vow been aware of it at the time of the vow, he would not have vowed. Simply expressing regret about the vow is an insufficient basis on which to dissolve it.


ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרב הונא אמר ליה לבך עלך אמר ליה לא ושרייה


The Gemara relates an incident that illustrates a different opinion concerning broaching dissolution based on regret. There was a certain person who came before Rav Huna to request dissolution of a vow. Rav Huna said to him: Is your heart upon you? Do you still have the same desire that you had when you made the vow? He said to him: No. And Rav Huna dissolved the vow for him. Since Rav Huna dissolved the vow based on regret alone, he evidently holds that one may broach dissolution based on regret.


ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרבה בר רב הונא אמר ליה אילו היו עשרה בני אדם שיפייסוך באותה שעה מי נדרת אמר ליה לא והתירו


Similarly, there was a certain person who came before Rabba bar Rav Huna to dissolve his vow. Rabba bar Rav Huna said to him: Had there been ten people who could have appeased you at the time you vowed, would you have made the vow? He said to him: No. And he dissolved the vow for him.


תניא רבי יהודה אומר אומרים לו לאדם לב זה עליך אם אמר לאו מתירין אותו רבי ישמעאל ברבי יוסי אומר משום אביו אומרים לו לאדם אילו היו עשרה בני אדם שיפייסוך באותה שעה מי נדרת אם אמר לאו מתירין אותו


It is taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yehuda says: The halakhic authorities who dissolve the vow say to the person who vowed: Is this heart, i.e., this desire, still upon you? If he says no, they dissolve it. Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, says in the name of his father: They say to the person who vowed: Had there been ten people who could have appeased you at the time, would you have made the vow? If he says no, they dissolve it.


(סימן אסי ואלעזר יוחנן וינאי)


The Gemara prefaces the next discussion with a mnemonic device: Asi and Elazar, Yoḥanan and Yannai.


ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרבי אסי אמר ליה כדו תהית אמר ליה לא ושרייה ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרבי אלעזר אמר ליה בעית נדור אמר ליה אילו לא מרגזין לי לא בעינן כלום אמר ליה תהא כבעית ההיא איתתא דאדרתה לברתה אתאי לקמיה דרבי יוחנן אמר לה אילו הוה ידעת דאמרן מגירתיך עלה דברתך


The Gemara relates that there was a certain person who came before Rabbi Asi to request dissolution of a vow. Rabbi Asi said to him: Do you have regret? He said to him rhetorically: No, do I not have regret? In other words, certainly I have regret. And he dissolved the vow for him. Similarly, there was a certain person who came before Rabbi Elazar, and Rabbi Elazar said to him: Did you want to vow? Was this really your desire? He said to Rabbi Elazar: If they had not angered me, I would not have wanted anything. He said to him: Let it be like you want, and the vow is dissolved. In another instance, there was a certain woman who took a vow with regard to her daughter that the daughter may not benefit from her, and she came before Rabbi Yoḥanan to dissolve the vow. He said to her: Had you known that your neighbors would say about your daughter:

  • This month's learning is sponsored by Leah Goldford in loving memory of her grandmothers, Tzipporah bat Yechezkiel, Rivka Yoda Bat Dovide Tzvi, Bracha Bayla bat Beryl, her father-in-law, Chaim Gershon ben Tzvi Aryeh, her mother, Devorah Rivkah bat Tuvia Hacohen, her cousins, Avrum Baer ben Mordechai, and Sharon bat Yaakov.

  • Masechet Nedarim is sponsored by Aviva and Benny Adler in honor of our mother Lorraine Kahane and in loving memory of our parents Joseph Kahane z"l, Miriam and Ari Adler z"l.

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Nedarim 21

שניהם רוצין בשלשה דינרין


In this case, one may assume that both want to complete the deal at three dinars, and they did not intend to vow but only exaggerated for purposes of bargaining.


גמ׳ ארבעה נדרים התירו חכמים כו׳ אמר ליה רבי אבא בר ממל לרבי אמי אמרת לן משמיה דרבי יהודה נשיאה מאן תנא ארבעה נדרים רבי יהודה היא דאמר משום רבי טרפון לעולם אין אחד מהן נזיר לפי שלא ניתנה נזירות אלא להפלאה


GEMARA: The mishna states: The Sages dissolved four types of vows. Rabbi Abba bar Memel said to Rabbi Ami: You said to us in the name of Rabbi Yehuda Nesia: Who is the tanna who taught this mishna of four vows? It is the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda, who said in the name of Rabbi Tarfon: With regard to two people who entered into a wager, and each declared that he would become a nazirite if the other was right, then actually neither of them becomes a nazirite, because naziriteship is determined only by explicitness of intent. One cannot become a nazirite unless he vows clearly and with certitude. Here too, since the intent of the wagering parties was not actually to vow, the halakha is that the vow is invalid.


רבא אמר אפילו תימא רבנן מי קתני שניהן רצו שניהן רוצין קתני


Rava said: You can even say that the mishna is in accordance with the Rabbis, who disagree with Rabbi Yehuda. Does the mishna teach: Both wanted the price to be three dinars? It teaches: Both want, in the present tense, demonstrating that they would have been satisfied with that price from the outset and never intended to vow, so the vow is not binding.


אמר ליה רבינא לרב אשי אמר לו טפי מסלע והלה אמר בציר משקל נדרא הוי או זרוזין הוי


Ravina said to Rav Ashi: If the seller said to the buyer in the form of a vow that the price must remain more than a sela, and the other declared in the form of a vow that the price must remain less than a shekel, what is the halakha? Is this a vow, where each stands firmly in his position? Or perhaps this is also merely for encouragement?


אמר ליה תנינא היה מסרב בחבירו שיאכל אצלו ואמר לו קונם ביתך שאני נכנס טיפת צונן שאני טועם מותר ליכנס לביתו ולשתות הימנו צונן שלא נתכוון זה אלא לשום אכילה ושתיה


Rav Ashi said to him: We already learned about a similar case: If one was importuning another that he should eat with him and the other refused and said to him: Entering your house is konam for me, or: A drop of cold water is konam for me, and for that reason I will not taste it with you, it is permitted for him to enter his house and drink cold water since he intended it as a vow only for the purpose of eating and drinking a large amount but did not mean literally that he would not drink anything.


ואמאי והא טיפת צונן קאמר אלא משתעי איניש הכי הכא נמי משתעי איניש הכי


The Gemara asks: And why is this permitted? But he said: A drop of cold water, so how can you say that the vow is only with regard to drinking a large amount? Rather, it must be that a person speaks this way in exaggerated terms but does not mean literally what he says. Here also, in the case of the buyer and seller, a person speaks this way. He exaggerates and does not intend the literal meaning of his words, even though he was quite precise in his wording.


אמר ליה


Ravina said to him:


מי דמי גבי צונן צדיקים אומרים מעט ועושין הרבה


Are these cases comparable? Concerning the case of cold water, the righteous say little and do much. Therefore, when the host says to the other: Enter my house and drink a drop of cold water, he intended to offer him an entire meal. So too, the one who vows is referring to an entire meal and not literally to a drop of water. Therefore, he may drink a bit of cold water in the host’s house.


הכא ספיקא הוא דלמא פחות מסלע ויותר על שקל קאמר וזירוזין הוי או דלמא דוקא קאמר ונידרא הוי תבעי


But here it is uncertain. Perhaps when the seller says he will only accept more than a sela, he really intends to accept less than a sela, and when the buyer says he will not pay more than a shekel, he really intends to pay more than a shekel; and this is also an exhortation vow. Or, perhaps he meant specifically what he said, and it is a vow, because he did not intend to compromise on the price. The Gemara concludes: The dilemma remains unresolved.


אמר רב יהודה אמר רב אסי ארבעה נדרים הללו צריכין שאלה לחכם כי אמריתא קמיה דשמואל אמר תנא תני ארבעה נדרים התירו חכמים ואת אמרת צריכין שאלה לחכם


§ Rav Yehuda said that Rav Asi said: These four vows that are taught in the mishna still require a request made to a halakhic authority to dissolve them. Rav Yehuda continues: When I said this halakha before Shmuel, he said: The tanna teaches that the Sages dissolved four vows, and you say they require a request made to a halakhic authority?


רב יוסף מתני לה להא שמעתא בהאי לישנא אמר רב יהודה אמר רב אסי אין חכם רשאי להתיר אלא כעין ארבעה נדרים הללו קסבר אין פותחין בחרטה


Rav Yosef taught this halakha in this manner: Rav Yehuda said that Rav Asi said: A halakhic authority is able to dissolve only a vow that is similar to these four vows in that it was not intended to be a vow at all but was simply expressed in the language of a vow. In addition, he can dissolve a vow taken by mistake. The Gemara comments: It can be derived from here that he holds that a halakhic authority does not broach dissolution based on regret. A halakhic authority must search for a factor that, had the one making the vow been aware of it at the time of the vow, he would not have vowed. Simply expressing regret about the vow is an insufficient basis on which to dissolve it.


ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרב הונא אמר ליה לבך עלך אמר ליה לא ושרייה


The Gemara relates an incident that illustrates a different opinion concerning broaching dissolution based on regret. There was a certain person who came before Rav Huna to request dissolution of a vow. Rav Huna said to him: Is your heart upon you? Do you still have the same desire that you had when you made the vow? He said to him: No. And Rav Huna dissolved the vow for him. Since Rav Huna dissolved the vow based on regret alone, he evidently holds that one may broach dissolution based on regret.


ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרבה בר רב הונא אמר ליה אילו היו עשרה בני אדם שיפייסוך באותה שעה מי נדרת אמר ליה לא והתירו


Similarly, there was a certain person who came before Rabba bar Rav Huna to dissolve his vow. Rabba bar Rav Huna said to him: Had there been ten people who could have appeased you at the time you vowed, would you have made the vow? He said to him: No. And he dissolved the vow for him.


תניא רבי יהודה אומר אומרים לו לאדם לב זה עליך אם אמר לאו מתירין אותו רבי ישמעאל ברבי יוסי אומר משום אביו אומרים לו לאדם אילו היו עשרה בני אדם שיפייסוך באותה שעה מי נדרת אם אמר לאו מתירין אותו


It is taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yehuda says: The halakhic authorities who dissolve the vow say to the person who vowed: Is this heart, i.e., this desire, still upon you? If he says no, they dissolve it. Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, says in the name of his father: They say to the person who vowed: Had there been ten people who could have appeased you at the time, would you have made the vow? If he says no, they dissolve it.


(סימן אסי ואלעזר יוחנן וינאי)


The Gemara prefaces the next discussion with a mnemonic device: Asi and Elazar, Yoḥanan and Yannai.


ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרבי אסי אמר ליה כדו תהית אמר ליה לא ושרייה ההוא דאתא לקמיה דרבי אלעזר אמר ליה בעית נדור אמר ליה אילו לא מרגזין לי לא בעינן כלום אמר ליה תהא כבעית ההיא איתתא דאדרתה לברתה אתאי לקמיה דרבי יוחנן אמר לה אילו הוה ידעת דאמרן מגירתיך עלה דברתך


The Gemara relates that there was a certain person who came before Rabbi Asi to request dissolution of a vow. Rabbi Asi said to him: Do you have regret? He said to him rhetorically: No, do I not have regret? In other words, certainly I have regret. And he dissolved the vow for him. Similarly, there was a certain person who came before Rabbi Elazar, and Rabbi Elazar said to him: Did you want to vow? Was this really your desire? He said to Rabbi Elazar: If they had not angered me, I would not have wanted anything. He said to him: Let it be like you want, and the vow is dissolved. In another instance, there was a certain woman who took a vow with regard to her daughter that the daughter may not benefit from her, and she came before Rabbi Yoḥanan to dissolve the vow. He said to her: Had you known that your neighbors would say about your daughter:

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