The gemara continues to discuss differences between slaughtering and melika (the method used to slaughter birds in the mikdash) and also between slaughtering animals/slaughtering birds.
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Chullin 20
וְאִי סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ מַחְזִיר דַּוְקָא, מַאי אִירְיָא מוֹלֵק? אֲפִילּוּ שׁוֹחֵט נָמֵי! אֶלָּא לָאו שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ אַף מַחְזִיר, וּמַתְנִיתִין בִּדְלָא אַהְדַּר.
And if it enters your mind that the mitzva is specifically to move the simanim behind the nape and pinch them, why did the tanna say specifically that if one pinches in this manner it is valid? Even if one slaughters from the nape in this manner the slaughter would be valid. Rather, must one not conclude from it that the proper understanding is: One may even move the simanim behind the nape and pinch, and the mishna is referring to a case where one did not move the simanim behind the nape.
אָמַר רַבִּי יַנַּאי: יְקַבְּלוּ הָרוֹבִין אֶת תְּשׁוּבָתָן, דְּקָתָנֵי: נִמְצָא כָּשֵׁר בִּשְׁחִיטָה – פָּסוּל בִּמְלִיקָה, כָּשֵׁר בִּמְלִיקָה – פָּסוּל בִּשְׁחִיטָה. לְמַעוֹטֵי מַאי? לָאו לְמַעוֹטֵי מַחֲזִיר סִימָנִין לַאֲחוֹרֵי הָעוֹרֶף, דְּלָא?
Rabbi Yannai says: The young ones [rovin], the sons of Rabbi Ḥiyya, shall receive their response that rejects their statement from that which is taught in the mishna: It is found that that which is valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching and that which is valid for pinching is not valid for slaughter. What does this statement serve to exclude? Does it not serve to exclude the case where one moves the simanim behind the nape, teaching that it is valid only for slaughter and not for pinching?
אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה: לָא, לְמַעוֹטֵי שֵׁן וְצִפּוֹרֶן. שֵׁן וְצִפּוֹרֶן בְּהֶדְיָא קָתָנֵי לְהוּ.
Rabba bar bar Ḥana said: No, perhaps it serves to exclude one who uses a tooth or a fingernail that is not detached, which are valid for pinching and not valid for slaughter. The Gemara objects: That could not be, as the tanna teaches explicitly the case of a tooth and a fingernail in a mishna (15b), and there was no need to repeat it.
אֶלָּא אָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: לְמַעוֹטֵי מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא. הָנִיחָא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה – פָּסוּל, אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר כָּשֵׁר, מַאי אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר? בְּנֵי רַבִּי חִיָּיא סָבְרִי לַהּ כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה – פָּסוּל.
Rather, Rabbi Yirmeya said: The statement of the mishna: That which is valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching, serves to exclude drawing back and forth. One who pinches may not cut the simanim by drawing his fingernail back and forth. Rather, he must press and cut them in one motion. The Gemara asks: This works out well according to the one who says: Drawing back and forth for pinching is not valid, but according to the one who says: It is valid, what is there to say? The Gemara answers: The sons of Rabbi Ḥiyya hold in accordance with the one who says: Drawing back and forth for pinching is not valid.
אָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: מִצְוַת מְלִיקָה קוֹצֵץ וְיוֹרֵד, וְזוֹ הִיא מִצְוָתָהּ. סָבַר רַבִּי אָבִין לְמֵימַר: קוֹצֵץ וְיוֹרֵד – אִין, מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא – לָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: כׇּל שֶׁכֵּן דְּמוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה כָּשֵׁר, וּמַאי זוֹ הִיא מִצְוָתָהּ? אֵימָא: אַף זוֹ הִיא מִצְוָתָהּ.
Rav Kahana says: The mitzva of pinching is that one cuts with his fingernail from the nape and continues downward, and that is its mitzva. Rabbi Avin thought to say: Cuts and continues downward, yes; draws back and forth, no. Rabbi Yirmeya said to him: All the more so that drawing back and forth for pinching is valid. The Gemara asks: And what is the meaning of the phrase: That is its mitzva, which indicates that it is specifically in that manner? The Gemara answers: Say that it means: That too is its mitzva.
אָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: כׇּל הַכָּשֵׁר בִּשְׁחִיטָה – כְּנֶגְדּוֹ בָּעוֹרֶף כָּשֵׁר בִּמְלִיקָה, הָא פָּסוּל בִּשְׁחִיטָה – פָּסוּל בִּמְלִיקָה. לְמַעוֹטֵי מַאי? אִילֵּימָא לְמַעוֹטֵי עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין, וְהָא תָּנֵי רָמֵי בַּר יְחֶזְקֵאל: אֵין עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין בָּעוֹף!
§ Rabbi Yirmeya says that Shmuel says: Any place that is valid for slaughter on the throat is correspondingly valid for pinching on the nape. By inference, any place on the throat that is not valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching. The Gemara asks: What does this statement serve to exclude? If we say that it serves to exclude ripping the simanim from their place before cutting them, which is invalid with regard to pinching just as with regard to slaughter, but didn’t Rami bar Yeḥezkel teach: There is no disqualification of ripping the simanim in the case of a bird?
אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא: לְמַעוֹטֵי רֹאשׁוֹ. רֹאשׁוֹ פְּשִׁיטָא? ״מִמּוּל עׇרְפּוֹ״ אָמַר רַחֲמָנָא, וְלֹא בְּרֹאשׁוֹ!
Rav Pappa said: It serves to exclude pinching the occipital bone at the back of its head; just as it is not the place of slaughter, it is not the place of pinching. The Gemara asks: Isn’t it obvious that pinching at the back of its head is not valid? The Merciful One states: “Adjacent to its nape,” and not at its head.
מַאי ״רֹאשׁוֹ״? שִׁיפּוּי רֹאשׁוֹ, כְּגוֹן דְּנָקֵט מִשִּׁיפּוּי רֹאשׁוֹ וְהִגְרִים וַאֲזַל עַד דִּמְטָא תַּתַּאי, וְכִדְרַב הוּנָא אָמַר רַב אַסִּי, דְּאָמַר רַב הוּנָא אָמַר רַב אַסִּי: הִגְרִים שְׁלִישׁ וְשָׁחַט שְׁנֵי שְׁלִישׁ – פְּסוּלָה.
The Gemara answers: What is its head that is not the place for pinching? It is the incline of its head, e.g., in a case where one began at the incline of its head and diverted and continued until he reached below to the place of the simanim, where he completed the pinching. Since he began the process in the incorrect location, it is invalid, similar to slaughter. And this is in accordance with the opinion that Rav Huna says that Rav Asi says, as Rav Huna says that Rav Asi says: If one diverted the knife upward and cut one-third of the windpipe and then cut two-thirds within the ring, the slaughter is not valid.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב אַחָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרָבָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי: הָא דְּתָנֵי רָמֵי בַּר יְחֶזְקֵאל אֵין עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין בָּעוֹף, לָא אֲמַרַן אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר אֵין שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה,
Rav Aḥa, son of Rava, said to Rav Ashi: With regard to that which Rami bar Yeḥezkel teaches: There is no disqualification for ripping simanim in a bird, we say it only according to the one who says: There is no source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah.
אֲבָל לְמַאן דְּאָמַר יֵשׁ שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה, יֵשׁ עִיקּוּר.
But according to the one who says: There is a source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah, there is disqualification for ripping simanim in a bird as well.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַדְּרַבָּה, אִיפְּכָא מִסְתַּבְּרָא! לְמַאן דְּאָמַר יֵשׁ שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה, אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר דְּהָכִי אַגְמְרֵיהּ דְּאֵין עִיקּוּר, וַאֲפִילּוּ לְמַאן דְּאָמַר כִּבְהֵמָה, לְעִנְיַן עִיקּוּר לָא לֶיהֱוֵי כִּבְהֵמָה.
Rav Ashi said to him: On the contrary, the opposite is reasonable. According to the one who says: There is a source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah, the halakhot of slaughter are not explicit and were transmitted to Moses orally, and it can be said that this is what God taught him, that there is no disqualification for ripping simanim. And even according to the one who says that the halakhic status of a bird is like that of an animal, as the halakhot of the slaughter of a bird are derived from the halakhot of the slaughter of an animal, perhaps God taught Moses that with regard to the matter of ripping simanim it will not be like an animal.
אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר: אֵין שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה אֶלָּא מִדִּבְרֵי סוֹפְרִים, מֵהֵיכָא גְּמִירִי לַהּ? מִבְּהֵמָה, כּוּלַּהּ מִילְּתָא כִּבְהֵמָה!
But according to the one who says: There is no source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah, but rather it is by rabbinic law, from where are the halakhot of the slaughter of a bird learned? They are learned from the halakhot of the slaughter of an animal; consequently, the entire matter of the slaughter of a bird is like that of an animal.
אָמַר רָבִינָא, אָמַר לִי רָבִין בַּר קִיסִי: הָא דְּתָנֵי רָמֵי בַּר יְחֶזְקֵאל, אֵין עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין בָּעוֹף – לָא אֲמַרַן אֶלָּא בִּמְלִיקָה, אֲבָל בִּשְׁחִיטָה יֵשׁ עִיקּוּר. וְהָאָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: כׇּל הַכָּשֵׁר בִּשְׁחִיטָה כְּנֶגְדּוֹ בָּעוֹרֶף כָּשֵׁר בִּמְלִיקָה, הָא פָּסוּל – פָּסוּל! הָהִיא פְּלִיגָא.
Ravina said: Ravin bar Kisi said to me: With regard to that which Rami bar Yeḥezkel teaches, i.e., that there is no disqualification for ripping simanim in a bird, we say it only with regard to pinching, but with regard to slaughter, there is disqualification for ripping simanim. The Gemara objects: But doesn’t Rabbi Yirmeya say that Shmuel says: Any place that is valid for slaughter on the throat is correspondingly valid for pinching on the nape, but that which is not valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching. The Gemara explains: That halakha disagrees with this statement of Shmuel.
אָמַר זְעֵירִי: נִשְׁבְּרָה מַפְרֶקֶת וְרוֹב בָּשָׂר עִמָּהּ – נְבֵלָה.
§ Ze’eiri says: If the neck bone of an animal or a bird was broken and most of the surrounding flesh was cut with it, the status of the animal or the bird is that of an unslaughtered carcass. It is dead and can no longer be rendered fit by slaughter.
אָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: אַף אֲנַן נָמֵי תְּנֵינָא, מָלַק בְּסַכִּין – מְטַמֵּא בְּגָדִים אַבֵּית הַבְּלִיעָה, וְאִי אָמְרַתְּ טְרֵפָה הָוְיָא, מְלִיקָתָהּ זוֹ הִיא שְׁחִיטָתָהּ – תַּהֲנֵי לַהּ סַכִּין לְטַהֲרָהּ מִידֵי נְבֵלָה.
Rav Ḥisda said that we learn this in a mishna (Zevaḥim 68a) as well: If one pinched a bird offering with a knife and not with his thumbnail, the bird renders the garments of one who swallows it impure when it is in the throat, which is the halakha in the case of an unslaughtered carcass of a kosher bird. And if you would say that if the neck bone of an animal or a bird was broken and most of the surrounding flesh was cut with it, the bird is not an unslaughtered carcass but it is a tereifa, then since with regard to a bird offering its pinching is its slaughter, let pinching with a knife be effective to purify the bird from the impurity of an unslaughtered carcass, as a tereifa does not transmit impurity when slaughtered properly. From the halakha that pinching with a knife does not render the bird pure it is evident that when its neck bone is broken the bird is rendered an unslaughtered carcass.
אָמְרִי: הָתָם מִשּׁוּם דְּלָאו שְׁחִיטָה הִיא כְּלָל. מַאי טַעְמָא? רַב הוּנָא אָמַר: מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא מַחְלִיד, רָבָא אָמַר: מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא דּוֹרֵס.
The Sages say in response: There, pinching with a knife is ineffective in rendering it pure not because the breaking of the neck bone renders the bird an unslaughtered carcass. Rather, it is because it is not slaughter at all. The Gemara asks: What is the reason? Rav Huna says: It is because he conceals the knife and performs an inverted slaughter, which invalidates the slaughter. Rava says: It is because he presses the knife.
מַאן דְּאָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא מַחְלִיד, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא דּוֹרֵס? קָסָבַר: מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה כָּשֵׁר. וּמַאן דְּאָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא דּוֹרֵס, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא מַחְלִיד? אָמַר לָךְ: חֲלָדָה הֵיכִי דָּמֵי? כְּחוּלְדָּה הַדָּרָה בְּעִיקְּרֵי בָתִּים דְּמִכַּסְּיָא, הָכָא הָא מִיגַּלְּיָא.
The Gemara asks: With regard to the one who says: Because he conceals the knife and performs an inverted slaughter, what is the reason that he does not say: Because he presses the knife? The Gemara answers: It is because he holds that drawing back and forth in pinching is valid. The Gemara asks: And the one who says: Because he presses the knife, what is the reason that he does not say: Because he conceals [maḥlid] the knife? The Gemara answers that he could have said to you: What are the circumstances of concealing the knife? It is like a rat [ḥulda] that resides in the foundations of houses that are concealed. Here, when he begins cutting from the nape of the neck, that knife is exposed.
אָמַר רָבָא: אִי קַשְׁיָא לִי הָא קַשְׁיָא לִי, וְכִי מֵתָה עוֹמֵד וּמוֹלֵק?
Rava said: If that which Ze’eiri said: If the neck bone of an animal or a bird was broken and most of the surrounding flesh was cut with it, the status of the animal or the bird is that of an unslaughtered carcass, is difficult for me, this is difficult for me: How does pinching a bird offering prepare it for sacrifice? Since pinching involves breaking the neck bone and cutting most of the surrounding flesh with it before cutting the simanim, what significance is there to pinching the simanim? And does he stand and pinch a dead bird? If it is dead, of what use is the pinching?
אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וְתִקְשֵׁי לָךְ עוֹלַת הָעוֹף, דְּבָעֲיָא שְׁנֵי סִימָנִין, וְכִי מֵתָה עוֹמֵד וּמוֹלֵק? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָתָם כְּדֵי לְקַיֵּים בָּהּ מִצְוַת הַבְדָּלָה.
Abaye said to him: And even without the statement of Ze’eiri, let the case of a bird burnt offering be difficult for you, as it requires cutting of two simanim. Since slaughter of a non-sacred bird requires cutting of one siman, once one siman is cut the bird is considered dead for all intents and purposes, and does he stand and pinch a dead bird? Rava said to him: There, he continues pinching in order to fulfill through it the mitzva of separation between the head and the body in the bird burnt offering.
אִי הָכִי, עוֹר נָמֵי! כׇּל הַמְעַכֵּב בִּשְׁחִיטָה מְעַכֵּב בְּהַבְדָּלָה, וְכֹל שֶׁאֵינוֹ מְעַכֵּב בִּשְׁחִיטָה אֵינוֹ מְעַכֵּב בְּהַבְדָּלָה.
The Gemara asks: If so, there should be an obligation to cut the skin of the bird as well in order to fulfill the mitzva of separation. Abaye answers: Any element that invalidates slaughter invalidates separation, and any element that does not invalidate slaughter does not invalidate separation. Failure to cut the skin does not invalidate slaughter.
וְהָא מִיעוּט סִימָנִין לְרַבָּנַן, דְּלָא מִעַכְּבִי בִּשְׁחִיטָה, וּמְעַכְּבִי בְּהַבְדָּלָה! אֶלָּא אֵימָא: כֹּל שֶׁיֶּשְׁנוֹ בִּשְׁחִיטָה יֶשְׁנוֹ בְּהַבְדָּלָה, וְכֹל שֶׁאֵינוֹ בִּשְׁחִיטָה אֵינוֹ בְּהַבְדָּלָה.
The Gemara objects: But isn’t there the minority of the simanim according to the Rabbis, which do not invalidate slaughter, as, if one slaughtered a majority of the simanim and a minority remained uncut, the slaughter is valid, and they hold that they invalidate separation? The Gemara clarifies: Rather, say: Any element that is in effect with regard to slaughter is in effect with regard to separation, and any element that is not in effect with regard to slaughter is not in effect with regard to separation. The two simanim, although they do not invalidate slaughter, are part of the mitzva of slaughter, while the skin is not part of the mitzva of slaughter.
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The Hadran Women’s Tapestry
Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories.
I started learning daf yomi at the beginning of this cycle. As the pandemic evolved, it’s been so helpful to me to have this discipline every morning to listen to the daf podcast after I’ve read the daf; learning about the relationships between the rabbis and the ways they were constructing our Jewish religion after the destruction of the Temple. I’m grateful to be on this journey!
Mona Fishbane
Teaneck NJ, United States
I had dreamed of doing daf yomi since I had my first serious Talmud class 18 years ago at Pardes with Rahel Berkovitz, and then a couple of summers with Leah Rosenthal. There is no way I would be able to do it without another wonderful teacher, Michelle, and the Hadran organization. I wake up and am excited to start each day with the next daf.
Beth Elster
Irvine, United States
Michelle has been an inspiration for years, but I only really started this cycle after the moving and uplifting siyum in Jerusalem. It’s been an wonderful to learn and relearn the tenets of our religion and to understand how the extraordinary efforts of a band of people to preserve Judaism after the fall of the beit hamikdash is still bearing fruits today. I’m proud to be part of the chain!
Judith Weil
Raanana, Israel
It has been a pleasure keeping pace with this wonderful and scholarly group of women.
Janice Block
Beit Shemesh, Israel
See video
Susan Fisher
Raanana, Israel
A beautiful world of Talmudic sages now fill my daily life with discussion and debate.
bringing alive our traditions and texts that has brought new meaning to my life.
I am a מגילת אסתר reader for women . the words in the Mishna of מסכת megillah 17a
הקורא את המגילה למפרע לא יצא were powerful to me.
I hope to have the zchut to complete the cycle for my 70th birthday.
Sheila Hauser
Jerusalem, Israel
Robin Zeiger
Tel Aviv, Israel
My Daf journey began in August 2012 after participating in the Siyum Hashas where I was blessed as an “enabler” of others. Galvanized into my own learning I recited the Hadran on Shas in January 2020 with Rabbanit Michelle. That Siyum was a highlight in my life. Now, on round two, Daf has become my spiritual anchor to which I attribute manifold blessings.
Rina Goldberg
Englewood NJ, United States
I started learning on January 5, 2020. When I complete the 7+ year cycle I will be 70 years old. I had been intimidated by those who said that I needed to study Talmud in a traditional way with a chevruta, but I decided the learning was more important to me than the method. Thankful for Daf Yomi for Women helping me catch up when I fall behind, and also being able to celebrate with each Siyum!
Pamela Elisheva
Bakersfield, United States
In July, 2012 I wrote for Tablet about the first all women’s siyum at Matan in Jerusalem, with 100 women. At the time, I thought, I would like to start with the next cycle – listening to a podcast at different times of day makes it possible. It is incredible that after 10 years, so many women are so engaged!
Beth Kissileff
Pittsburgh, United States
My family recently made Aliyah, because we believe the next chapter in the story of the Jewish people is being written here, and we want to be a part of it. Daf Yomi, on the other hand, connects me BACK, to those who wrote earlier chapters thousands of years ago. So, I feel like I’m living in the middle of this epic story. I’m learning how it all began, and looking ahead to see where it goes!
Tina Lamm
Jerusalem, Israel
I attended the Siyum so that I could tell my granddaughter that I had been there. Then I decided to listen on Spotify and after the siyum of Brachot, Covid and zoom began. It gave structure to my day. I learn with people from all over the world who are now my friends – yet most of us have never met. I can’t imagine life without it. Thank you Rabbanit Michelle.
Emma Rinberg
Raanana, Israel
When I began learning Daf Yomi at the beginning of the current cycle, I was preparing for an upcoming surgery and thought that learning the Daf would be something positive I could do each day during my recovery, even if I accomplished nothing else. I had no idea what a lifeline learning the Daf would turn out to be in so many ways.
Laura Shechter
Lexington, MA, United States
After all the hype on the 2020 siyum I became inspired by a friend to begin learning as the new cycle began.with no background in studying Talmud it was a bit daunting in the beginning. my husband began at the same time so we decided to study on shabbat together. The reaction from my 3 daughters has been fantastic. They are very proud. It’s been a great challenge for my brain which is so healthy!
Stacey Goodstein Ashtamker
Modi’in, Israel
I decided to learn one masechet, Brachot, but quickly fell in love and never stopped! It has been great, everyone is always asking how it’s going and chering me on, and my students are always making sure I did the day’s daf.
Yafit Fishbach
Memphis, Tennessee, United States
At almost 70 I am just beginning my journey with Talmud and Hadran. I began not late, but right when I was called to learn. It is never too late to begin! The understanding patience of staff and participants with more experience and knowledge has been fabulous. The joy of learning never stops and for me. It is a new life, a new light, a new depth of love of The Holy One, Blessed be He.
Deborah Hoffman-Wade
Richmond, CA, United States
Attending the Siyyum in Jerusalem 26 months ago inspired me to become part of this community of learners. So many aspects of Jewish life have been illuminated by what we have learned in Seder Moed. My day is not complete without daf Yomi. I am so grateful to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Community.
Nancy Kolodny
Newton, United States
When I started studying Hebrew at Brown University’s Hillel, I had no idea that almost 38 years later, I’m doing Daf Yomi. My Shabbat haburah is led by Rabbanit Leah Sarna. The women are a hoot. I’m tracking the completion of each tractate by reading Ilana Kurshan’s memoir, If All the Seas Were Ink.
Hannah Lee
Pennsylvania, United States
Shortly after the death of my father, David Malik z”l, I made the commitment to Daf Yomi. While riding to Ben Gurion airport in January, Siyum HaShas was playing on the radio; that was the nudge I needed to get started. The “everyday-ness” of the Daf has been a meaningful spiritual practice, especial after COVID began & I was temporarily unable to say Kaddish at daily in-person minyanim.
Lisa S. Malik
Wynnewood, United States
A friend mentioned that she was starting Daf Yomi in January 2020. I had heard of it and thought, why not? I decided to try it – go day by day and not think about the seven plus year commitment. Fast forward today, over two years in and I can’t imagine my life without Daf Yomi. It’s part of my morning ritual. If I have a busy day ahead of me I set my alarm to get up early to finish the day’s daf
Debbie Fitzerman
Ontario, Canada
Chullin 20
וְאִי סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ מַחְזִיר דַּוְקָא, מַאי אִירְיָא מוֹלֵק? אֲפִילּוּ שׁוֹחֵט נָמֵי! אֶלָּא לָאו שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ אַף מַחְזִיר, וּמַתְנִיתִין בִּדְלָא אַהְדַּר.
And if it enters your mind that the mitzva is specifically to move the simanim behind the nape and pinch them, why did the tanna say specifically that if one pinches in this manner it is valid? Even if one slaughters from the nape in this manner the slaughter would be valid. Rather, must one not conclude from it that the proper understanding is: One may even move the simanim behind the nape and pinch, and the mishna is referring to a case where one did not move the simanim behind the nape.
אָמַר רַבִּי יַנַּאי: יְקַבְּלוּ הָרוֹבִין אֶת תְּשׁוּבָתָן, דְּקָתָנֵי: נִמְצָא כָּשֵׁר בִּשְׁחִיטָה – פָּסוּל בִּמְלִיקָה, כָּשֵׁר בִּמְלִיקָה – פָּסוּל בִּשְׁחִיטָה. לְמַעוֹטֵי מַאי? לָאו לְמַעוֹטֵי מַחֲזִיר סִימָנִין לַאֲחוֹרֵי הָעוֹרֶף, דְּלָא?
Rabbi Yannai says: The young ones [rovin], the sons of Rabbi Ḥiyya, shall receive their response that rejects their statement from that which is taught in the mishna: It is found that that which is valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching and that which is valid for pinching is not valid for slaughter. What does this statement serve to exclude? Does it not serve to exclude the case where one moves the simanim behind the nape, teaching that it is valid only for slaughter and not for pinching?
אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה: לָא, לְמַעוֹטֵי שֵׁן וְצִפּוֹרֶן. שֵׁן וְצִפּוֹרֶן בְּהֶדְיָא קָתָנֵי לְהוּ.
Rabba bar bar Ḥana said: No, perhaps it serves to exclude one who uses a tooth or a fingernail that is not detached, which are valid for pinching and not valid for slaughter. The Gemara objects: That could not be, as the tanna teaches explicitly the case of a tooth and a fingernail in a mishna (15b), and there was no need to repeat it.
אֶלָּא אָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: לְמַעוֹטֵי מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא. הָנִיחָא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה – פָּסוּל, אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר כָּשֵׁר, מַאי אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר? בְּנֵי רַבִּי חִיָּיא סָבְרִי לַהּ כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה – פָּסוּל.
Rather, Rabbi Yirmeya said: The statement of the mishna: That which is valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching, serves to exclude drawing back and forth. One who pinches may not cut the simanim by drawing his fingernail back and forth. Rather, he must press and cut them in one motion. The Gemara asks: This works out well according to the one who says: Drawing back and forth for pinching is not valid, but according to the one who says: It is valid, what is there to say? The Gemara answers: The sons of Rabbi Ḥiyya hold in accordance with the one who says: Drawing back and forth for pinching is not valid.
אָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: מִצְוַת מְלִיקָה קוֹצֵץ וְיוֹרֵד, וְזוֹ הִיא מִצְוָתָהּ. סָבַר רַבִּי אָבִין לְמֵימַר: קוֹצֵץ וְיוֹרֵד – אִין, מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא – לָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: כׇּל שֶׁכֵּן דְּמוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה כָּשֵׁר, וּמַאי זוֹ הִיא מִצְוָתָהּ? אֵימָא: אַף זוֹ הִיא מִצְוָתָהּ.
Rav Kahana says: The mitzva of pinching is that one cuts with his fingernail from the nape and continues downward, and that is its mitzva. Rabbi Avin thought to say: Cuts and continues downward, yes; draws back and forth, no. Rabbi Yirmeya said to him: All the more so that drawing back and forth for pinching is valid. The Gemara asks: And what is the meaning of the phrase: That is its mitzva, which indicates that it is specifically in that manner? The Gemara answers: Say that it means: That too is its mitzva.
אָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: כׇּל הַכָּשֵׁר בִּשְׁחִיטָה – כְּנֶגְדּוֹ בָּעוֹרֶף כָּשֵׁר בִּמְלִיקָה, הָא פָּסוּל בִּשְׁחִיטָה – פָּסוּל בִּמְלִיקָה. לְמַעוֹטֵי מַאי? אִילֵּימָא לְמַעוֹטֵי עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין, וְהָא תָּנֵי רָמֵי בַּר יְחֶזְקֵאל: אֵין עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין בָּעוֹף!
§ Rabbi Yirmeya says that Shmuel says: Any place that is valid for slaughter on the throat is correspondingly valid for pinching on the nape. By inference, any place on the throat that is not valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching. The Gemara asks: What does this statement serve to exclude? If we say that it serves to exclude ripping the simanim from their place before cutting them, which is invalid with regard to pinching just as with regard to slaughter, but didn’t Rami bar Yeḥezkel teach: There is no disqualification of ripping the simanim in the case of a bird?
אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא: לְמַעוֹטֵי רֹאשׁוֹ. רֹאשׁוֹ פְּשִׁיטָא? ״מִמּוּל עׇרְפּוֹ״ אָמַר רַחֲמָנָא, וְלֹא בְּרֹאשׁוֹ!
Rav Pappa said: It serves to exclude pinching the occipital bone at the back of its head; just as it is not the place of slaughter, it is not the place of pinching. The Gemara asks: Isn’t it obvious that pinching at the back of its head is not valid? The Merciful One states: “Adjacent to its nape,” and not at its head.
מַאי ״רֹאשׁוֹ״? שִׁיפּוּי רֹאשׁוֹ, כְּגוֹן דְּנָקֵט מִשִּׁיפּוּי רֹאשׁוֹ וְהִגְרִים וַאֲזַל עַד דִּמְטָא תַּתַּאי, וְכִדְרַב הוּנָא אָמַר רַב אַסִּי, דְּאָמַר רַב הוּנָא אָמַר רַב אַסִּי: הִגְרִים שְׁלִישׁ וְשָׁחַט שְׁנֵי שְׁלִישׁ – פְּסוּלָה.
The Gemara answers: What is its head that is not the place for pinching? It is the incline of its head, e.g., in a case where one began at the incline of its head and diverted and continued until he reached below to the place of the simanim, where he completed the pinching. Since he began the process in the incorrect location, it is invalid, similar to slaughter. And this is in accordance with the opinion that Rav Huna says that Rav Asi says, as Rav Huna says that Rav Asi says: If one diverted the knife upward and cut one-third of the windpipe and then cut two-thirds within the ring, the slaughter is not valid.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב אַחָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרָבָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי: הָא דְּתָנֵי רָמֵי בַּר יְחֶזְקֵאל אֵין עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין בָּעוֹף, לָא אֲמַרַן אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר אֵין שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה,
Rav Aḥa, son of Rava, said to Rav Ashi: With regard to that which Rami bar Yeḥezkel teaches: There is no disqualification for ripping simanim in a bird, we say it only according to the one who says: There is no source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah.
אֲבָל לְמַאן דְּאָמַר יֵשׁ שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה, יֵשׁ עִיקּוּר.
But according to the one who says: There is a source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah, there is disqualification for ripping simanim in a bird as well.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַדְּרַבָּה, אִיפְּכָא מִסְתַּבְּרָא! לְמַאן דְּאָמַר יֵשׁ שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה, אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר דְּהָכִי אַגְמְרֵיהּ דְּאֵין עִיקּוּר, וַאֲפִילּוּ לְמַאן דְּאָמַר כִּבְהֵמָה, לְעִנְיַן עִיקּוּר לָא לֶיהֱוֵי כִּבְהֵמָה.
Rav Ashi said to him: On the contrary, the opposite is reasonable. According to the one who says: There is a source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah, the halakhot of slaughter are not explicit and were transmitted to Moses orally, and it can be said that this is what God taught him, that there is no disqualification for ripping simanim. And even according to the one who says that the halakhic status of a bird is like that of an animal, as the halakhot of the slaughter of a bird are derived from the halakhot of the slaughter of an animal, perhaps God taught Moses that with regard to the matter of ripping simanim it will not be like an animal.
אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר: אֵין שְׁחִיטָה לָעוֹף מִן הַתּוֹרָה אֶלָּא מִדִּבְרֵי סוֹפְרִים, מֵהֵיכָא גְּמִירִי לַהּ? מִבְּהֵמָה, כּוּלַּהּ מִילְּתָא כִּבְהֵמָה!
But according to the one who says: There is no source for the slaughter of a bird in the Torah, but rather it is by rabbinic law, from where are the halakhot of the slaughter of a bird learned? They are learned from the halakhot of the slaughter of an animal; consequently, the entire matter of the slaughter of a bird is like that of an animal.
אָמַר רָבִינָא, אָמַר לִי רָבִין בַּר קִיסִי: הָא דְּתָנֵי רָמֵי בַּר יְחֶזְקֵאל, אֵין עִיקּוּר סִימָנִין בָּעוֹף – לָא אֲמַרַן אֶלָּא בִּמְלִיקָה, אֲבָל בִּשְׁחִיטָה יֵשׁ עִיקּוּר. וְהָאָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: כׇּל הַכָּשֵׁר בִּשְׁחִיטָה כְּנֶגְדּוֹ בָּעוֹרֶף כָּשֵׁר בִּמְלִיקָה, הָא פָּסוּל – פָּסוּל! הָהִיא פְּלִיגָא.
Ravina said: Ravin bar Kisi said to me: With regard to that which Rami bar Yeḥezkel teaches, i.e., that there is no disqualification for ripping simanim in a bird, we say it only with regard to pinching, but with regard to slaughter, there is disqualification for ripping simanim. The Gemara objects: But doesn’t Rabbi Yirmeya say that Shmuel says: Any place that is valid for slaughter on the throat is correspondingly valid for pinching on the nape, but that which is not valid for slaughter is not valid for pinching. The Gemara explains: That halakha disagrees with this statement of Shmuel.
אָמַר זְעֵירִי: נִשְׁבְּרָה מַפְרֶקֶת וְרוֹב בָּשָׂר עִמָּהּ – נְבֵלָה.
§ Ze’eiri says: If the neck bone of an animal or a bird was broken and most of the surrounding flesh was cut with it, the status of the animal or the bird is that of an unslaughtered carcass. It is dead and can no longer be rendered fit by slaughter.
אָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: אַף אֲנַן נָמֵי תְּנֵינָא, מָלַק בְּסַכִּין – מְטַמֵּא בְּגָדִים אַבֵּית הַבְּלִיעָה, וְאִי אָמְרַתְּ טְרֵפָה הָוְיָא, מְלִיקָתָהּ זוֹ הִיא שְׁחִיטָתָהּ – תַּהֲנֵי לַהּ סַכִּין לְטַהֲרָהּ מִידֵי נְבֵלָה.
Rav Ḥisda said that we learn this in a mishna (Zevaḥim 68a) as well: If one pinched a bird offering with a knife and not with his thumbnail, the bird renders the garments of one who swallows it impure when it is in the throat, which is the halakha in the case of an unslaughtered carcass of a kosher bird. And if you would say that if the neck bone of an animal or a bird was broken and most of the surrounding flesh was cut with it, the bird is not an unslaughtered carcass but it is a tereifa, then since with regard to a bird offering its pinching is its slaughter, let pinching with a knife be effective to purify the bird from the impurity of an unslaughtered carcass, as a tereifa does not transmit impurity when slaughtered properly. From the halakha that pinching with a knife does not render the bird pure it is evident that when its neck bone is broken the bird is rendered an unslaughtered carcass.
אָמְרִי: הָתָם מִשּׁוּם דְּלָאו שְׁחִיטָה הִיא כְּלָל. מַאי טַעְמָא? רַב הוּנָא אָמַר: מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא מַחְלִיד, רָבָא אָמַר: מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא דּוֹרֵס.
The Sages say in response: There, pinching with a knife is ineffective in rendering it pure not because the breaking of the neck bone renders the bird an unslaughtered carcass. Rather, it is because it is not slaughter at all. The Gemara asks: What is the reason? Rav Huna says: It is because he conceals the knife and performs an inverted slaughter, which invalidates the slaughter. Rava says: It is because he presses the knife.
מַאן דְּאָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא מַחְלִיד, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא דּוֹרֵס? קָסָבַר: מוֹלִיךְ וּמֵבִיא בִּמְלִיקָה כָּשֵׁר. וּמַאן דְּאָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא דּוֹרֵס, מַאי טַעְמָא לָא אָמַר מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהוּא מַחְלִיד? אָמַר לָךְ: חֲלָדָה הֵיכִי דָּמֵי? כְּחוּלְדָּה הַדָּרָה בְּעִיקְּרֵי בָתִּים דְּמִכַּסְּיָא, הָכָא הָא מִיגַּלְּיָא.
The Gemara asks: With regard to the one who says: Because he conceals the knife and performs an inverted slaughter, what is the reason that he does not say: Because he presses the knife? The Gemara answers: It is because he holds that drawing back and forth in pinching is valid. The Gemara asks: And the one who says: Because he presses the knife, what is the reason that he does not say: Because he conceals [maḥlid] the knife? The Gemara answers that he could have said to you: What are the circumstances of concealing the knife? It is like a rat [ḥulda] that resides in the foundations of houses that are concealed. Here, when he begins cutting from the nape of the neck, that knife is exposed.
אָמַר רָבָא: אִי קַשְׁיָא לִי הָא קַשְׁיָא לִי, וְכִי מֵתָה עוֹמֵד וּמוֹלֵק?
Rava said: If that which Ze’eiri said: If the neck bone of an animal or a bird was broken and most of the surrounding flesh was cut with it, the status of the animal or the bird is that of an unslaughtered carcass, is difficult for me, this is difficult for me: How does pinching a bird offering prepare it for sacrifice? Since pinching involves breaking the neck bone and cutting most of the surrounding flesh with it before cutting the simanim, what significance is there to pinching the simanim? And does he stand and pinch a dead bird? If it is dead, of what use is the pinching?
אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וְתִקְשֵׁי לָךְ עוֹלַת הָעוֹף, דְּבָעֲיָא שְׁנֵי סִימָנִין, וְכִי מֵתָה עוֹמֵד וּמוֹלֵק? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָתָם כְּדֵי לְקַיֵּים בָּהּ מִצְוַת הַבְדָּלָה.
Abaye said to him: And even without the statement of Ze’eiri, let the case of a bird burnt offering be difficult for you, as it requires cutting of two simanim. Since slaughter of a non-sacred bird requires cutting of one siman, once one siman is cut the bird is considered dead for all intents and purposes, and does he stand and pinch a dead bird? Rava said to him: There, he continues pinching in order to fulfill through it the mitzva of separation between the head and the body in the bird burnt offering.
אִי הָכִי, עוֹר נָמֵי! כׇּל הַמְעַכֵּב בִּשְׁחִיטָה מְעַכֵּב בְּהַבְדָּלָה, וְכֹל שֶׁאֵינוֹ מְעַכֵּב בִּשְׁחִיטָה אֵינוֹ מְעַכֵּב בְּהַבְדָּלָה.
The Gemara asks: If so, there should be an obligation to cut the skin of the bird as well in order to fulfill the mitzva of separation. Abaye answers: Any element that invalidates slaughter invalidates separation, and any element that does not invalidate slaughter does not invalidate separation. Failure to cut the skin does not invalidate slaughter.
וְהָא מִיעוּט סִימָנִין לְרַבָּנַן, דְּלָא מִעַכְּבִי בִּשְׁחִיטָה, וּמְעַכְּבִי בְּהַבְדָּלָה! אֶלָּא אֵימָא: כֹּל שֶׁיֶּשְׁנוֹ בִּשְׁחִיטָה יֶשְׁנוֹ בְּהַבְדָּלָה, וְכֹל שֶׁאֵינוֹ בִּשְׁחִיטָה אֵינוֹ בְּהַבְדָּלָה.
The Gemara objects: But isn’t there the minority of the simanim according to the Rabbis, which do not invalidate slaughter, as, if one slaughtered a majority of the simanim and a minority remained uncut, the slaughter is valid, and they hold that they invalidate separation? The Gemara clarifies: Rather, say: Any element that is in effect with regard to slaughter is in effect with regard to separation, and any element that is not in effect with regard to slaughter is not in effect with regard to separation. The two simanim, although they do not invalidate slaughter, are part of the mitzva of slaughter, while the skin is not part of the mitzva of slaughter.
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