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Today's Daf Yomi

December 6, 2022 | י״ב בכסלו תשפ״ג

  • Masechet Nedarim is sponsored by Aviva and Benny Adler in honor of our mother Lorraine Kahane and in loving memory of our parents Joseph Kahane z"l, Miriam and Ari Adler z"l.

Nedarim 42

This week’s learning is sponsored by the Mondrow family in memory of Irving “poppy” Mauskopf, Yechezkel ben Rachel and Avraham. “A man who had complete faith in Hashem. He exemplified the quote: “Who is rich? One who is content with his lot. May his neshama had an Aliyah.”
Today’s daf is sponsored by David and Mitzi Geffen in loving memory of Mitzi’s father, Jack Lock, of Harrisburg PA, who passed away two years ago. “He was so proud that all 4 of his children made Aliyah to Israel, and that his “tribe” grew during his lifetime to nearly 100 family members, spanning 3 generations all in Israel. He was a generous and loving husband, father, grandfather, uncle, and brother who is sorely missed.”
Today’s daf is sponsored by Alex Lipton in honor of his father, Richie. “Happy Hebrew birthday! Wishing you a great year ahead!”
If one vowed to not benefit from another, one cannot go into the other’s field and pick fruits. But if the vow was during the sabbatical (shmita) year, one still cannot go in the field but one can pick fruits that are hanging outside the field. If the wording of the vow included only food, then one can go into the field. Statements of Rav and Shmuel and Rabbi Yochanan and Reish Lakish are quoted, regarding a particular issue in our Mishna. If the vow was made before the shmita year, and then the shmita year starts, since the fruits then become ownerless, are they still forbidden or are they no longer considered included in the vow? Initially, the Gemara thinks that the two groups of rabbis disagree with each other about whether or not one can forbid something now even when it is (at a later point) no longer in their domain. However, this does not take into account that each group of rabbis spoke about a different language used – one had said “this property” and the other “my property.” A further difficulty is raised but is resolved. A different way of understanding the debate is suggested but also rejected. Eventually, they explain that there is no debate at all – each group of rabbis was referring to a different case, and, in fact, they all agree! If one’s field also becomes ownerless in the shmita year so that people can come into their field to collect fruits, why is one who is forbidden to benefit not permitted to come into the field to collect the fruits? Two possible answers are brought. If one vowed to not benefit from another, one cannot lend the other items, lend money or sell to them, neither can one borrow from the other items or money or buy from them.

מתני׳ המודר הנאה מחבירו לפני שביעית אינו יורד לתוך שדהו ואינו אוכל מן הנוטות ובשביעית אינו יורד לתוך שדהו אבל אוכל הוא מן הנטיעות הנוטות נדר הימנו מאכל לפני שביעית יורד לתוך שדהו ואינו אוכל מן הפירות ובשביעית יורד ואוכל:


MISHNA: In the case of one for whom benefit from another is forbidden, before, i.e., a year other than the Sabbatical Year, he may neither enter the field of that other person, nor eat from the produce that leans out of the field, even if he does not enter the field. And during the Sabbatical Year, when the produce of the trees is ownerless, he may not enter his field; however, he may eat from the growths that lean out of the field, as the produce does not belong to the other person. If one vowed before the Sabbatical Year that benefit from another’s food is forbidden for him, he may enter his field; however, he may not eat of the produce. And during the Sabbatical Year, he may enter the field and may eat the produce.


גמ׳ רב ושמואל דאמרי תרוייהו נכסים אלו עליך לפני שביעית אין יורד לתוך שדהו ואינו אוכל מן הנוטות אף על פי שהגיע שביעית ואם בשביעית נדר אין יורד לתוך שדהו אבל אוכל מן הנוטות


GEMARA: It is Rav and Shmuel who both say that if one vowed before the Sabbatical Year: Benefit from this property is forbidden to you, the other may neither enter his field, nor eat from the produce that leans out of the field, even though the Sabbatical Year arrived in the interim, because the prohibition of the produce took effect before the Sabbatical Year and remained in effect after the Sabbatical Year began. And if he vowed during the Sabbatical Year, he may not enter a field that is included in that property; however, he may eat from the produce that leans out of the field, because the produce was ownerless when he vowed.


ורבי יוחנן וריש לקיש דאמרי תרוייהו נכסי עליך לפני שביעית אין יורד לתוך שדהו ואין אוכל מן הנוטות הגיע שביעית אינו יורד לתוך שדהו אבל אוכל הוא את הנוטות


And it is Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish who both say that if one vowed before the Sabbatical Year: Benefit from my property is forbidden to you, the other may neither enter his field nor eat from the produce that leans out of the field. When the Sabbatical Year arrives, he may not enter his field; however, he may eat from the produce that leans out of the field, because the produce is ownerless.


לימא בהא קמיפלגי דרב ושמואל סברי אדם אוסר דבר שברשותו אפילו לכשיצא מרשותו ורבי יוחנן וריש לקיש סברי אין אדם אוסר דבר שברשותו לכשיצא מרשותו


The Gemara suggests: Let us say that they disagree about this, that Rav and Shmuel hold: A person can render an item in his possession forbidden, and the prohibition remains in effect even when it leaves his possession. Since he rendered the produce forbidden before the Sabbatical Year, the prohibition remains in effect after the produce becomes ownerless during the Sabbatical Year. And Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish hold: A person cannot render an item in his possession forbidden and have the prohibition remain in effect when it leaves his possession. Therefore, it is permitted to eat the produce during the Sabbatical Year.


ותסברא מי איכא למאן דאמר אין אדם אוסר דבר שברשותו לכשיצא מרשותו אם כן ניפלגי בנכסים אלו וכל שכן בנכסי


The Gemara asks: And how can you understand it in that manner? Is there anyone who says that a person cannot render an item in his possession forbidden and have the prohibition remain in effect when it leaves his possession? If so, if Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish hold that one cannot do so, let them disagree in the case of one who said: Benefit from this property is forbidden to you, and that would be true all the more so if he said: Benefit from my property is forbidden to you. In the latter case, it is clear that the prohibition remains in effect only as long as the item remains in his possession.


ותו הא תנן דאדם אוסר דבר שברשותו לכשיצא מרשותו דתנן האומר לבנו קונם שאתה נהנה לי מת יירשנו בחייו ובמותו


And furthermore, didn’t we learn in a mishna (Bava Kamma 108b) that a person can render an item in his possession forbidden and the prohibition remains in effect when it leaves his possession? This is as we learned in a mishna, that with regard to one who says to his son: Benefit from my property is konam for you, if the father dies, the son will inherit him. He is not deriving benefit from his father’s property, as after death it is no longer his. If the father vowed to render benefit from his property forbidden to his son during his lifetime and upon his death,


אם מת לא יירשנו שאני הכא דקא אמר ליה בחייו ובמותו


then if the father dies, his son does not inherit from him. Apparently, one can render his property forbidden and have it remain forbidden after it is no longer in his possession. The Gemara rejects that proof: It is different here, as he said to him explicitly: During his lifetime and upon his death. There is no proof that in a case where he did not explicitly extend the prohibition to the period after it leaves his possession, the prohibition would not remain in effect.


מכל מקום קשיא אלא בנכסים אלו כולי עלמא לא פליגי כי פליגי בנכסי


The second question was answered, but in any case the first question remains difficult: Why didn’t Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish disagree in a case where he said: This property, as well? Rather, this is the explanation of their dispute: In the case of one who said: Benefit from this property is forbidden to you, everyone agrees that the prohibition remains in effect even after the item is no longer in his possession. When they disagree, it is in the case of one who said: Benefit from my property is forbidden to you.


רב ושמואל סברי לא שנא נכסים אלו לא שנא נכסי אדם אוסר ורבי יוחנן וריש לקיש סברי נכסים אדם אוסר נכסי אין אדם אוסר


Rav and Shmuel hold: It is no different if he said: This property, and it is no different if he said: My property; in both cases, a person renders an item forbidden and the prohibition remains in effect even after the item is no longer in his possession. And Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish hold: If one said: Property, a person renders an item forbidden and the prohibition remains in effect. However, if he said: My property, a person does not render an item forbidden for the period after it is no longer in his possession, as the phrase my property means property in my possession.


ומי איכא למאן דאמר לא שנא נכסים אלו ולא שנא נכסי והא תנן האומר לחבירו קונם לתוך ביתך שאני נכנס שדך שאני לוקח מת או שמכרו לאחר מותר לבית זה שאני נכנס שדה זו שאני לוקח מת או שמכרו לאחר אסור


The Gemara asks: And is there anyone who says that it is no different if he said: This property, and it is no different if he said: My property, and that the prohibition remains in effect even after the item is no longer in his possession? But didn’t we learn in a mishna (46a): If one says to another: Entering into your house is konam for me, or: Buying your field is konam for me, then if the owner died or sold the property to another, it is permitted for the one who vowed to enter the house or buy the field, as the prohibition is in effect only as long as it belongs to that person. However, if he said: Entering this house is konam for me, or: Buying this field is konam for me, then if the owner died or sold the property to another, it remains forbidden. Apparently, there is a difference between a case where he simply renders an item forbidden and a case where he renders an item belonging to a particular individual forbidden.


אלא כי אמרי רבי יוחנן וריש לקיש בנכסי ורב ושמואל בנכסים אלו ולא פליגי:


Rather, this is the explanation of the statements of the amora’im: When Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish said that the prohibition is no longer in effect after the item is no longer in his possession, it was in a case where he said: My property. And when Rav and Shmuel said that the prohibition remains in effect after the item is no longer in his possession, it was in a case where he said: This property. And they do not disagree, as each pair of amora’im addressed a different situation.


ובשביעית אין יורד לתוך שדהו כו׳: מאי שנא דאוכל מן הנוטות דפירי דהפקירא אינון ארעא נמי אפקרה


We learned in the mishna: And during the Sabbatical Year he may not enter his field; however, he eats from the produce that leans out of the field. The Gemara asks: What is different about the Sabbatical Year that he is permitted to eat of the produce that leans out of the field? It is due to the fact that the produce is ownerless. With regard to land as well, the Torah rendered it ownerless, as during the Sabbatical Year, it is permitted for everyone to enter the field and eat the produce.


אמר עולא בעומדין אילנות על הגבולים רבי שמעון בן אליקים אמר גזירה שמא ישהא בעמידה:


Ulla said: The mishna is referring to a case where the fruit trees are standing on the borders of the field. Since it is possible to eat the produce without entering the field, it is not permitted for him to enter it. Rabbi Shimon ben Elyakim said: Even in a case where the fruit trees are standing in the middle of the field, it is also prohibited for him to enter the field, due to a rabbinic decree lest he remain standing there longer than necessary for purposes of eating, which is prohibited even during the Sabbatical Year.


מתני׳ המודר הנאה מחבירו לא ישאילנו ולא ישאל ממנו לא ילונו ולא ילוה ממנו ולא ימכור לו ולא יקח ממנו:


MISHNA: In the case of one for whom benefit from another is forbidden by vow, that other person may neither lend an item to him nor borrow an item from him. Similarly, he may neither lend money to him nor borrow money from him. And he may neither sell an item to him nor purchase an item from him.


  • Masechet Nedarim is sponsored by Aviva and Benny Adler in honor of our mother Lorraine Kahane and in loving memory of our parents Joseph Kahane z"l, Miriam and Ari Adler z"l.

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Nedarim 42

מתני׳ המודר הנאה מחבירו לפני שביעית אינו יורד לתוך שדהו ואינו אוכל מן הנוטות ובשביעית אינו יורד לתוך שדהו אבל אוכל הוא מן הנטיעות הנוטות נדר הימנו מאכל לפני שביעית יורד לתוך שדהו ואינו אוכל מן הפירות ובשביעית יורד ואוכל:


MISHNA: In the case of one for whom benefit from another is forbidden, before, i.e., a year other than the Sabbatical Year, he may neither enter the field of that other person, nor eat from the produce that leans out of the field, even if he does not enter the field. And during the Sabbatical Year, when the produce of the trees is ownerless, he may not enter his field; however, he may eat from the growths that lean out of the field, as the produce does not belong to the other person. If one vowed before the Sabbatical Year that benefit from another’s food is forbidden for him, he may enter his field; however, he may not eat of the produce. And during the Sabbatical Year, he may enter the field and may eat the produce.


גמ׳ רב ושמואל דאמרי תרוייהו נכסים אלו עליך לפני שביעית אין יורד לתוך שדהו ואינו אוכל מן הנוטות אף על פי שהגיע שביעית ואם בשביעית נדר אין יורד לתוך שדהו אבל אוכל מן הנוטות


GEMARA: It is Rav and Shmuel who both say that if one vowed before the Sabbatical Year: Benefit from this property is forbidden to you, the other may neither enter his field, nor eat from the produce that leans out of the field, even though the Sabbatical Year arrived in the interim, because the prohibition of the produce took effect before the Sabbatical Year and remained in effect after the Sabbatical Year began. And if he vowed during the Sabbatical Year, he may not enter a field that is included in that property; however, he may eat from the produce that leans out of the field, because the produce was ownerless when he vowed.


ורבי יוחנן וריש לקיש דאמרי תרוייהו נכסי עליך לפני שביעית אין יורד לתוך שדהו ואין אוכל מן הנוטות הגיע שביעית אינו יורד לתוך שדהו אבל אוכל הוא את הנוטות


And it is Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish who both say that if one vowed before the Sabbatical Year: Benefit from my property is forbidden to you, the other may neither enter his field nor eat from the produce that leans out of the field. When the Sabbatical Year arrives, he may not enter his field; however, he may eat from the produce that leans out of the field, because the produce is ownerless.


לימא בהא קמיפלגי דרב ושמואל סברי אדם אוסר דבר שברשותו אפילו לכשיצא מרשותו ורבי יוחנן וריש לקיש סברי אין אדם אוסר דבר שברשותו לכשיצא מרשותו


The Gemara suggests: Let us say that they disagree about this, that Rav and Shmuel hold: A person can render an item in his possession forbidden, and the prohibition remains in effect even when it leaves his possession. Since he rendered the produce forbidden before the Sabbatical Year, the prohibition remains in effect after the produce becomes ownerless during the Sabbatical Year. And Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish hold: A person cannot render an item in his possession forbidden and have the prohibition remain in effect when it leaves his possession. Therefore, it is permitted to eat the produce during the Sabbatical Year.


ותסברא מי איכא למאן דאמר אין אדם אוסר דבר שברשותו לכשיצא מרשותו אם כן ניפלגי בנכסים אלו וכל שכן בנכסי


The Gemara asks: And how can you understand it in that manner? Is there anyone who says that a person cannot render an item in his possession forbidden and have the prohibition remain in effect when it leaves his possession? If so, if Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish hold that one cannot do so, let them disagree in the case of one who said: Benefit from this property is forbidden to you, and that would be true all the more so if he said: Benefit from my property is forbidden to you. In the latter case, it is clear that the prohibition remains in effect only as long as the item remains in his possession.


ותו הא תנן דאדם אוסר דבר שברשותו לכשיצא מרשותו דתנן האומר לבנו קונם שאתה נהנה לי מת יירשנו בחייו ובמותו


And furthermore, didn’t we learn in a mishna (Bava Kamma 108b) that a person can render an item in his possession forbidden and the prohibition remains in effect when it leaves his possession? This is as we learned in a mishna, that with regard to one who says to his son: Benefit from my property is konam for you, if the father dies, the son will inherit him. He is not deriving benefit from his father’s property, as after death it is no longer his. If the father vowed to render benefit from his property forbidden to his son during his lifetime and upon his death,


אם מת לא יירשנו שאני הכא דקא אמר ליה בחייו ובמותו


then if the father dies, his son does not inherit from him. Apparently, one can render his property forbidden and have it remain forbidden after it is no longer in his possession. The Gemara rejects that proof: It is different here, as he said to him explicitly: During his lifetime and upon his death. There is no proof that in a case where he did not explicitly extend the prohibition to the period after it leaves his possession, the prohibition would not remain in effect.


מכל מקום קשיא אלא בנכסים אלו כולי עלמא לא פליגי כי פליגי בנכסי


The second question was answered, but in any case the first question remains difficult: Why didn’t Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish disagree in a case where he said: This property, as well? Rather, this is the explanation of their dispute: In the case of one who said: Benefit from this property is forbidden to you, everyone agrees that the prohibition remains in effect even after the item is no longer in his possession. When they disagree, it is in the case of one who said: Benefit from my property is forbidden to you.


רב ושמואל סברי לא שנא נכסים אלו לא שנא נכסי אדם אוסר ורבי יוחנן וריש לקיש סברי נכסים אדם אוסר נכסי אין אדם אוסר


Rav and Shmuel hold: It is no different if he said: This property, and it is no different if he said: My property; in both cases, a person renders an item forbidden and the prohibition remains in effect even after the item is no longer in his possession. And Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish hold: If one said: Property, a person renders an item forbidden and the prohibition remains in effect. However, if he said: My property, a person does not render an item forbidden for the period after it is no longer in his possession, as the phrase my property means property in my possession.


ומי איכא למאן דאמר לא שנא נכסים אלו ולא שנא נכסי והא תנן האומר לחבירו קונם לתוך ביתך שאני נכנס שדך שאני לוקח מת או שמכרו לאחר מותר לבית זה שאני נכנס שדה זו שאני לוקח מת או שמכרו לאחר אסור


The Gemara asks: And is there anyone who says that it is no different if he said: This property, and it is no different if he said: My property, and that the prohibition remains in effect even after the item is no longer in his possession? But didn’t we learn in a mishna (46a): If one says to another: Entering into your house is konam for me, or: Buying your field is konam for me, then if the owner died or sold the property to another, it is permitted for the one who vowed to enter the house or buy the field, as the prohibition is in effect only as long as it belongs to that person. However, if he said: Entering this house is konam for me, or: Buying this field is konam for me, then if the owner died or sold the property to another, it remains forbidden. Apparently, there is a difference between a case where he simply renders an item forbidden and a case where he renders an item belonging to a particular individual forbidden.


אלא כי אמרי רבי יוחנן וריש לקיש בנכסי ורב ושמואל בנכסים אלו ולא פליגי:


Rather, this is the explanation of the statements of the amora’im: When Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish said that the prohibition is no longer in effect after the item is no longer in his possession, it was in a case where he said: My property. And when Rav and Shmuel said that the prohibition remains in effect after the item is no longer in his possession, it was in a case where he said: This property. And they do not disagree, as each pair of amora’im addressed a different situation.


ובשביעית אין יורד לתוך שדהו כו׳: מאי שנא דאוכל מן הנוטות דפירי דהפקירא אינון ארעא נמי אפקרה


We learned in the mishna: And during the Sabbatical Year he may not enter his field; however, he eats from the produce that leans out of the field. The Gemara asks: What is different about the Sabbatical Year that he is permitted to eat of the produce that leans out of the field? It is due to the fact that the produce is ownerless. With regard to land as well, the Torah rendered it ownerless, as during the Sabbatical Year, it is permitted for everyone to enter the field and eat the produce.


אמר עולא בעומדין אילנות על הגבולים רבי שמעון בן אליקים אמר גזירה שמא ישהא בעמידה:


Ulla said: The mishna is referring to a case where the fruit trees are standing on the borders of the field. Since it is possible to eat the produce without entering the field, it is not permitted for him to enter it. Rabbi Shimon ben Elyakim said: Even in a case where the fruit trees are standing in the middle of the field, it is also prohibited for him to enter the field, due to a rabbinic decree lest he remain standing there longer than necessary for purposes of eating, which is prohibited even during the Sabbatical Year.


מתני׳ המודר הנאה מחבירו לא ישאילנו ולא ישאל ממנו לא ילונו ולא ילוה ממנו ולא ימכור לו ולא יקח ממנו:


MISHNA: In the case of one for whom benefit from another is forbidden by vow, that other person may neither lend an item to him nor borrow an item from him. Similarly, he may neither lend money to him nor borrow money from him. And he may neither sell an item to him nor purchase an item from him.


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