If there are beams on a ceiling that are not connected by tar or cement, what can be done to make these usable as s’chach? Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda debate whether or not this is a subject of debate between Beit Shamai and Beit Hillel. How is this different from their debate in the previous mishna regarding whether or not one can use wooden beams for s’chach? If the s’chach is made from metal skewers or beams from a bed, the sukkah is disqualified. But one fills in the space between the beams or skewers with good s’chach, and it is equal in size to the disqualified s’chach, then the sukkah is a good sukkah. How could this be if regarding walls for Shabbat we say that if the part that is breached is equal to the part that is standing, the wall is not a good wall? Why are beams of a bed susceptible to impurity (and therefore not able to be used as s’chach?
This month’s learning is sponsored by Adam, Carolyn, Michal, Josh, Benny, Izzy, Gali, Shim, Zoe, Zachy and Yehuda in loving memory of Judith Rosenfeld Hochstadter, Gittel bat Kreindel v’Binyamin BenZion on her second yahrzeit. “Her curiosity, humor, intellect and devout nature continues to inspire and hold us accountable. We miss her and think of her in all our pursuits, especially in our Hadran learning, where she would be glad to know that she didn’t have to boil more than 1 egg at a time!!”
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This month’s learning is sponsored by Adam, Carolyn, Michal, Josh, Benny, Izzy, Gali, Shim, Zoe, Zachy and Yehuda in loving memory of Judith Rosenfeld Hochstadter, Gittel bat Kreindel v’Binyamin BenZion on her second yahrzeit. “Her curiosity, humor, intellect and devout nature continues to inspire and hold us accountable. We miss her and think of her in all our pursuits, especially in our Hadran learning, where she would be glad to know that she didn’t have to boil more than 1 egg at a time!!”
Sukkah 15
מַתְנִי׳ תִּקְרָה שֶׁאֵין עָלֶיהָ מַעֲזִיבָה, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּית שַׁמַּאי אוֹמְרִים: מְפַקְפֵּק, וְנוֹטֵל אַחַת מִבֵּינְתַיִם. וּבֵית הִלֵּל אוֹמְרִים: מְפַקְפֵּק, אוֹ נוֹטֵל אַחַת מִבֵּינְתַיִם. רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: נוֹטֵל אַחַת מִבֵּינְתַיִם, וְאֵינוֹ מְפַקְפֵּק.
MISHNA: In the case of a roof made of boards that are four handbreadths wide upon which there is no coat of plaster, Rabbi Yehuda says that Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel disagree with regard to the manner in which to render it fit. Beit Shammai say: One moves each board, and then it is considered as though he placed the board there for the sake of the mitzva of sukka, and one then removes one board from among the boards and replaces it with fit roofing. Beit Hillel say: One need not perform both actions; rather, one must either move the boards or remove one from among them. Rabbi Meir says: One only removes one from among them and does not move the others.
גְּמָ׳ בִּשְׁלָמָא בֵּית הִלֵּל, טַעְמַיְיהוּ מִשּׁוּם ״תַּעֲשֶׂה״ וְלֹא מִן הֶעָשׂוּי. אִי מְפַקְפֵּק, עָבֵיד לֵיהּ מַעֲשֶׂה. אִי נוֹטֵל אַחַת מִבֵּינְתַיִם, עָבֵד בַּהּ מַעֲשֶׂה. אֶלָּא בֵּית שַׁמַּאי, מַאי טַעְמַיְיהוּ? אִי מִשּׁוּם ״תַּעֲשֶׂה״ וְלֹא מִן הֶעָשׂוּי — בַּחֲדָא סַגִּי! אִי מִשּׁוּם גְּזֵרַת תִּקְרָה — בְּנוֹטֵל אַחַת מִבֵּינְתַיִם סַגִּי!
GEMARA: The Gemara asks: Granted, according to Beit Hillel, their reason for initially prohibiting this roof is due to the principle: Prepare it, and not from that which has already been prepared. If one moves the boards, he performs an action. Likewise, if he removes one of the boards from among them, he also performs an action. Therefore, in both cases, he prepared the roofing and the sukka is fit. However, with regard to the opinion of Beit Shammai, what is the rationale for their prohibition against using the original ceiling for a sukka? If the rationale is also due to the principle: Prepare it, and not from that which has already been prepared, one action should suffice. Or if the rationale is due to the decree of the roof, lest one come to reside beneath a regular plastered ceiling inside a house, removing one board from among them should suffice.
לְעוֹלָם מִשּׁוּם גְּזֵרַת תִּקְרָה, וְהָכִי קָאָמְרִי: אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁמְּפַקְפֵּק, אִי נוֹטֵל אַחַת מִבֵּינְתַיִם — אִין, אִי לָא — לָא.
The Gemara answers: Actually, the rationale is due to the decree of the roof, and this is what they are saying: Although one moves the boards, if he removes one board from among them, yes, it is fit; if not, no, it is unfit. Moving the boards is inconsequential. Removing one board from among them is all that is necessary.
אִי הָכִי, אֵימָא סֵיפָא: רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר: נוֹטֵל אַחַת מִבֵּינְתַיִם, אֲבָל לֹא יְפַקְפֵּק — רַבִּי מֵאִיר הַיְינוּ בֵּית שַׁמַּאי!
The Gemara asks: If so, say the latter clause of the mishna: Rabbi Meir says: One removes one from among them but does not move the others. This indicates that the opinion of Rabbi Meir is identical to the opinion of Beit Shammai, as according to the above explanation, Beit Shammai also hold that removing one of the boards and replacing it with fit roofing can render the sukka fit. It is unreasonable to say that Rabbi Meir would hold in accordance with the opinion of Beit Shammai, which is rejected.
הָכִי קָאָמַר: לֹא נֶחְלְקוּ בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּבֵית הִלֵּל בְּדָבָר זֶה.
The Gemara answers: This is what Rabbi Meir is saying: Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel do not disagree on this matter. They agree that the boards are prohibited due to the decree of the roof and that only by removing one of the boards is the sukka rendered fit. Rabbi Meir disagrees with the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda that there is a dispute between Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel.
מַאי קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן? דְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר אִית לֵיהּ גְּזֵרַת תִּקְרָה, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה לֵית לֵיהּ גְּזֵרַת תִּקְרָה — וְהָא אִפְּלִיגוּ בַּהּ חֲדָא זִימְנָא! דִּתְנַן: מְסַכְּכִין בִּנְסָרִים, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה. וְרַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹסֵר.
The Gemara asks: What is the tanna of the mishna teaching us? Is it that Rabbi Meir is of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree of the roof and Rabbi Yehuda is of the opinion that the Sages did not issue the decree of the roof? But didn’t they disagree about this once, as we learned in the mishna above: One may roof the sukka with boards; this is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Meir prohibits their use. The Gemara explained that the dispute is whether or not the Sages issued the decree of the roof.
אָמַר רַבִּי חִיָּיא בַּר אַבָּא אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: רֵישָׁא — בִּנְסָרִים מְשׁוּפִּין עָסְקִינַן, וּמִשּׁוּם גְּזֵרַת כֵּלִים נָגְעוּ בָּהּ.
Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: That is not the dispute, as in the first clause, i.e., in the earlier mishna, we are dealing with the case of planed boards. The rationale for their disagreement is not due to the decree of the roof; but it is due to the decree of the vessels that they touched upon it. The dispute is whether or not the Sages issued a decree prohibiting the use of planed beams in roofing the sukka, although as flat wooden vessels they are not susceptible to ritual impurity, lest one come to roof the sukka with vessels that are susceptible to ritual impurity.
וּלְרַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב, דְּאָמַר: סִכְּכָהּ בְּחִיצִּין זְכָרִים — כְּשֵׁרָה. בִּנְקֵבוֹת — פְּסוּלָה, וְלָא גָּזַר זְכָרִים אַטּוּ נְקֵבוֹת. הָכָא נָמֵי לָא נִגְזַר נְסָרִים מְשׁוּפִּין אַטּוּ כֵּלִים!
The Gemara asks: And according to Rav Yehuda, who said that Rav said: If one roofed a sukka with convex arrow shafts, the sukka is fit, but if he roofed his sukka with concave arrow shafts, the sukka is unfit; and he did not issue a decree and prohibit roofing with convex shafts due to the prohibition against roofing with concave shafts, here too, let us not issue a decree and prohibit roofing with planed boards, due to the prohibition against roofing with actual vessels.
אֶלָּא עַל כׇּרְחָךְ רֵישָׁא פְּלִיגִי בִּגְזֵרַת תִּקְרָה, וְסֵיפָא פְּלִיגִי בִּגְזֵרַת תִּקְרָה. וְאִפְּלוֹגֵי בְּתַרְתֵּי זִימְנֵי לְמָה לִי?
Rather, according to Rav, perforce you must say that in the first clause of the mishna they disagree with regard to the decree of the roof, and in the latter clause, i.e., this mishna as well, they disagree with regard to the decree of the roof. Once again, the question arises: Why do I need them to disagree about the same issue twice?
סֵיפָא רַבִּי יְהוּדָה (הִיא), דְּקָא אֲמַר לֵיהּ לְרַבִּי מֵאִיר: אַמַּאי קָא אָסְרַתְּ בִּנְסָרִים — מִשּׁוּם גְּזֵרַת תִּקְרָה? הַאי סְבָרָא לְבֵית שַׁמַּאי הוּא דְּאִית לְהוּ, וּבֵית הִלֵּל לָא גָּזְרִי! וְאָמַר רַבִּי מֵאִיר: לֹא נֶחְלְקוּ בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּבֵית הִלֵּל בְּדָבָר זֶה.
The Gemara answers: Rather, the latter clause is the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda, who is saying to Rabbi Meir: Why do you prohibit roofing with boards? Is it due to the decree of the roof? That is the reason according to Beit Shammai, who are of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree. But, contrary to your opinion, Beit Hillel do not issue the decree. And Rabbi Meir said to Rabbi Yehuda: Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel did not disagree with regard to this matter at all. These are not two separate disputes; rather, it is one extended dispute.
הָנִיחָא לְרַב, דְּאָמַר מַחְלוֹקֶת בְּשֶׁיֵּשׁ בָּהֶן אַרְבָּעָה, דְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר אִית לֵיהּ גְּזֵרַת תִּקְרָה וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה לֵית לֵיהּ גְּזֵרַת תִּקְרָה. אֶלָּא שְׁמוּאֵל, דְּאָמַר בְּשֶׁאֵין בָּהֶן אַרְבָּעָה מַחְלוֹקֶת, אֲבָל יֵשׁ בָּהֶן אַרְבָּעָה — דִּבְרֵי הַכֹּל פְּסוּלָה, סֵיפָא בְּמַאי פְּלִיגִי?
The Gemara continues to ask: This works out well according to Rav, who said that the dispute is specifically in a case where the boards have four handbreadths in their width. He says that Rabbi Meir is of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree of the roof, and Rabbi Yehuda is not of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree of the roof. However, according to Shmuel, who said that the dispute is specifically in a case where the boards do not have four handbreadths in their width, but where they have four handbreadths in their width, everyone agrees that the sukka is unfit, and both Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda agree that the Sages issued the decree of the roof; if so, in the latter clause of the mishna, with regard to what matter do they disagree?
בְּבַיטּוֹלֵי תִּקְרָה קָא מִיפַּלְגִי: מָר סָבַר בָּטְלָה בְּהָכִי, וּמַר סָבַר בְּהָכִי לָא בָּטְלָה.
The Gemara answers: One may not use boards of this sort for roofing his sukka. Even according to Rabbi Yehuda, a sukka roofed in that manner is unfit, due to the decree of the roof. However, here, in the latter clause, it is with regard to negating an existing roof that consists of boards of this sort, in order to render the sukka fit that they disagree. One Sage, Rabbi Yehuda, holds: The ceiling is thereby negated, by moving the boards, and one Sage, Rabbi Meir, holds that the ceiling is not thereby negated unless he also removes one beam from among them.
מַתְנִי׳ הַמְקָרֶה סוּכָּתוֹ בְּשַׁפּוּדִין אוֹ בַּאֲרוּכּוֹת הַמִּטָּה, אִם יֵשׁ רֶיוַח בֵּינֵיהֶן כְּמוֹתָן — כְּשֵׁרָה. הַחוֹטֵט בְּגָדִישׁ לַעֲשׂוֹת לוֹ סוּכָּה — אֵינָהּ סוּכָּה.
MISHNA: In the case of one who roofs his sukka with metal skewers or with the long boards of the bed, which compose its frame, if there is space between each one of them equal to the width of the skewers or the boards, and if he places fit roofing in those spaces, the sukka is fit. In the case of one who hollows out and creates a space inside a stack of grain to establish a sukka for him, it is not a sukka.
גְּמָ׳ לֵימָא תֶּיהְוֵי תְּיוּבְתָּא דְּרַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ. דְּאִתְּמַר: פָּרוּץ כְּעוֹמֵד, רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: מוּתָּר. וְרַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אָמַר: אָסוּר!
GEMARA: Let us say, based on the mishna, that this will be a conclusive refutation of the opinion of Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, as it is stated that the amora’im disagreed concerning the following matter: With regard to the domains of Shabbat, if the breached segment is equal to the standing segment, is it deemed a partition or not? Rav Pappa said: It is permitted to carry within the partition; as long as the breached segment is not greater, it is considered a solid partition. Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, said: It is prohibited to carry within the partition, unless the standing portion is greater. Apparently, from the mishna, even if the fit roofing is equal to the unfit skewers and boards, the sukka is fit, contrary to the opinion of Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua.
אָמַר לְךָ רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: מַאי כְּמוֹתָן — בְּנִכְנָס וְיוֹצֵא.
The Gemara answers that Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, could have said to you: What is the meaning of: Like the skewers and the boards? It does not mean that the space between the skewers and boards equals the width of the skewers and boards themselves. It is referring to a case where the space is large enough so that the fit roofing can enter and emerge easily, i.e., it is wider than the unfit roofing. According to this interpretation, the mishna can be explained according to Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, as well. The mishna agrees that even if the standing and breached areas are equal, the sukka is unfit.
וְהָא אֶפְשָׁר לְצַמְצֵם! אָמַר רַבִּי אַמֵּי: בְּמַעֲדִיף.
The Gemara asks: But isn’t it possible to be precise? The mishna need not be understood in that manner, since it is possible to calibrate the width of the spaces to equal the width of the unfit roofing, as the mishna required no more than that. Rabbi Ami said: The mishna is referring to a case where one extends the width of the spaces beyond the width of the unfit roofing. The mishna deems the sukka fit only if the width of the spaces is greater than the width of the unfit roofing.
רָבָא אָמַר: אֲפִילּוּ תֵּימָא בְּשֶׁאֵין מַעֲדִיף, אִם הָיוּ נְתוּנִים שְׁתִי — נוֹתְנָן עֵרֶב, עֵרֶב — נוֹתְנָן שְׁתִי.
Rava said: Even if you say that the mishna is referring to a case where one does not extend the width of the spaces, and nevertheless, the fit roofing is greater than the unfit roofing, if the skewers were placed lengthwise across the sukka, one places the fit roofing widthwise, and if the skewers were placed widthwise, one places the fit roofing lengthwise. By doing so, the fit roofing overlaps the skewers at least somewhat; otherwise it would fall between the unfit roofing. Consequently, even if the space equals the unfit roofing, the fit roofing is greater than the unfit roofing.
אוֹ בַּאֲרוּכּוֹת הַמִּטָּה. לֵימָא מְסַיַּיע לֵיהּ לְרַבִּי אַמֵּי בַּר טַבְיוֹמֵי, דְּאָמַר רַבִּי אַמֵּי בַּר טַבְיוֹמֵי: סִכְּכָהּ בִּבְלָאֵי כֵלִים — פְּסוּלָה.
§ The mishna continues: Or with the long boards of the bed, which compose its frame, the sukka is unfit. The Gemara suggests: Let us say that the mishna supports the opinion of Rabbi Ami bar Tavyomei, as Rabbi Ami bar Tavyomei said: If one roofed the sukka with worn, incomplete, vessels, the sukka is unfit. Although these incomplete vessels are no longer susceptible to ritual impurity, they remain unfit because they were initially unfit for roofing. Proof can be adduced from the mishna: The long boards of the bed are no longer vessels but rather pieces from broken vessels; still, they may not be used for roofing the sukka.
כִּדְאָמַר רַבִּי חָנָן אָמַר רַבִּי: בַּאֲרוּכָּה וּשְׁתֵּי כְרָעַיִם, בִּקְצָרָה וּשְׁתֵּי כְרָעַיִם. הָכָא נָמֵי: בַּאֲרוּכָּה וּשְׁתֵּי כְרָעַיִם, בִּקְצָרָה וּשְׁתֵּי כְרָעַיִם.
The Gemara rejects this: The mishna is referring to a case similar to that which Rabbi Ḥanan said that Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said in another context: It is not referring to the long boards alone. Rather, it is referring to a case with the long board of the bed and two of the legs attached to it or to a case with the short board of the bed with two legs attached to it. In this case, the structure could be propped up against a wall and used as a bed. Here too, the mishna is referring to roofing with the long board and two legs or with the short board and two legs, which are still considered complete vessels.
הֵיכָא אִיתְּמַר דְּרַבִּי חָנָן אָמַר רַבִּי? אַהָא דִּתְנַן:
The Gemara asks: Where is it stated that which Rabbi Ḥanan said that Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said? The Gemara answers: As we learned in a mishna:
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It was fun but after 2-3 months people began to leave. I have continued. Since the cycle began Again I have joined the Teaneck women.. I find it most rewarding in so many ways. Thank you
New Jersey, United States
I heard about the syium in January 2020 & I was excited to start learning then the pandemic started. Learning Daf became something to focus on but also something stressful. As the world changed around me & my family I had to adjust my expectations for myself & the world. Daf Yomi & the Hadran podcast has been something I look forward to every day. It gives me a moment of centering & Judaism daily.
Denver, United States
When I began the previous cycle, I promised myself that if I stuck with it, I would reward myself with a trip to Israel. Little did I know that the trip would involve attending the first ever women’s siyum and being inspired by so many learners. I am now over 2 years into my second cycle and being part of this large, diverse, fascinating learning family has enhanced my learning exponentially.
Minnesota, United States
Attending the Siyyum in Jerusalem 26 months ago inspired me to become part of this community of learners. So many aspects of Jewish life have been illuminated by what we have learned in Seder Moed. My day is not complete without daf Yomi. I am so grateful to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Community.
Newton, United States
A beautiful world of Talmudic sages now fill my daily life with discussion and debate.
bringing alive our traditions and texts that has brought new meaning to my life.
I am a מגילת אסתר reader for women . the words in the Mishna of מסכת megillah 17a
הקורא את המגילה למפרע לא יצא were powerful to me.
I hope to have the zchut to complete the cycle for my 70th birthday.
Jerusalem, Israel
When I began learning Daf Yomi at the beginning of the current cycle, I was preparing for an upcoming surgery and thought that learning the Daf would be something positive I could do each day during my recovery, even if I accomplished nothing else. I had no idea what a lifeline learning the Daf would turn out to be in so many ways.
Lexington, MA, United States
Last cycle, I listened to parts of various מסכתות. When the הדרן סיום was advertised, I listened to Michelle on נידה. I knew that בע”ה with the next cycle I was in (ב”נ). As I entered the סיום (early), I saw the signs and was overcome with emotion. I was randomly seated in the front row, and I cried many times that night. My choice to learn דף יומי was affirmed. It is one of the best I have made!
אפרת, Israel
I began daf yomi in January 2020 with Brachot. I had made aliya 6 months before, and one of my post-aliya goals was to complete a full cycle. As a life-long Tanach teacher, I wanted to swim from one side of the Yam shel Torah to the other. Daf yomi was also my sanity through COVID. It was the way to marking the progression of time, and feel that I could grow and accomplish while time stopped.
Givat Zev, Israel
I’ve been learning since January 2020, and in June I started drawing a phrase from each daf. Sometimes it’s easy (e.g. plants), sometimes it’s very hard (e.g. korbanot), and sometimes it’s loads of fun (e.g. bird racing) to find something to draw. I upload my pictures from each masechet to #DafYomiArt. I am enjoying every step of the journey.
Ashdod, Israel
I LOVE learning the Daf. I started with Shabbat. I join the morning Zoom with Reb Michelle and it totally grounds my day. When Corona hit us in Israel, I decided that I would use the Daf to keep myself sane, especially during the days when we could not venture out more than 300 m from our home. Now my husband and I have so much new material to talk about! It really is the best part of my day!
Hashmonaim, Israel
I started learning at the start of this cycle, and quickly fell in love. It has become such an important part of my day, enriching every part of my life.
Toronto, Canada
Retirement and Covid converged to provide me with the opportunity to commit to daily Talmud study in October 2020. I dove into the middle of Eruvin and continued to navigate Seder Moed, with Rabannit Michelle as my guide. I have developed more confidence in my learning as I completed each masechet and look forward to completing the Daf Yomi cycle so that I can begin again!
San Diego, United States
תמיד רציתי. למדתי גמרא בבית ספר בטורונטו קנדה. עליתי ארצה ולמדתי שזה לא מקובל. הופתעתי.
יצאתי לגימלאות לפני שנתיים וזה מאפשר את המחוייבות לדף יומי.
עבורי ההתמדה בלימוד מעגן אותי בקשר שלי ליהדות. אני תמיד מחפשת ותמיד. מוצאת מקור לקשר. ללימוד חדש ומחדש. קשר עם נשים לומדות מעמיק את החוויה ומשמעותית מאוד.
מיתר, ישראל
My husband learns Daf, my son learns Daf, my son-in-law learns Daf.
When I read about Hadran’s Siyyum HaShas 2 years ago, I thought- I can learn Daf too!
I had learned Gemara in Hillel HS in NJ, & I remembered loving it.
Rabbanit Michelle & Hadran have opened my eyes & expanding my learning so much in the past few years. We can now discuss Gemara as a family.
This was a life saver during Covid
Brooklyn, NY, United States
I was inspired to start learning after attending the 2020 siyum in Binyanei Hauma. It has been a great experience for me. It’s amazing to see the origins of stories I’ve heard and rituals I’ve participated in my whole life. Even when I don’t understand the daf itself, I believe that the commitment to learning every day is valuable and has multiple benefits. And there will be another daf tomorrow!
Jerusalem, Israel
Studying has changed my life view on הלכה and יהדות and time. It has taught me bonudaries of the human nature and honesty of our sages in their discourse to try and build a nation of caring people .
Kfar Saba, Israel
I started Daf during the pandemic. I listened to a number of podcasts by various Rebbeim until one day, I discovered Rabbanit Farbers podcast. Subsequently I joined the Hadran family in Eruvin. Not the easiest place to begin, Rabbanit Farber made it all understandable and fun. The online live group has bonded together and have really become a supportive, encouraging family.
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
I learned Mishnayot more than twenty years ago and started with Gemara much later in life. Although I never managed to learn Daf Yomi consistently, I am learning since some years Gemara in depth and with much joy. Since last year I am studying at the International Halakha Scholars Program at the WIHL. I often listen to Rabbanit Farbers Gemara shiurim to understand better a specific sugyiah. I am grateful for the help and inspiration!
Berlin, Germany
I started learning daf yomi at the beginning of this cycle. As the pandemic evolved, it’s been so helpful to me to have this discipline every morning to listen to the daf podcast after I’ve read the daf; learning about the relationships between the rabbis and the ways they were constructing our Jewish religion after the destruction of the Temple. I’m grateful to be on this journey!
Teaneck NJ, United States
Sukkah 15
ΧΦ·ΧͺΦ°Χ Φ΄ΧΧ³ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ Χ©ΧΦΆΧΦ΅ΧΧ Χ’ΦΈΧΦΆΧΧΦΈ ΧΦ·Χ’Φ²ΧΦ΄ΧΧΦΈΧ, Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ ΧΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ¨: ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧͺ Χ©ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ ΧΧΦΉΧΦ°Χ¨Φ΄ΧΧ: ΧΦ°Χ€Φ·Χ§Φ°Χ€ΦΌΦ΅Χ§, ΧΦ°Χ ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦ·Χͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ°ΧͺΦ·ΧΦ΄Χ. ΧΦΌΧΦ΅ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΧΦΉΧΦ°Χ¨Φ΄ΧΧ: ΧΦ°Χ€Φ·Χ§Φ°Χ€ΦΌΦ΅Χ§, ΧΧΦΉ Χ ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦ·Χͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ°ΧͺΦ·ΧΦ΄Χ. Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨ ΧΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ¨: Χ ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦ·Χͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ°ΧͺΦ·ΧΦ΄Χ, ΧΦ°ΧΦ΅ΧΧ ΧΦΉ ΧΦ°Χ€Φ·Χ§Φ°Χ€ΦΌΦ΅Χ§.
MISHNA: In the case of a roof made of boards that are four handbreadths wide upon which there is no coat of plaster, Rabbi Yehuda says that Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel disagree with regard to the manner in which to render it fit. Beit Shammai say: One moves each board, and then it is considered as though he placed the board there for the sake of the mitzva of sukka, and one then removes one board from among the boards and replaces it with fit roofing. Beit Hillel say: One need not perform both actions; rather, one must either move the boards or remove one from among them. Rabbi Meir says: One only removes one from among them and does not move the others.
ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧ³ ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ©ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ, ΧΦ·Χ’Φ°ΧΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΧΧΦΌ ΧΦ΄Χ©ΦΌΧΧΦΌΧ Χ΄ΧͺΦΌΦ·Χ’Φ²Χ©ΧΦΆΧΧ΄ ΧΦ°ΧΦΉΧ ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΆΧ’ΦΈΧ©ΧΧΦΌΧ. ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦ°Χ€Φ·Χ§Φ°Χ€ΦΌΦ΅Χ§, Χ’ΦΈΧΦ΅ΧΧ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦ·Χ’Φ²Χ©ΧΦΆΧ. ΧΦ΄Χ Χ ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦ·Χͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ°ΧͺΦ·ΧΦ΄Χ, Χ’ΦΈΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΦΌ ΧΦ·Χ’Φ²Χ©ΧΦΆΧ. ΧΦΆΧΦΌΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧͺ Χ©ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ, ΧΦ·ΧΧ ΧΦ·Χ’Φ°ΧΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΧΧΦΌ? ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΄Χ©ΦΌΧΧΦΌΧ Χ΄ΧͺΦΌΦ·Χ’Φ²Χ©ΧΦΆΧΧ΄ ΧΦ°ΧΦΉΧ ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΆΧ’ΦΈΧ©ΧΧΦΌΧ β ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΦ²ΧΦΈΧ Χ‘Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ! ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΄Χ©ΦΌΧΧΦΌΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ β ΧΦΌΦ°Χ ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦ·Χͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ°ΧͺΦ·ΧΦ΄Χ Χ‘Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ!
GEMARA: The Gemara asks: Granted, according to Beit Hillel, their reason for initially prohibiting this roof is due to the principle: Prepare it, and not from that which has already been prepared. If one moves the boards, he performs an action. Likewise, if he removes one of the boards from among them, he also performs an action. Therefore, in both cases, he prepared the roofing and the sukka is fit. However, with regard to the opinion of Beit Shammai, what is the rationale for their prohibition against using the original ceiling for a sukka? If the rationale is also due to the principle: Prepare it, and not from that which has already been prepared, one action should suffice. Or if the rationale is due to the decree of the roof, lest one come to reside beneath a regular plastered ceiling inside a house, removing one board from among them should suffice.
ΧΦ°Χ’ΧΦΉΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΄Χ©ΦΌΧΧΦΌΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ, ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ΄Χ Χ§ΦΈΧΦΈΧΦ°Χ¨Φ΄Χ: ΧΦ·Χ£ Χ’Φ·Χ Χ€ΦΌΦ΄Χ Χ©ΧΦΆΧΦΌΦ°Χ€Φ·Χ§Φ°Χ€ΦΌΦ΅Χ§, ΧΦ΄Χ Χ ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦ·Χͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ°ΧͺΦ·ΧΦ΄Χ β ΧΦ΄ΧΧ, ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΈΧ β ΧΦΈΧ.
The Gemara answers: Actually, the rationale is due to the decree of the roof, and this is what they are saying: Although one moves the boards, if he removes one board from among them, yes, it is fit; if not, no, it is unfit. Moving the boards is inconsequential. Removing one board from among them is all that is necessary.
ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΈΧΦ΄Χ, ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΈΧ Χ‘Φ΅ΧΧ€ΦΈΧ: Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨ ΧΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ¨: Χ ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦ·Χͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ°ΧͺΦ·ΧΦ΄Χ, ΧΦ²ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΉΧ ΧΦ°Χ€Φ·Χ§Φ°Χ€ΦΌΦ΅Χ§ β Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨ ΧΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΧ ΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧͺ Χ©ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ!
The Gemara asks: If so, say the latter clause of the mishna: Rabbi Meir says: One removes one from among them but does not move the others. This indicates that the opinion of Rabbi Meir is identical to the opinion of Beit Shammai, as according to the above explanation, Beit Shammai also hold that removing one of the boards and replacing it with fit roofing can render the sukka fit. It is unreasonable to say that Rabbi Meir would hold in accordance with the opinion of Beit Shammai, which is rejected.
ΧΦΈΧΦ΄Χ Χ§ΦΈΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨: ΧΦΉΧ Χ ΦΆΧΦ°ΧΦ°Χ§ΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧͺ Χ©ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ ΧΦΌΧΦ΅ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦΈΧ¨ ΧΦΆΧ.
The Gemara answers: This is what Rabbi Meir is saying: Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel do not disagree on this matter. They agree that the boards are prohibited due to the decree of the roof and that only by removing one of the boards is the sukka rendered fit. Rabbi Meir disagrees with the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda that there is a dispute between Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel.
ΧΦ·ΧΧ Χ§ΦΈΧ ΧΦ·Χ©ΧΦ°ΧΦ·Χ’ ΧΦ·Χ? ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨ ΧΦ΄ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ, ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΅ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ β ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΄Χ€ΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΦΌ ΧΦ²ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΄ΧΧΦ°Χ ΦΈΧ! ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧͺΦ°Χ Φ·Χ: ΧΦ°Χ‘Φ·ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧΧ ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ Φ°Χ‘ΦΈΧ¨Φ΄ΧΧ, ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ΅Χ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ. ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨ ΧΧΦΉΧ‘Φ΅Χ¨.
The Gemara asks: What is the tanna of the mishna teaching us? Is it that Rabbi Meir is of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree of the roof and Rabbi Yehuda is of the opinion that the Sages did not issue the decree of the roof? But didnβt they disagree about this once, as we learned in the mishna above: One may roof the sukka with boards; this is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Meir prohibits their use. The Gemara explained that the dispute is whether or not the Sages issued the decree of the roof.
ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦΈΧΧ ΧΦΌΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦΈΧ ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΧΦΉΧΦΈΧ ΦΈΧ: Χ¨Φ΅ΧΧ©ΧΦΈΧ β ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ Φ°Χ‘ΦΈΧ¨Φ΄ΧΧ ΧΦ°Χ©ΧΧΦΌΧ€ΦΌΦ΄ΧΧ Χ’ΦΈΧ‘Φ°Χ§Φ΄ΧΧ Φ·Χ, ΧΦΌΧΦ΄Χ©ΦΌΧΧΦΌΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ Χ ΦΈΧΦ°Χ’ΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦΌ.
Rabbi αΈ€iyya bar Abba said that Rabbi YoαΈ₯anan said: That is not the dispute, as in the first clause, i.e., in the earlier mishna, we are dealing with the case of planed boards. The rationale for their disagreement is not due to the decree of the roof; but it is due to the decree of the vessels that they touched upon it. The dispute is whether or not the Sages issued a decree prohibiting the use of planed beams in roofing the sukka, although as flat wooden vessels they are not susceptible to ritual impurity, lest one come to roof the sukka with vessels that are susceptible to ritual impurity.
ΧΦΌΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·Χ, ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨: Χ‘Φ΄ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¦ΦΌΦ΄ΧΧ ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ¨Φ΄ΧΧ β ΧΦΌΦ°Χ©ΧΦ΅Χ¨ΦΈΧ. ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ Φ°Χ§Φ΅ΧΧΦΉΧͺ β Χ€ΦΌΦ°Χ‘ΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ, ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ¨Φ΄ΧΧ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΧΦΌ Χ Φ°Χ§Φ΅ΧΧΦΉΧͺ. ΧΦΈΧΦΈΧ Χ ΦΈΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦΈΧ Χ Φ΄ΧΦ°ΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ Φ°Χ‘ΦΈΧ¨Φ΄ΧΧ ΧΦ°Χ©ΧΧΦΌΧ€ΦΌΦ΄ΧΧ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ!
The Gemara asks: And according to Rav Yehuda, who said that Rav said: If one roofed a sukka with convex arrow shafts, the sukka is fit, but if he roofed his sukka with concave arrow shafts, the sukka is unfit; and he did not issue a decree and prohibit roofing with convex shafts due to the prohibition against roofing with concave shafts, here too, let us not issue a decree and prohibit roofing with planed boards, due to the prohibition against roofing with actual vessels.
ΧΦΆΧΦΌΦΈΧ Χ’Φ·Χ ΧΦΌΧΧ¨Φ°ΧΦΈΧΦ° Χ¨Φ΅ΧΧ©ΧΦΈΧ Χ€ΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ, ΧΦ°Χ‘Φ΅ΧΧ€ΦΈΧ Χ€ΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ. ΧΦ°ΧΦ΄Χ€ΦΌΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧͺΦ·Χ¨Φ°ΧͺΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦ΄ΧΧΦ°Χ Φ΅Χ ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΄Χ?
Rather, according to Rav, perforce you must say that in the first clause of the mishna they disagree with regard to the decree of the roof, and in the latter clause, i.e., this mishna as well, they disagree with regard to the decree of the roof. Once again, the question arises: Why do I need them to disagree about the same issue twice?
Χ‘Φ΅ΧΧ€ΦΈΧ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ (ΧΦ΄ΧΧ), ΧΦΌΦ°Χ§ΦΈΧ ΧΦ²ΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨: ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ Χ§ΦΈΧ ΧΦΈΧ‘Φ°Χ¨Φ·ΧͺΦΌΦ° ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ Φ°Χ‘ΦΈΧ¨Φ΄ΧΧ β ΧΦ΄Χ©ΦΌΧΧΦΌΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ? ΧΦ·ΧΧ Χ‘Φ°ΧΦΈΧ¨ΦΈΧ ΧΦ°ΧΦ΅ΧΧͺ Χ©ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ ΧΧΦΌΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧΧͺ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌ, ΧΦΌΧΦ΅ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦ°Χ¨Φ΄Χ! ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨: ΧΦΉΧ Χ ΦΆΧΦ°ΧΦ°Χ§ΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧͺ Χ©ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ ΧΦΌΧΦ΅ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΄ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦΈΧ¨ ΧΦΆΧ.
The Gemara answers: Rather, the latter clause is the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda, who is saying to Rabbi Meir: Why do you prohibit roofing with boards? Is it due to the decree of the roof? That is the reason according to Beit Shammai, who are of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree. But, contrary to your opinion, Beit Hillel do not issue the decree. And Rabbi Meir said to Rabbi Yehuda: Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel did not disagree with regard to this matter at all. These are not two separate disputes; rather, it is one extended dispute.
ΧΦΈΧ Φ΄ΧΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·Χ, ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧ§ΦΆΧͺ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ©ΧΦΆΧΦΌΦ΅Χ©Χ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦΆΧ ΧΦ·Χ¨Φ°ΧΦΌΦΈΧ’ΦΈΧ, ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ¨ ΧΦ΄ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΅ΧΧͺ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ¨Φ·Χͺ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ. ΧΦΆΧΦΌΦΈΧ Χ©ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦ΅Χ, ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ©ΧΦΆΧΦ΅ΧΧ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦΆΧ ΧΦ·Χ¨Φ°ΧΦΌΦΈΧ’ΦΈΧ ΧΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧ§ΦΆΧͺ, ΧΦ²ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΅Χ©Χ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦΆΧ ΧΦ·Χ¨Φ°ΧΦΌΦΈΧ’ΦΈΧ β ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ΅Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦΉΧ Χ€ΦΌΦ°Χ‘ΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ, Χ‘Φ΅ΧΧ€ΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ·ΧΧ Χ€ΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧΧΦ΄Χ?
The Gemara continues to ask: This works out well according to Rav, who said that the dispute is specifically in a case where the boards have four handbreadths in their width. He says that Rabbi Meir is of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree of the roof, and Rabbi Yehuda is not of the opinion that the Sages issued the decree of the roof. However, according to Shmuel, who said that the dispute is specifically in a case where the boards do not have four handbreadths in their width, but where they have four handbreadths in their width, everyone agrees that the sukka is unfit, and both Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda agree that the Sages issued the decree of the roof; if so, in the latter clause of the mishna, with regard to what matter do they disagree?
ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ·ΧΧΦΌΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧͺΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ Χ§ΦΈΧ ΧΦ΄ΧΧ€ΦΌΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΦ΄Χ: ΧΦΈΧ¨ Χ‘ΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ΄Χ, ΧΦΌΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ‘ΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦΈΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ.
The Gemara answers: One may not use boards of this sort for roofing his sukka. Even according to Rabbi Yehuda, a sukka roofed in that manner is unfit, due to the decree of the roof. However, here, in the latter clause, it is with regard to negating an existing roof that consists of boards of this sort, in order to render the sukka fit that they disagree. One Sage, Rabbi Yehuda, holds: The ceiling is thereby negated, by moving the boards, and one Sage, Rabbi Meir, holds that the ceiling is not thereby negated unless he also removes one beam from among them.
ΧΦ·ΧͺΦ°Χ Φ΄ΧΧ³ ΧΦ·ΧΦ°Χ§ΦΈΧ¨ΦΆΧ Χ‘ΧΦΌΧΦΌΦΈΧͺΧΦΉ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ©ΧΦ·Χ€ΦΌΧΦΌΧΦ΄ΧΧ ΧΧΦΉ ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΦ²Χ¨ΧΦΌΧΦΌΧΦΉΧͺ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦΌΦΈΧ, ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦ΅Χ©Χ Χ¨ΦΆΧΧΦ·Χ ΧΦΌΦ΅ΧΧ Φ΅ΧΧΦΆΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧͺΦΈΧ β ΧΦΌΦ°Χ©ΧΦ΅Χ¨ΦΈΧ. ΧΦ·ΧΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ΄ΧΧ©Χ ΧΦ·Χ’Φ²Χ©ΧΧΦΉΧͺ ΧΧΦΉ Χ‘ΧΦΌΧΦΌΦΈΧ β ΧΦ΅ΧΧ ΦΈΧΦΌ Χ‘ΧΦΌΧΦΌΦΈΧ.
MISHNA: In the case of one who roofs his sukka with metal skewers or with the long boards of the bed, which compose its frame, if there is space between each one of them equal to the width of the skewers or the boards, and if he places fit roofing in those spaces, the sukka is fit. In the case of one who hollows out and creates a space inside a stack of grain to establish a sukka for him, it is not a sukka.
ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧ³ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΈΧ ΧͺΦΌΦΆΧΧΦ°ΧΦ΅Χ ΧͺΦΌΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦ°ΧͺΦΌΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ·Χ ΧΧΦΌΧ ΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ·Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧ©ΧΦ»Χ’Φ·. ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ΄ΧͺΦΌΦ°ΧΦ·Χ¨: Χ€ΦΌΦΈΧ¨ΧΦΌΧ₯ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ’ΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ, Χ¨Φ·Χ Χ€ΦΌΦΈΧ€ΦΌΦΈΧ ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨: ΧΧΦΌΧͺΦΌΦΈΧ¨. ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·Χ ΧΧΦΌΧ ΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ·Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧ©ΧΦ»Χ’Φ· ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨: ΧΦΈΧ‘ΧΦΌΧ¨!
GEMARA: Let us say, based on the mishna, that this will be a conclusive refutation of the opinion of Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, as it is stated that the amoraβim disagreed concerning the following matter: With regard to the domains of Shabbat, if the breached segment is equal to the standing segment, is it deemed a partition or not? Rav Pappa said: It is permitted to carry within the partition; as long as the breached segment is not greater, it is considered a solid partition. Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, said: It is prohibited to carry within the partition, unless the standing portion is greater. Apparently, from the mishna, even if the fit roofing is equal to the unfit skewers and boards, the sukka is fit, contrary to the opinion of Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua.
ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦ°ΧΦΈ Χ¨Φ·Χ ΧΧΦΌΧ ΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ·Χ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧ©ΧΦ»Χ’Φ·: ΧΦ·ΧΧ ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧͺΦΈΧ β ΧΦΌΦ°Χ Φ΄ΧΦ°Χ ΦΈΧ‘ ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧ¦Φ΅Χ.
The Gemara answers that Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, could have said to you: What is the meaning of: Like the skewers and the boards? It does not mean that the space between the skewers and boards equals the width of the skewers and boards themselves. It is referring to a case where the space is large enough so that the fit roofing can enter and emerge easily, i.e., it is wider than the unfit roofing. According to this interpretation, the mishna can be explained according to Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, as well. The mishna agrees that even if the standing and breached areas are equal, the sukka is unfit.
ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΆΧ€Φ°Χ©ΧΦΈΧ¨ ΧΦ°Χ¦Φ·ΧΦ°Χ¦Φ΅Χ! ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ: ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦ·Χ’Φ²ΧΦ΄ΧΧ£.
The Gemara asks: But isnβt it possible to be precise? The mishna need not be understood in that manner, since it is possible to calibrate the width of the spaces to equal the width of the unfit roofing, as the mishna required no more than that. Rabbi Ami said: The mishna is referring to a case where one extends the width of the spaces beyond the width of the unfit roofing. The mishna deems the sukka fit only if the width of the spaces is greater than the width of the unfit roofing.
Χ¨ΦΈΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨: ΧΦ²Χ€Φ΄ΧΧΦΌΧΦΌ ΧͺΦΌΦ΅ΧΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ©ΧΦΆΧΦ΅ΧΧ ΧΦ·Χ’Φ²ΧΦ΄ΧΧ£, ΧΦ΄Χ ΧΦΈΧΧΦΌ Χ Φ°ΧͺΧΦΌΧ Φ΄ΧΧ Χ©ΧΦ°ΧͺΦ΄Χ β Χ ΧΦΉΧͺΦ°Χ ΦΈΧ Χ’Φ΅Χ¨ΦΆΧ, Χ’Φ΅Χ¨ΦΆΧ β Χ ΧΦΉΧͺΦ°Χ ΦΈΧ Χ©ΧΦ°ΧͺΦ΄Χ.
Rava said: Even if you say that the mishna is referring to a case where one does not extend the width of the spaces, and nevertheless, the fit roofing is greater than the unfit roofing, if the skewers were placed lengthwise across the sukka, one places the fit roofing widthwise, and if the skewers were placed widthwise, one places the fit roofing lengthwise. By doing so, the fit roofing overlaps the skewers at least somewhat; otherwise it would fall between the unfit roofing. Consequently, even if the space equals the unfit roofing, the fit roofing is greater than the unfit roofing.
ΧΧΦΉ ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΦ²Χ¨ΧΦΌΧΦΌΧΦΉΧͺ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦΌΦΈΧ. ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ°Χ‘Φ·ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΧ’ ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΌ ΧΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦΌΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ, ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦ·ΧΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦΌΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦ·ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΉΧΦ΅Χ: Χ‘Φ΄ΧΦΌΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦΌ ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ΅Χ ΧΦ΅ΧΦ΄ΧΧ β Χ€ΦΌΦ°Χ‘ΧΦΌΧΦΈΧ.
Β§ The mishna continues: Or with the long boards of the bed, which compose its frame, the sukka is unfit. The Gemara suggests: Let us say that the mishna supports the opinion of Rabbi Ami bar Tavyomei, as Rabbi Ami bar Tavyomei said: If one roofed the sukka with worn, incomplete, vessels, the sukka is unfit. Although these incomplete vessels are no longer susceptible to ritual impurity, they remain unfit because they were initially unfit for roofing. Proof can be adduced from the mishna: The long boards of the bed are no longer vessels but rather pieces from broken vessels; still, they may not be used for roofing the sukka.
ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧΦ°ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦΈΧ ΦΈΧ ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ: ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΦ²Χ¨ΧΦΌΧΦΌΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΧ©ΧΦ°ΧͺΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ’Φ·ΧΦ΄Χ, ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¦ΦΈΧ¨ΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΧ©ΧΦ°ΧͺΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ’Φ·ΧΦ΄Χ. ΧΦΈΧΦΈΧ Χ ΦΈΧΦ΅Χ: ΧΦΌΦ·ΧΦ²Χ¨ΧΦΌΧΦΌΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΧ©ΧΦ°ΧͺΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ’Φ·ΧΦ΄Χ, ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ§Φ°Χ¦ΦΈΧ¨ΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΧ©ΧΦ°ΧͺΦΌΦ΅Χ ΧΦ°Χ¨ΦΈΧ’Φ·ΧΦ΄Χ.
The Gemara rejects this: The mishna is referring to a case similar to that which Rabbi αΈ€anan said that Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said in another context: It is not referring to the long boards alone. Rather, it is referring to a case with the long board of the bed and two of the legs attached to it or to a case with the short board of the bed with two legs attached to it. In this case, the structure could be propped up against a wall and used as a bed. Here too, the mishna is referring to roofing with the long board and two legs or with the short board and two legs, which are still considered complete vessels.
ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦΈΧ ΧΦ΄ΧΧͺΦΌΦ°ΧΦ·Χ¨ ΧΦΌΦ°Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ ΧΦΈΧ ΦΈΧ ΧΦΈΧΦ·Χ¨ Χ¨Φ·ΧΦΌΦ΄Χ? ΧΦ·ΧΦΈΧ ΧΦΌΦ΄ΧͺΦ°Χ Φ·Χ:
The Gemara asks: Where is it stated that which Rabbi αΈ€anan said that Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said? The Gemara answers: As we learned in a mishna:
